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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 3, 2020 12:07:11 GMT
Just get rid he is part of our demise “Part of”........with about 14 others. However not the reason. But don’t let that cloud your opinion.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 3, 2020 12:18:45 GMT
As I've said somewhere else, If Allen was also to leave, along with Etebo and Badou, then we would certainly need to sign at least one more 'starter' midfielder plus another back up. If that starter is a DM then Woods and Clucas will be battling it out if Powell retains his place, with Sam the favourite given his left foot and goalscoring ability. If Duffy stays though, it may well be he becomes an option at times.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 12:49:23 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves.
So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him.
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Post by Gods on Jan 3, 2020 13:03:51 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. Excellent post, the voice of reason, all of that is true, we ignore the final sentence at our peril.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2020 13:13:16 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. He's constantly out of position. That's been the big problem with him. He's improved significantly in recent weeks and was more disciplined on Wednesday than he's been for a long time, but his positioning and dog with a balloon act has been a major problem.
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Joe Allen
Jan 3, 2020 13:16:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by ceejays on Jan 3, 2020 13:16:54 GMT
He’s rarely out of position? Which matches do u go to ? That’s his number one problem. U might say he tries to cover other players shortcomings ( see crouch comments re Shaqiri) but he has continually left gaps in midfield. Moreover he gets knocked off the ball on a regular basis as he doesn’t have the physical attributes needed. As for winning a ball in the air .
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Post by Gods on Jan 3, 2020 13:21:26 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. He's constantly out of position. That's been the big problem with him. He's improved significantly in recent weeks and was more disciplined on Wednesday than he's been for a long time, but his positioning and dog with a balloon act has been a major problem. So if he is so bad how come he is the only football player on our books for whom anyone at all would consider paying a transfer fee and matching their wages ? We can't sell anyone else can we? Heaven knows we've tried.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Jan 3, 2020 13:29:02 GMT
He's constantly out of position. That's been the big problem with him. He's improved significantly in recent weeks and was more disciplined on Wednesday than he's been for a long time, but his positioning and dog with a balloon act has been a major problem. So if he is so bad him come he is the only football player on our books for whom anyone at all would consider paying a transfer fee and matching their wages ? We can't sell anyone else can we? Heaven knows we've tried. Probably trading on past glories like I said yesterday Gods. Its no shock he's been linked with West Ham as Moyes is probably one of only a few managers who can remember Allen playing well for Wales, Liverpool and Swansea.
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Post by stokie223 on Jan 3, 2020 13:29:24 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. He's constantly out of position. That's been the big problem with him. He's improved significantly in recent weeks and was more disciplined on Wednesday than he's been for a long time, but his positioning and dog with a balloon act has been a major problem. That's the strangest comment I think I've seen on here for a long while. We have conceded countless goals due to him being out of position - particularly since coming down to the championship. He goes wandering and leaves gaping holes in our midfield. There is something I do like about Allen, and think perhaps maybe the reason he's doing this is because he's trying to run around like a headless chicken covering for other player's deficiencies - so maybe with the right personnel in/around him he'd excel, but genuinely for us I think he creates many more problems than he solves. I personally think you'd be very surprised how easy he would be for this side, in its current state, to replace.
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Post by onionman on Jan 3, 2020 13:30:34 GMT
There has been a huge improvement in Allen the past few games. He has played with purpose, discipline and aggression which is what I love to see in a central midfielder, and I suspect most Stoke fans are the same. If he had done that consistently for the past three years there would be no arguments about his value to the team - he would be a Stoke legend and we would be nowhere near the relegation zone.
Maybe it’s because Jones or Rowett didn’t know how to motivate him or instruct him to play sensibly. Maybe it’s because he wants to impress the scouts from West Ham or anyone else from the Premier League. Neither reflect very well on him.
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Post by richardparker on Jan 3, 2020 13:30:59 GMT
Just keep him here and review in the summer.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 3, 2020 13:32:36 GMT
Hes been good and bad for us.
The biggest issue I have with Joe Allen is his undroppable contract status. Him and Butland have played WAY too many games for us just because they are BIG NAMES when their form doesnt justify it.
I want players picked on form, not based on whats in their contract or some gentlemans agreement stating they must start if fit.
