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Post by smallthorner on Jul 15, 2020 22:22:50 GMT
He isn't good enough to take us up. Trusting Scholes and JC to appoint a progressive new manager is a different issue altogether. Clubs with ambition in this day and age wouldn't bat an eyelid at the decision to sack him at season end. If you want stability and two seasons in the Chanpionship then Michael's your man. If you want a genuine push for the promised land then you need a progressive foreign coach. That's my opinion. Cheers Each to their own. A coach not knowing the league (O'Neill not a seasoned championship manager but knows the british game) does not always mean success whether or an ambitious manager from abroad or british (mad nath) types. At this moment in time we need stabilise rather than another gamble on black or red even if it means a boring steps forward, we have gambled outside the box too much in recent years. The only "gamble" we made was Nathan. He was a new manager from a lower league. Maybe good new philosophy of playing but weak as piss on the management side. Rowett was a steady Eddie but couldn't handle the pressure. If our club is going to get back into the premiership then we've got to change our footballing mentality and our structure of acquisitions. As long as we are not in League one .. I'm not too bothered.😊
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jul 15, 2020 22:42:45 GMT
Oh right. So you’d be for saying thanks for saving us from certain oblivion but it ain’t good enough so here’s your P45 and then trusting Scholes and JC to bring in someone better for their 4th manager in 2 years would you? BM He isn't good enough to take us up. Trusting Scholes and JC to appoint a progressive new manager is a different issue altogether. Clubs with ambition in this day and age wouldn't bat an eyelid at the decision to sack him at season end. If you want stability and two seasons in the Chanpionship then Michael's your man. If you want a genuine push for the promised land then you need a progressive foreign coach. That's my opinion. Cheers I seem to remember a certain Alex Fergusson, who started off with very little experience. The key word here is experience. How do you get experience if you're not given time? I'm optimistic about MON but time will tell. His achievements with Northern Ireland have surpassed expectations, so bear with him. We were down and out a few months ago, plummeting to League 1.
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 15, 2020 22:45:16 GMT
Nostradamus strikes again 😂😂 Funny when I said we are in a tailspin 4 years ago you said something Similar 😏 Yes but you think we’ve been in a tailspin for 12 consecutive years. What’s the crystal ball telling you for next season?
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 15, 2020 22:47:12 GMT
As MON has said himself, he has learnt a lot these last 8 months, notably when we seem to be getting better then have a set back.
He has also had time to reflect during the lock down on where he wants to change things.
He/the club are locked into players contracts and the next transfer window is bound to be long drawn out being till October, so many players and clubs will be holding out for a long time for the best deal. By the time the transfer window is closed some clubs may have already blown their promotion chances. It is going to be very difficult to build a promotion squad, but having said that since MON arrived we have performed at a play-off team level.
MON has worked a minor miracle with the squad at his disposal. We are still in the top half of the last 8 matches form table, despite our maulings by Wigan and Leeds.
I'm convinced we have an excellent manager and we should stand behind him while he grows into the job.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 0:18:58 GMT
Oh right. So you’d be for saying thanks for saving us from certain oblivion but it ain’t good enough so here’s your P45 and then trusting Scholes and JC to bring in someone better for their 4th manager in 2 years would you? BM He isn't good enough to take us up. Trusting Scholes and JC to appoint a progressive new manager is a different issue altogether. Clubs with ambition in this day and age wouldn't bat an eyelid at the decision to sack him at season end. If you want stability and two seasons in the Chanpionship then Michael's your man. If you want a genuine push for the promised land then you need a progressive foreign coach. That's my opinion. Cheers Based on what? Why does he need to be foreign, or progressive for that matter? What you need just as much in this league is concentration and discipline. We didn’t go up last time with a progressive, foreign manager, and just because Leeds are doing so this time, it doesn’t make it the only way. This league is a bit pants. If you score early, you’ve most often won, because a team chasing the game usually can’t ‘open you up’ the way a team in the prem used to. It’s just a grind to the finish. If we can remove the stupid errors, we will be on our way towards a playoff spot or better. How many teams actually ‘carve you open’?
