Hyeung Min Son

[jimigoodwinsbeard]

I lovw this guy, plays football with a smile on his face, very humble. My fav prem player.
Why has he been treated so differently to Shawcross. The outpouring of sympathy towards him compared to Shawcross is chalk and cheese. Shawcross showed the same emotions, was crying and visibly upset....the same as Son. The ensuing outcry and derision against Shawcross was despicable.

[Deleted]

He plays for a popular club, Stoke were and are seen as one of scummy clubs of English football

[uttoxeterblue]

Anyone would think its Son who had his ankle snapped with the way the media have been going on. The spurs PR team have played a blinder.

[duckling]

Nov 7, 2019 6:28:34 GMT @barbarian said:

He plays for a popular club, Stoke were and are seen as one of scummy clubs of English football

This is the primary reason. If Son played for Stoke and Gomes played for Arsenal, the media and public reaction would be very different. I imagine as well that if a Cardiff or Burnley player injured a media darling from a big team, the reaction would be similar to what happened with Shawcross.

The secondary reason is that Son has a very likeable public persona. If it were Xhaka, Suarez, Pepe, or Ramos, you wouldn't see as much sympathy, albeit more than with Shawcross because they play for major clubs.

[bathstoke]

Apparently that was a low point in Stokes recent history,
But it feels like dizzying heigh altitude to the depths we have plummeted to.

[sportsman]

I'm expecting a donation appeal next for him. Save our Son. He didn't mean it, he's a nice guy, poor little Son.

[Davef]

Two words: London press.

[Gods]

His red card was recinded I think I heard last night?

I haven't seen the incident but is that further bias or is the inference no blame?

[cobhamstokey]

I think theyre very different in that Sons was a very low impact challenge and it was obvious that the actual challenge didn't cause the injury and that it was the impact of catching the second Spurs player that caused.
Ryan's however unintentional which it was looked worse even though someone holding him back impacted the timing of it.
In relation to the red he initially gave a yellow but on seeing the injury bottled it and changed it to red which was a big mistake and he needs telling for it. That said he's probably done Son a favour as like Ryan he was in pieces.
I too like Son and he doesn't deserve blaming for the injury it was the type of tackle that happens loads in footy with no injury resulting and on some occasions not even a yellow.

[philb]

Nov 7, 2019 8:30:39 GMT Gods said:

His red card was recinded I think I heard last night?

I haven't seen the incident but is that further bias or is the inference no blame?

No, it was rightly rescinded. It was only a red because Twatkinson wanted to make himself look good on tv. You should have seen one of the Spurs coaches faces when he branded the red card. It was like ‘Are you serious Atkinson’
The reaction of one of the Everton players towards Son (he put his arm around him) showed it was an accident and when you see the reaction of the opposition like that and then see the disgusting antics of the Arsenal players trying to get Shawcross sent off, tells you all you need to know about that Arsenal team at the time.

[Deleted]

The club didn't do enough at the time to defend their captain. Whilst they didn't throw him to the wolves, they certainly didn't do enough to stop them repeatedly attacking him.

[callas12]

The same occured after Martin Taylor of Birmingham City was lambasted for a tackle that badly broke Eduardo's leg during a match in 2008. Do think Arsene Wenger was the main pioneer of the bad press that followed this injury aswell as that of Shawcross after the Ramsey injury.

Managers of a certain status in the game do have a certain influencing factor over the press & it appears whatever they say or their initial reactions to an incident are are good early indicators to how the press portray that particular incident out. Klopp & Pep are current managers whose early reactions to something are taken quite literally.

From what I recall Wenger was kind of forced into apologising for his initial outburst over the Eduardo injury coz it was scathing & well over the top.
It's a pity he reacted the way he did to Ryan because I really do believe that incident had a big big bearing on Ryan & did kind of halt his career at a point it was on the verge of blossoming.

[bridgnorthstokie]

London press and also wengers reaction and attitude towards shawcross didnt help.

I think a similar reaction from wenger happened to a birmingham player who was involved in tackle which injured an arsenal player.

[samstokie1]

Ive seen more posts and articles about the fact that Son looked sad than stuff about the bloke who literally had his ankle snapped

[biglad180]

in a nutshell wenger stirred all the hate to shawcross. Arsenal are a vile club

[terrorofturfmoor]

At the time, Wenger had already labeled us as a Rugby team, and Arsenal played this beautiful carpet football.....
So when the Shawcross/Ramsey incident happened, the media were all over it like a bad rash!!!

What they chose not to realise with us compared to Son, is that these type of things happen in sport from time to time, it's pure accidental, I very much doubt that ANY player goes out with the intentions of breaking someone's leg or ankle!!!

Plus Wenger's comments straight after didn't help matters!!!

[peekay67]

Ramsey's leg had gone before Shawx even touched him. It was hyped by the press and Ramsey's ridiculous attitude afterwards.

Shit happens. I understand Ramsey was very upset, but it happens in contact sport.

[biglad180]

Nov 7, 2019 9:34:05 GMT biglad180 said:

in a nutshell wenger stirred all the hate to shawcross. Arsenal are a vile club

i still say now that ramsey kicked the floor before ryan conected is leg was already broke

[estrangedsonoffaye]

Club perception plays a massive part here, Shawcross was guilty by association with Pulis and his style. I think the fact we remained in the PL for another 8 or so years after meant it kept coming back up too. Martin Taylor and Birmingham were relegated that season, so it never resurfaced as an issue.

[estrangedsonoffaye]

Nov 7, 2019 9:01:59 GMT callas12 said:

The same occured after Martin Taylor of Birmingham City was lambasted for a tackle that badly broke Eduardo's leg during a match in 2008. Do think Arsene Wenger was the main pioneer of the bad press that followed this injury aswell as that of Shawcross after the Ramsey injury.

