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Post by partickpotter on Dec 6, 2019 12:24:31 GMT
Different people have different motivations. You, more than anyone, should know that. So what do you suppose Baroness Warsi's motivations are? And how do they differ from those of others proclaiming their concern about Islamophobia in the Tory party? I’ll type this slowly so you can hopefully understand. Different people have different motives. Warsi is motivated by highlighting what she sees as Islamophobia in the Tory party. She may be right, she may be wrong - we await the report on that. The OP is motivated by a desire to deflect attention from Labour’s anti-semitism issue (which we know exists because a report has been published) by saying “what about the Tories...”. Hope that helps. |
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Post by starkiller on Dec 6, 2019 12:25:50 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear.
From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers.
Let me know if I've missed something...
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 6, 2019 12:29:29 GMT
“I set trends dem man copy”
Michael Gove’s ridiculous appropriation.
Horripilation
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 6, 2019 12:36:53 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... I was going to say something similar Star. There's a difference between being against the ideology which in itself is a threat to Western values and is capable of encouraging extreme behaviour and being against Muslims/ individuals who in many cases are themselves victims. Eg some women in Iran have suffered for wanting the freedom to choose to wear or not wear the hijab, never mind the burqua and some have been ostracised by the community ( and more) for being disrespectful towards Islam. Its not good to tolerate anything and everything. Jesus didn't. ..... what's he got to do with it? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 6, 2019 12:40:52 GMT
Surely anyone's response to Islam can only be.... it's true, in which case it makes sense to accept and to follow it....or it's false, in which case it needs close scrutiny ( which it doesn't allow). I don't think that the third way, just ignore it , it isn't doing any harm / having any effect is quite right. In my opinion.
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Post by vokeswagen on Dec 6, 2019 13:06:16 GMT
So what do you suppose Baroness Warsi's motivations are? And how do they differ from those of others proclaiming their concern about Islamophobia in the Tory party? I’ll type this slowly so you can hopefully understand. Different people have different motives. Warsi is motivated by highlighting what she sees as Islamophobia in the Tory party. She may be right, she may be wrong - we await the report on that. The OP is motivated by a desire to deflect attention from Labour’s anti-semitism issue (which we know exists because a report has been published) by saying “what about the Tories...”. Hope that helps. Oh I couldn't agree more mate. There's something terribly unedifying about people affecting to be concerned for racism when in reality they're only interested in furthering their chosen political "side". A bit like the many posters on here who have been assuming the role of virtue signalling moral guardians on the matter of anti-Semitism since long before anything so official as a report was published. Often with little more than a Dan Hodges tweet by way of "evidence"  As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on. It's very sad when the genuine plights of minorites get turned into a bandwagon for cynical posters on here isn't it. |
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 6, 2019 13:44:19 GMT
I’ll type this slowly so you can hopefully understand. Different people have different motives. Warsi is motivated by highlighting what she sees as Islamophobia in the Tory party. She may be right, she may be wrong - we await the report on that. The OP is motivated by a desire to deflect attention from Labour’s anti-semitism issue (which we know exists because a report has been published) by saying “what about the Tories...”. Hope that helps. Oh I couldn't agree more mate. There's something terribly unedifying about people affecting to be concerned for racism when in reality they're only interested in furthering their chosen political "side". A bit like the many posters on here who have been assuming the role of virtue signalling moral guardians on the matter of anti-Semitism since long before anything so official as a report was published. Often with little more than a Dan Hodges tweet by way of "evidence" As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on. It's very sad when the genuine plights of minorites get turned into a bandwagon for cynical posters on here isn't it. You raise something I think is very worrying. The introduction of sectarianism into politics by people primarily concerned with trying to secure an advantage for their party. This applies equally to both parties. |
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Post by vokeswagen on Dec 8, 2019 15:34:35 GMT