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jul 16, 2020 4:51:13 GMT
I object to this post, I am not negative!
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Post by LankyPotter on Jul 16, 2020 6:41:48 GMT
Michael has done a very good job in keeping us up. But I dont think he's the right manager for us long term He has no experience and no Club coaching pedigree... Mid table next season. Maybe that is ok. But when you look at Brentford and Leeds we are light years away. Don’t understand football do ya kid.
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Jul 16, 2020 6:48:22 GMT
Fuck Me! MON has performed a miracle! He derserves time and it's going take plenty of it to turn this fat oil tanker around.
He need a few windows if we expect him to make a whole new team in one, we could risk the crashes as before.
The difference with MON is, I believe we'll progress whilst getting team in place.
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Post by smallthorner on Jul 16, 2020 6:59:51 GMT
Michael has done a very good job in keeping us up. But I dont think he's the right manager for us long term He has no experience and no Club coaching pedigree... Mid table next season. Maybe that is ok. But when you look at Brentford and Leeds we are light years away. Don’t understand football do ya kid. No.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jul 16, 2020 7:11:11 GMT
Beg to differ he’s taking us backwards which seemed unthinkable , he’s ignoring the best players , i personally find not a single cell of optimism in his press conferences , selection , tactics or game management right now I’d say hell b3 lucky to get more than 36 points Really!
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Post by colnepotter on Jul 16, 2020 7:20:50 GMT
I am confused. Only a couple of weeks ago we were “gone” according to the experts on here. Good to see the toys back in the pram......until the next defeat anyway. Happy days. Some measured rebuilding in the next few weeks and highly unlikely we will be in the bottom half next season.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 16, 2020 7:24:35 GMT
Funny when I said we are in a tailspin 4 years ago you said something Similar 😏 Yes but you think we’ve been in a tailspin for 12 consecutive years. What’s the crystal ball telling you for next season? It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager
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Post by Davef on Jul 16, 2020 7:32:40 GMT
Yes but you think we’ve been in a tailspin for 12 consecutive years. What’s the crystal ball telling you for next season? It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager Why don't you give us all a break and pack in with these tedious predictions?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 16, 2020 7:35:51 GMT
A lot of British managers have got clubs promoted from the Championship, Colin Wanker a few times, Bruce another, its just they ain't good enough when it comes to managing in the Premiership.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 16, 2020 7:36:34 GMT
It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager Why don't you give us all a break and pack in with these tedious predictions? Because he asked me so I just answered the question grumpy
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 16, 2020 7:41:37 GMT
I object to this post, I am not negative! With a username of rodger everyone, I’d suggest you’re more a delusional optimist 🤣
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 16, 2020 7:50:45 GMT
Yes but you think we’ve been in a tailspin for 12 consecutive years. What’s the crystal ball telling you for next season? It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager Somehow I doubt it. They are living in their own bubble. My next concern with our Board is that MON will tell them what has to be done, and they will baulk at the prospect and say we can't afford it. MON may then decide he has better prospects elsewhere. Why did the Board sack Lambert? Well maybe it was because he was not good enough, but what if was because after relegation Lambert told the board the squad was rotten and that the club would need to (1) get rid of Berahino, Imbula, Wimmer, Afellay, Choupo, Sobhi, etc. (2) get rid of all the old players, and (3) the young players were not ready for the Championship which he had plenty of experience in getting teams promoted, and that it would take years to rebuild the squad. The Board might of thought well the cheaper option is to get rid of Lambert and bring in ("bull-shitter") Rowett, who they wanted in January 2018. Just speculation on my part benj.