For that it would be way better for the squad if Allen & Butland left in January and lets get proper competition for places.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 3, 2020 13:37:24 GMT
There has been a huge improvement in Allen the past few games. He has played with purpose, discipline and aggression which is what I love to see in a central midfielder, and I suspect most Stoke fans are the same. If he had done that consistently for the past three years there would be no arguments about his value to the team - he would be a Stoke legend and we would be nowhere near the relegation zone. Maybe it’s because Jones or Rowett didn’t know how to motivate him or instruct him to play sensibly. Maybe it’s because he wants to impress the scouts from West Ham or anyone else from the Premier League. Neither reflect very well on him. Absolutely right. The difference in his recent performances compared to previous performances is huge. He is much more disciplined, he is moving the ball quicker and being more decisive with ball. Looks like MON has instilled some confidence and maybe a kick up the arse. He is also bound to be more effective with players like Campbell and Powell around because there is more movement going on which is what he gets with Bale, James, Ramsey etc with Wales. If he had played like he has in recent weeks over the last 3 years we might not be in such a perilous position.
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Joe Allen
Jan 3, 2020 13:37:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Jan 3, 2020 13:37:39 GMT
Just keep him here and review in the summer. £12m won’t be on offer in the summer.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 3, 2020 13:37:55 GMT
I can understand the club wanting to cut the wage bill, slim the squad, give young players some incentive that there is a future for them, etc., but selling 3 MF does raise alarm bells with me.
My view is Allen works very hard, particularly off the ball, and is what I call a "feed" player, i.e. he receives and supplies the ball to others. He also gets into the box and scores quite regularly.
But, he is poor at defending, often reckless when he does tackle, has little vision, and not a particularly good passer in terms of defence splitting passes.
So, if the price is right, sell IMO. In Clucas and Powell, we have MF who do see opportunities, have a better shot at goal, and create more problems than Allen for the opposition.
What we need is a solid MF to play in front of the back line. Woods and Cousins are not good enough.
We have needed a good defensive MF since N'Zonzi and Whelan left and have not found one since. I even think Whelan would do a better job for us for the next 6 months than Woods or Cousins, but I am not advocating we should sign him. Surely there is "a Whelan" out there somewhere?
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Joe Allen
Jan 3, 2020 13:40:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 13:40:50 GMT
He’s rarely out of position? Which matches do u go to ? That’s his number one problem. U might say he tries to cover other players shortcomings ( see crouch comments re Shaqiri) but he has continually left gaps in midfield. Moreover he gets knocked off the ball on a regular basis as he doesn’t have the physical attributes needed. As for winning a ball in the air . I assume you’d drop him then. Who would you play instead?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2020 13:40:55 GMT
He's constantly out of position. That's been the big problem with him. He's improved significantly in recent weeks and was more disciplined on Wednesday than he's been for a long time, but his positioning and dog with a balloon act has been a major problem. So if he is so bad him come he is the only football player on our books for whom anyone at all would consider paying a transfer fee and matching their wages ? We can't sell anyone else can we? Heaven knows we've tried. You could equally argue that if he’s so good why hasn’t anyone snapped him up in the 18 months since we went down? I don’t think he is ‘so bad’ for what it’s worth - he can offer a lot in the right system with the right players to plug the gaps he leaves or the right manager to get hold of him and keep him from entering lassie mode. But I just can’t agree that he’s this talismanic hero that the nasty boo boys have concocted a myth about because it’s somehow ‘his turn’. Our midfield has been a total shambles and his lack of discipline off the ball has been a sizeable part of that.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2020 13:42:35 GMT
Hes been good and bad for us. The biggest issue I have with Joe Allen is his undroppable contract status. Him and Butland have played WAY too many games for us just because they are BIG NAMES when their form doesnt justify it. I want players picked on form, not based on whats in their contract or some gentlemans agreement stating they must start if fit. For that it would be way better for the squad if Allen & Butland left in January and lets get proper competition for places. I’d be staggered if anyone on the books had that kind of clause in their contract.
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Joe Allen
Jan 3, 2020 13:46:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by nystokie1 on Jan 3, 2020 13:46:29 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him.
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Post by nystokie1 on Jan 3, 2020 13:49:19 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. Ah someone who understands football. How nice to find. As the man says, excellent post. We need someone to rat for us in midfield and Allen does that.