Oh I couldn't agree more mate. There's something terribly unedifying about people affecting to be concerned for racism when in reality they're only interested in furthering their chosen political "side". A bit like the many posters on here who have been assuming the role of virtue signalling moral guardians on the matter of anti-Semitism since long before anything so official as a report was published. Often with little more than a Dan Hodges tweet by way of "evidence" As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on. It's very sad when the genuine plights of minorites get turned into a bandwagon for cynical posters on here isn't it. You raise something I think is very worrying. The introduction of sectarianism into politics by people primarily concerned with trying to secure an advantage for their party. This applies equally to both parties. Agreed. The sectarianism is very worrying. The playing of the proxy race card - by people who transparently don't care about the minority whose bandwagon they've gratefully leapt onto - is part of that. The problem with accusations of racism is that they're impossible to defend yourself against (whether or not they're true). In this way, from a PR perspective race is the perfect smear. However once you go down that path, the genie is out of the bottle. We've now entered a very dangerous place where you can't dispute any aspect of such allegations without being branded a racist or an apologist by the mob. That was always the aim I suspect. Sad times. |
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 8, 2019 16:01:56 GMT
I’ll type this slowly so you can hopefully understand. Different people have different motives. Warsi is motivated by highlighting what she sees as Islamophobia in the Tory party. She may be right, she may be wrong - we await the report on that. The OP is motivated by a desire to deflect attention from Labour’s anti-semitism issue (which we know exists because a report has been published) by saying “what about the Tories...”. Hope that helps. Oh I couldn't agree more mate. There's something terribly unedifying about people affecting to be concerned for racism when in reality they're only interested in furthering their chosen political "side". A bit like the many posters on here who have been assuming the role of virtue signalling moral guardians on the matter of anti-Semitism since long before anything so official as a report was published. Often with little more than a Dan Hodges tweet by way of "evidence" As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on. It's very sad when the genuine plights of minorites get turned into a bandwagon for cynical posters on here isn't it. Surely you are guilty of much the same thing by only name checking the posters from one side of the political debate . There is a whole thread about islamaphobia heavily laden with the left wing political agenda |
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Post by vokeswagen on Dec 8, 2019 16:10:00 GMT
Oh I couldn't agree more mate. There's something terribly unedifying about people affecting to be concerned for racism when in reality they're only interested in furthering their chosen political "side". A bit like the many posters on here who have been assuming the role of virtue signalling moral guardians on the matter of anti-Semitism since long before anything so official as a report was published. Often with little more than a Dan Hodges tweet by way of "evidence" As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on. It's very sad when the genuine plights of minorites get turned into a bandwagon for cynical posters on here isn't it. Surely you are guilty of much the same thing by only name checking the posters from one side of the political debate . There is a whole thread about islamaphobia heavily laden with the left wing political agenda In which case you're doing it too by choosing to respond to my post and not questioning anything fyd, Roger, carps, void et al have posted about antisemitism. And so on and so on and so on. If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see I was agreeing with Partick and have literally just said this happens on both sides  |
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Post by foster on Dec 9, 2019 12:13:20 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... What's your opinion on Judaism? Kosher meat (ritual killing), funny clothes/hair, not allowing men and women to mix, minimal to no integration, etc. |
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 9, 2019 12:36:52 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... What's your opinion on Judaism? Kosher meat (ritual killing), funny clothes/hair, not allowing men and women to mix, minimal to no integration, etc. ...You missed off genital mutilation... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 14:12:14 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... You should take a long, hard look at Christianity to be honest mate. |
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Post by starkiller on Dec 9, 2019 14:23:01 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... You should take a long, hard look at Christianity to be honest mate. I would. But the thread is about Islam. |
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Post by starkiller on Dec 9, 2019 14:24:08 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... What's your opinion on Judaism? Kosher meat (ritual killing), funny clothes/hair, not allowing men and women to mix, minimal to no integration, etc. The thread is about Islam. |
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 9, 2019 14:24:46 GMT
You talk about being anti-Islam as though it's a bad thing, when it's pretty much counter to many values I hold dear. From it's treatment of animals, to it's view on women, rape victims, the unmarried, homosexuals, clothing, violence, suppression, capital punishment, control, its view of those who disagree it, its hypocrisy, it's ability to get its own way at the expense of freedoms, it being the most fascist ideology currently accepted in the world, and the fact that it can play the minority victim card, even though there are almost 2 billion followers. Let me know if I've missed something... You should take a long, hard look at Christianity to be honest mate. He’s an atheist |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 14:58:12 GMT