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Post by jzime on Jul 16, 2020 8:00:49 GMT
Michael has done a very good job in keeping us up. But I dont think he's the right manager for us long term He has no experience and no Club coaching pedigree... Mid table next season. Maybe that is ok. But when you look at Brentford and Leeds we are light years away. O'Neill has kept us up by working with a unbalanced, mentally fragile, squad which was built by four different managers with different tactical perspectives. The squad also: - lacks a senior left-back below the age of 34 - lacks a senior right-footed winger - has only one half-decent striker, a 20-year-old kid who isn't really the finished product yet. He has kept us up. That was the only expectation this season and he has saved us where Jones had almost certainly doomed us. I'm pretty sure he knows as well as we do that things need to improve next season if we are to be any good, particularly the away form. But he has done what he needed to do and has kept us up with the tools at his disposal. I think we honestly need to be realistic at this point and admit that it might take a season or two to fix us now. That's not settling for less or being unambitious, it's being realistic about the scale of the mess we are in. If we manage to get rid of all the players O'Neill wants to get rid of this summer and start next season with a squad constructed by him we will have done well; especially in the context of the financial consequences of the pandemic, where a lot of clubs in this division won't want to be spending big to sign a load of players who have been bang-average for two years. Finishing in the top-half but outside the playoffs would not be the end of the world, as long as there was clear evidence that there is a plan to take us up and if the young players we do have are being coached and improved. Yes Leeds and Brentford are lightyears away from us, and they have also spent many more years than we have in the doldrums of this division trying to build that; now we have to rebuild too, but we obviously can't let afford to let it take decades. I also think it can't really be overstated how much our reputation will have crashed the last three years. We are no longer going to be seen as a stable well-run club that can offer a manager clear progression in their personal ambitions, and (totally aside from the fact none of us have any faith in the board to hire a decent manager) that will obviously have an impact on the calibre of manager we can attract. In terms of O'Neill having no experience of club management at a high level, that's a bit of a moot point with all due respect. Nobody has experience until they have it. One of the worst things we could do right now is give an absolutely massive contract to an old-fashioned British manager with a lot of experience managing in the PL. And since you mentioned Brentford, Thomas Frank is so 'experienced' that he only ever managed a few Danish youth sides and Brondby (where he failed) before getting the Brentford.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 16, 2020 8:06:16 GMT
A lot of British managers have got clubs promoted from the Championship, Colin Wanker a few times, Bruce another, its just they ain't good enough when it comes to managing in the Premiership. Rogers, Bruce, Hodgson (nearly as old as me!!!), Lampard, Wilder, Dyche, Pearson (saved Leicester), and Howe may be struggling today but has done very well with Bournemouth. A lot of British managers do alright in the Premier League, and a lot of foreign ones arrive and disappear failures in no time, apart from the very best European managers. There are very few unknown foreign managers who build a reputation in the UK. When Palace were in dire trouble September 2017 and sacked their foreign manager they appointed Hodgson and a lot on this board laughed. Who's laughing in 2020? I posted on here when we sacked Hughes that we should appoint Bruce; very few agreed with me, on the poll we had. The only foreign managers who really succeed are those who are already top managers in Europe (+Bielsa) and we have no chance of getting them; Flores turned us down, and he lasted 11 and 3 months at Watford.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jul 16, 2020 8:29:28 GMT
O'Neill has performed a near miracle. Close to play off form with this unbalanced mess of a squad.
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Post by Northy on Jul 16, 2020 8:38:19 GMT
It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager Somehow I doubt it. They are living in their own bubble. My next concern with our Board is that MON will tell them what has to be done, and they will baulk at the prospect and say we can't afford it. MON may then decide he has better prospects elsewhere. Why did the Board sack Lambert? Well maybe it was because he was not good enough, but what if was because after relegation Lambert told the board the squad was rotten and that the club would need to (1) get rid of Berahino, Imbula, Wimmer, Afellay, Choupo, Sobhi, etc. (2) get rid of all the old players, and (3) the young players were not ready for the Championship which he had plenty of experience in getting teams promoted, and that it would take years to rebuild the squad. The Board might of thought well the cheaper option is to get rid of Lambert and bring in ("bull-shitter") Rowett, who they wanted in January 2018. Just speculation on my part benj. I don't think it was a cheap option bringing in Rowett, he spent quite a lot didn't he ?