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Post by stokie223 on Jan 3, 2020 13:49:56 GMT
So if he is so bad him come he is the only football player on our books for whom anyone at all would consider paying a transfer fee and matching their wages ? We can't sell anyone else can we? Heaven knows we've tried. You could equally argue that if he’s so good why hasn’t anyone snapped him up in the 18 months since we went down? I don’t think he is ‘so bad’ for what it’s worth - he can offer a lot in the right system with the right players to plug the gaps he leaves or the right manager to get hold of him and keep him from entering lassie mode. But I just can’t agree that he’s this talismanic hero that the nasty boo boys have concocted a myth about because it’s somehow ‘his turn’. Our midfield has been a total shambles and his lack of discipline off the ball has been a sizeable part of that. Perfectly put!
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 3, 2020 13:50:54 GMT
Hes been good and bad for us. The biggest issue I have with Joe Allen is his undroppable contract status. Him and Butland have played WAY too many games for us just because they are BIG NAMES when their form doesnt justify it. I want players picked on form, not based on whats in their contract or some gentlemans agreement stating they must start if fit. For that it would be way better for the squad if Allen & Butland left in January and lets get proper competition for places. I’d be staggered if anyone on the books had that kind of clause in their contract. There is definitely more to it than gossip. There was some ITK posting on here almost a year ago saying this was the case and it was causing issues in the squad. I cant find the link now. Allen has missed a grand total of 3 games in his time at Stoke when fit. He has never missed more than 1 game in a row and is always brought back into the team after a "rest"
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 3, 2020 13:52:54 GMT
Even though he really has picked up his game lately I can't see us saying no to a bid in the region of £12M, this due to ffp and the age of the player. I'm sure we can bring someone in that will suit us just as well for half the money and with half the wages.
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Post by medwaypotter on Jan 3, 2020 14:00:38 GMT
So if he is so bad him come he is the only football player on our books for whom anyone at all would consider paying a transfer fee and matching their wages ? We can't sell anyone else can we? Heaven knows we've tried. Probably trading on past glories like I said yesterday Gods. Its no shock he's been linked with West Ham as Moyes is probably one of only a few managers who can remember Allen playing well for Wales, Liverpool and Swansea. You don't think he plays well for Wales ? Fuck me
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2020 14:17:14 GMT
I’d be staggered if anyone on the books had that kind of clause in their contract. There is definitely more to it than gossip. There was some ITK posting on here almost a year ago saying this was the case and it was causing issues in the squad. I cant find the link now. Allen has missed a grand total of 3 games in his time at Stoke when fit. He has never missed more than 1 game in a row and is always brought back into the team after a "rest" Does the fact that was dropped even for that one game not suggest there's no clause though? Would that not have breached it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 14:59:44 GMT
I’d be staggered if anyone on the books had that kind of clause in their contract. There is definitely more to it than gossip. There was some ITK posting on here almost a year ago saying this was the case and it was causing issues in the squad. I cant find the link now. Allen has missed a grand total of 3 games in his time at Stoke when fit. He has never missed more than 1 game in a row and is always brought back into the team after a "rest" And as we know, all the ITKs on here are 100% watertight. As if he's got a clause in his contract to say he must play. When has that ever been a thing?!? I seem to recall Stoke not signing someone because they couldn't guarantee them first team football every week - which is correct, and I don't think a structure would be changed for Joe Allen.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 3, 2020 15:13:12 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. Shush......Fair, reasoned and constructive comment is not required.
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Post by toppercorner on Jan 3, 2020 15:14:08 GMT
i've moaned enough about Allen recently, but i do have to say, since the arrival of Mon, he seems a much more composed player.
if it were me, sell at the end of the season. we don't need to much trauma in the transfer dept this January.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2020 15:26:22 GMT
Allen is vital to us, I know he has his off days (so does everyone) but he does more work off the ball than anyone. He's rarely out of position and he makes us tick when we have the ball - against Huddersfield, everything went through him. If you look at our chances since MON came in, he's involved. He picks pockets in the opposition half (see McClean's goal vs SWFC and Powell's goal vs HUFC, as some examples) and wins the ball back for us. His stats speak for themselves. So when you see him misplace a pass and judge him as useless, I promise you will miss him when he's gone. He's not starting every game for every manager that's been at Stoke because he's contracted to do so - it's because he's the engine room. And if he leaves, we have to make a very big signing to replace him. Shush......Fair, reasoned and constructive comment is not required. It's just as one-sided and one-eyed as those of his worst detractors, isn't it?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 3, 2020 15:49:23 GMT
Shush......Fair, reasoned and constructive comment is not required. It's just as one-sided and one-eyed as those of his worst detractors, isn't it? Fair, reasoned and constructive. “One sided and one eyed”........not!!
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