Managers of a certain status in the game do have a certain influencing factor over the press & it appears whatever they say or their initial reactions to an incident are are good early indicators to how the press portray that particular incident out. Klopp & Pep are current managers whose early reactions to something are taken quite literally.

From what I recall Wenger was kind of forced into apologising for his initial outburst over the Eduardo injury coz it was scathing & well over the top.
It's a pity he reacted the way he did to Ryan because I really do believe that incident had a big big bearing on Ryan & did kind of halt his career at a point it was on the verge of blossoming.

He compared Taylor to a murderer saying you only need to kill one person to be called a killer applying that somewhat twisted and strawman logic to the arguments saying that Taylor wasn't that type of player.

[nottsover60]

All the above plus the fact that Pulis had made us into a team that everyone hated and thought of as thugs. Good fun at first but got a bit tiresome and is one of the reasons I don't want him back. Strangely the reputation seems to have stuck to us rather than him - even now referees seem to think they've got to clamp down on the first bit of aggression they see from us and our players get booked for their first foul whereas the opposition seem to get several warnings.

[estrangedsonoffaye]

What I will say to our own fans regarding the leg break is that Shawcross did cause it, the "smoking gun" pre contact-leg break picture doesn't match up with the footage at all. When Shawcross makes contact in the video Ramsey's right leg is planted and his left leg is in contact with the floor. The picture is a few split seconds after the contact as he goes over Ryan's leg to the ground and raises his left leg which is what the picture shows.

That doesn't mean Ryan deserves to be treated the way he has done by the press but I think it's important to note he did break his leg.

That said, I've seen far worse tackles cause leg breaks and practically go unmentioned. Neil Taylor on Seamus Coleman is a particularly bad one.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2019 6:28:34 GMT @barbarian said:

He plays for a popular club, Stoke were and are seen as one of scummy clubs of English football

I think this is it. We’re just a generally disliked / disrespected club. Fuck em. Fuck them all.

[boskampsflaps]

It wasn't against a team with a clear vendetta against them, if the Shawcross tackle had been against anyone else I can't see it would have gone that badly.

[walrus]

While there is an element of big club bias to the reactions, there’s more to it than just that.

Shawcross is a 6’4” centre half with a skinhead who has made a very good career out of being an old school, no nonsense defender who’s not afraid to go in hard.

Son is a very different style of player.

I think as Stoke fans we all know Shawcross would never have wanted to cause that sort of injury, but to Arsenal fans and neutrals it’s much, much easier to equate someone of Ryan’s physique and playing style to allegations of either “he did it on purpose” or “It wasn’t on purpose but if you constantly go flying in for tackles sooner or later you’re going to crock someone”.

Do you think the reaction would have been the same hypothetically if Bojan or Shaqiri had injured an Arsenal player?

[sheds1862]

Nov 7, 2019 10:02:24 GMT nottsover60 said:

All the above plus the fact that Pulis had made us into a team that everyone hated and thought of as thugs. Good fun at first but got a bit tiresome and is one of the reasons I don't want him back. Strangely the reputation seems to have stuck to us rather than him - even now referees seem to think they've got to clamp down on the first bit of aggression they see from us and our players get booked for their first foul whereas the opposition seem to get several warnings.

First bit of aggression ?
Jesus, if only .

[GeneralFaye]

He's been treated differently cause it simply wasn't a red card was it? It was a cynical yellow card challenge that happens at least once in every football match. Don't let the subsequent injury influence your opinion, like it did with Twatkinson.

[Malcolm Clarke]

The FA Independent Commission has overruled a VAR decision, which shouldn't happen because they are both looking at video evidence and applying the laws of the game and the guidance on interpretation of same. To be fair to Martin Atkinson, he was advised to change to a red by the VAR official, apparently because of the severity of the injury, which is a factor which doesn't appear anywhere in either the laws or the guidance. In my opinion Atkinson in his original decision and the FA Commission got it right, the VAR official ( Anthony Taylor wasn't it ? ) didn't.

In answer to the original question, I agree with points made by other posters. Unlike Son I don't personally think Shawcross even committed a foul. It was two players running full tilt for a 50/50 ball. Neither player left the ground. Shawcross was actually slightly pulled back by an Arsenal player and got there a fraction of a second after Ramsey. But what happened was nothing like so obvious on the video as the Son case. That and the very different responses of the injured player's manager and the player himself led to the witchunt of Shawcross, as well as the fact that he is a 'traditional' centre half whereas Son is a totally different type of player.

[philb]

Nov 7, 2019 10:23:45 GMT boskampsflaps said:

It wasn't against a team with a clear vendetta against them, if the Shawcross tackle had been against anyone else I can't see it would have gone that badly.

Correct. That was Arsenal for you in those days. Try to win and cheat at all costs. No surprise when they had Fabregas in their team though.

[nottsover60]

Nov 7, 2019 13:30:59 GMT sheds1862 said:

Nov 7, 2019 10:02:24 GMT nottsover60 said:

All the above plus the fact that Pulis had made us into a team that everyone hated and thought of as thugs. Good fun at first but got a bit tiresome and is one of the reasons I don't want him back. Strangely the reputation seems to have stuck to us rather than him - even now referees seem to think they've got to clamp down on the first bit of aggression they see from us and our players get booked for their first foul whereas the opposition seem to get several warnings.

First bit of aggression ?
Jesus, if only .

That's exactly what I mean. We watch Stoke being passive then one player like Badou, Etebo, Allen or Clucas commit a foul and immediately get booked. Badou in particular gets very wound up about it.