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jul 16, 2020 8:41:25 GMT
O'Neill has performed a near miracle. Close to play off form with this unbalanced mess of a squad. I think that's a very generous analysis given performances since the restart.
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Post by cerebralstokie on Jul 16, 2020 8:51:35 GMT
I find reading this thread pretty depressing. We are where we are. I think M.O.N. has done a superb job given the hand he was dealt - bloated squad - dressing room issues - lack of confidence in the players. His man management seems to be spot on. He has lifted the squad after poor performances. He has also given some of the youngsters a chance which previous managers have not. T.P. used to regard anyone under the age of 26 as "kiddies". Most other teams in the Championship seem to consist of journeymen with one or two key players who give them a lift and can win games for them. It will take two or three years to "fix" Stoke assuming we have stability over that period. Changing managers has not solved the problem in the past. Perhaps a few changes in the Boardroom would not come amiss. Teams like Sheffield United, Wolves and Bournemouth have shown what can be done with a little patience. Teams are (or should be) greater than the sum of their parts. I think a top half finish next season and a challenge for promotion the following season is what seems to be realistic. Discuss!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 16, 2020 9:20:55 GMT
It’ never makes a prediction until. 1 We know what league we are playing in 2 we can see the majority of our window business What I will say is if this doesn’t cause an almighty wake up call and change in the Board room then nothin will and without it I’d still be concerned .O’Neil has performed pretty much a miracle given the hand he was dealt but progress now cannot be out solely at the door of the manager Somehow I doubt it. They are living in their own bubble. My next concern with our Board is that MON will tell them what has to be done, and they will baulk at the prospect and say we can't afford it. MON may then decide he has better prospects elsewhere. Why did the Board sack Lambert? Well maybe it was because he was not good enough, but what if was because after relegation Lambert told the board the squad was rotten and that the club would need to (1) get rid of Berahino, Imbula, Wimmer, Afellay, Choupo, Sobhi, etc. (2) get rid of all the old players, and (3) the young players were not ready for the Championship which he had plenty of experience in getting teams promoted, and that it would take years to rebuild the squad. The Board might of thought well the cheaper option is to get rid of Lambert and bring in ("bull-shitter") Rowett, who they wanted in January 2018. Just speculation on my part benj. Perfectly possible
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jul 16, 2020 11:11:34 GMT
O'Neill has performed a near miracle. Close to play off form with this unbalanced mess of a squad. I think that's a very generous analysis given performances since the restart. Our form under him is close to play off form. This squad has so.many issues with it he's done really well. Some shite performances but not at the same level as the last few years under different managers. No other manager we could realistically get does better with this squad. People might want a 'progressive' manager but that isn't happening unless there are radical changes. Which would.include Coates leaving.
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Post by redstriper on Jul 16, 2020 11:28:08 GMT
MON has had time to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the squad whilst simultaneously getting us out of the shit.
He has been a massive success, and now has the knowledge he needs to take us forward. The last thing we need next season is another manager. Anybody who thinks getting rid of him at this stage is a good idea is delusional imo, I can't believe there is even a debate about this.
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Post by stokeyank on Jul 16, 2020 12:14:31 GMT
O'Neill has performed a near miracle. Close to play off form with this unbalanced mess of a squad. I think that's a very generous analysis given performances since the restart. Yes we have been battered twice. One by the league leaders, the other by a team that just scored 8. Also that has more to do with our mental/attitude being fragile. That is a much more monumental task than getting the football correct. It will take some time and new players to fix that. More than anything in this league you need a steady hand. MoN has that.
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