You should take a long, hard look at Christianity to be honest mate. I would. But the thread is about Islam. Yep, you're saying all those things as if that is what Muslims mostly do. They don't, in the same way Christians mostly don't stone gays or kill those who work on Sundays. Fundamentalism and radicalising of vulnerable individuals is the issue, not, I repeat not, Islam, Christianity, or the people of any other religion. |
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Post by starkiller on Dec 9, 2019 15:18:44 GMT
I would. But the thread is about Islam. Yep, you're saying all those things as if that is what Muslims mostly do. They don't, in the same way Christians mostly don't stone gays or kill those who work on Sundays. Fundamentalism and radicalising of vulnerable individuals is the issue, not, I repeat not, Islam, Christianity, or the people of any other religion. If that's the case then why are you asking me to consider Christianity in the same way? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:28:16 GMT
Yep, you're saying all those things as if that is what Muslims mostly do. They don't, in the same way Christians mostly don't stone gays or kill those who work on Sundays. Fundamentalism and radicalising of vulnerable individuals is the issue, not, I repeat not, Islam, Christianity, or the people of any other religion. If that's the case then why are you asking me to consider Christianity in the same way? That's the point. Christianity is very similar in its fundamentals, but you would never see it the way you describe Islam. |
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Post by heyzeus on Dec 9, 2019 18:18:42 GMT
There's nothing wrong with Christianity |
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Post by vokeswagen on Dec 9, 2019 20:09:18 GMT
There's nothing wrong with Christianity Riiiight  |
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Post by thevoid on Dec 10, 2019 11:39:01 GMT
There's nothing wrong with Christianity Riiiight Talking to yourself again, sausage? 😊 |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2022 8:47:31 GMT
The "totally independent" EHRC are still monitoring the situation I'm sure.......  And I have to say Keir Starmer has some front, he's right to show solidarity towards Ghani, yet refused to do the same for 2 of his colleagues recently (their crime of course is to be on the left of the party), Trevor Phillips is allowed back in the party and David Blunkett bought back in as an advisor: Before anyone tells me Islamophobia isn't even a thing, simply substitute for "Muslim hate" and read again........ |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 23, 2022 9:02:42 GMT
The "totally independent" EHRC are still monitoring the situation I'm sure....... And I have to say Keir Starmer has some front, he's right to show solidarity towards Ghani, yet refused to do the same for 2 of his colleagues recently (their crime of course is to be on the left of the party), Trevor Phillips is allowed back in the party and David Blunkett bought back in as an advisor: Before anyone tells me Islamophobia isn't even a thing, simply substitute for "Muslim hate" and read again........ Disgraceful if true it really is. But keep it in the bag til you need it. |
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 23, 2022 13:13:00 GMT
The "totally independent" EHRC are still monitoring the situation I'm sure....... And I have to say Keir Starmer has some front, he's right to show solidarity towards Ghani, yet refused to do the same for 2 of his colleagues recently (their crime of course is to be on the left of the party), Trevor Phillips is allowed back in the party and David Blunkett bought back in as an advisor: Before anyone tells me Islamophobia isn't even a thing, simply substitute for "Muslim hate" and read again........ It takes some front to claim trevor phillips is an islamophobe yet deny wreath laying for the mastermind behind jewish athlete killers is not anti semitism, but then Phillips and Starmer aren't your people why not use Beijing Barry or genocide denying Burgon I wonder. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2022 13:37:36 GMT
The "totally independent" EHRC are still monitoring the situation I'm sure....... And I have to say Keir Starmer has some front, he's right to show solidarity towards Ghani, yet refused to do the same for 2 of his colleagues recently (their crime of course is to be on the left of the party), Trevor Phillips is allowed back in the party and David Blunkett bought back in as an advisor: Before anyone tells me Islamophobia isn't even a thing, simply substitute for "Muslim hate" and read again........ It takes some front to claim trevor phillips is an islamophobe yet deny wreath laying for the mastermind behind jewish athlete killers is not anti semitism, but then Phillips and Starmer aren't your people why not use Beijing Barry or genocide denying Burgon I wonder. I think Phillips own words pain him as an Islamophobe to be fair. And as for a wreath being laid for the mastermind behind the Munich Massace who are you referring to specifically? The rest is just waffle, “my people” grow up you daft old wazzock Getting back to the topic in hand what are your thoughts on more allegations of anti-Muslim bigotry brought about by another Muslim member of the party? |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 23, 2022 13:47:49 GMT
It takes some front to claim trevor phillips is an islamophobe yet deny wreath laying for the mastermind behind jewish athlete killers is not anti semitism, but then Phillips and Starmer aren't your people why not use Beijing Barry or genocide denying Burgon I wonder. I think Phillips own words pain him as an Islamophobe to be fair. And as for a wreath being laid for the mastermind behind the Munich Massace who are you referring to specifically? The rest is just waffle, “my people” grow up you daft old wazzock Getting back to the topic in hand what are your thoughts on more allegations of anti-Muslim bigotry brought about by another Muslim member of the party? Just like all politicians not prepared or willing to deal with this problem but prepared to keep it in the bag for when they need it. If true she could have done more to fight this islamaphobia when it happened. Now its just lumped in with all the anti-Boris rhetoric |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2022 13:53:24 GMT
I think Phillips own words pain him as an Islamophobe to be fair. And as for a wreath being laid for the mastermind behind the Munich Massace who are you referring to specifically? The rest is just waffle, “my people” grow up you daft old wazzock  Getting back to the topic in hand what are your thoughts on more allegations of anti-Muslim bigotry brought about by another Muslim member of the party? Just like all politicians not prepared or willing to deal with this problem but prepared to keep it in the bag for when they need it. If true she could have done more to fight this islamaphobia when it happened. Now its just lumped in with all the anti-Boris rhetoric Would you say the same to an alleged victim of rape or historical sexual abuse, "why didn't they fight it when it happened?" |
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 23, 2022 13:56:21 GMT
It takes some front to claim trevor phillips is an islamophobe yet deny wreath laying for the mastermind behind jewish athlete killers is not anti semitism, but then Phillips and Starmer aren't your people why not use Beijing Barry or genocide denying Burgon I wonder. I think Phillips own words pain him as an Islamophobe to be fair. And as for a wreath being laid for the mastermind behind the Munich Massace who are you referring to specifically? The rest is just waffle, “my people” grow up you daft old wazzock Getting back to the topic in hand what are your thoughts on more allegations of anti-Muslim bigotry brought about by another Muslim member of the party? Corbyn laid a wreath did you miss that I missed your condemnation. My thoughts on the alleged bigotry are the same as the last time you asked, investigate, kick out people if found true, fail to deal with it and they will deservedly end up in the same hole as the Labour party. Your position seems a bit strange previously your belief was the problem was overstated and claims were being used for factional reasons, labour mps claims were not to be believed yet here we are and straight away you accept a tory mp is telling the truth. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2022 14:10:44 GMT
I think Phillips own words pain him as an Islamophobe to be fair. And as for a wreath being laid for the mastermind behind the Munich Massace who are you referring to specifically? The rest is just waffle, “my people” grow up you daft old wazzock Getting back to the topic in hand what are your thoughts on more allegations of anti-Muslim bigotry brought about by another Muslim member of the party? Corbyn laid a wreath did you miss that I missed your condemnation. My thoughts on the alleged bigotry are the same as the last time you asked, investigate, kick out people if found true, fail to deal with it and they will deservedly end up in the same hole as the Labour party. Your position seems a bit strange previously your belief was the problem was overstated and claims were being used for factional reasons, labour mps claims were not to be believed yet here we are and straight away you accept a tory mp is telling the truth. Yes he laid a wreath for the victims of a 1985 air strike what has that got to do with the mastermind of the Munich massacre Abu Daoud who died and was buried in Syria? Facts matter. There's nothing strange about my views, the problem of anti-semitism in the Labour Party were absolutely overstated for factional reasons the more I read the more obvious that is, I mean statistically anyone with a calculator should easily come to that conclusion. And again I'm not sure what Labour MP's I didn't believe, I condemned anti-semitic abuse of several Labour MP's (where it was evidenced) whilst also highlighting the absurdity of the likes of Luciana Berger claiming abuse from right wing trolls on the internet were part of a new wave of anti-semitism in the party (yes - amazingly - for factional reasons). Again, facts matter. If the EHRC were independent (laughable) they would have been all over the Tories like a tramp on chips regarding Islamophobia. I said on dozens of occasions there was a problem in a small percentage of the Labour Party with anti-semitism, would you like to join me in condemning a small percentage of the Conservative Party complicit in Islamphobia as well? Because racism is racism in my eyes........ |
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As you say, it deflects attention from any number of things - in that particular case, in relation to the Conservative Party though. Posters like fyd, Roger, carps, void, felonious and so on.
