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Post by silsdenstokie on Oct 31, 2019 21:14:34 GMT
This thread is as good a place as any to share an anecdote from today. I work with a Millwall fan. Today he said, without any histrionics or laughter that Stoke on Saturday was the worst away performance he can remember in years. And the post match consensus in the pub was that Stoke are nailed on to go down. "Sorry mate but your lot were absolutely woeful." In terms of disillusionment I just said "I know". A Wednesday fan I work with was similarly scathing of our performance at theirs last week. He could not believe how much worse we were than the team that drew 2-2 there last season ☹️
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Post by Davef on Oct 31, 2019 21:16:05 GMT
When we were embarrassing ourselves in the 80s and 90s, there was always the chance to day dream that one day we'd be taken over by a multi-millionaire and that we'd make it up into the Premier League. Well, that happened of course, but in your worst nightmares did you ever think that we'd end up more or less back where we started? I don't think you can compare this situation with what went on under the likes of Mills, Ball, Bates and Little. There's no excuse for this. So it happened to us, just like dozens and dozens of clubs before us. With the exception of the big 6 and Everton, is there any club that has had sustained success with no fall off? Come to think of it, the big six are not immune to it either. Who'd have thought that Liverpool would spend 30 years without winning a League title after winning it 11 out of 18 times (and ending outside the top 2 only once!) just before that? Or that Manchester United after being Champions 13 times in 22 years and never less than third (3 times), would only get one runner up spot in the next 6 years? So we're in our slump. What to do? Cry & scream? Or endure it bravely, knowing it's just a slump and we will be back? Frustrated, yes. Sad, yes. Disinterested, NEVER! Dozens and dozens of clubs haven't been relegated from the Premier League (after a ten year stay) and found themselves in real danger of relegation to League One within two years. The majority of relegated clubs manage to pick themselves us and become, at the very least, competitive in this division.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 21:35:55 GMT
When we were embarrassing ourselves in the 80s and 90s, there was always the chance to day dream that one day we'd be taken over by a multi-millionaire and that we'd make it up into the Premier League. Well, that happened of course, but in your worst nightmares did you ever think that we'd end up more or less back where we started? I don't think you can compare this situation with what went on under the likes of Mills, Ball, Bates and Little. There's no excuse for this. So it happened to us, just like dozens and dozens of clubs before us. With the exception of the big 6 and Everton, is there any club that has had sustained success with no fall off? Come to think of it, the big six are not immune to it either. Who'd have thought that Liverpool would spend 30 years without winning a League title after winning it 11 out of 18 times (and ending outside the top 2 only once!) just before that? Or that Manchester United after being Champions 13 times in 22 years and never less than third (3 times), would only get one runner up spot in the next 6 years? So we're in our slump. What to do? Cry & scream? Or endure it bravely, knowing it's just a slump and we will be back? Frustrated, yes. Sad, yes. Disinterested, NEVER! This post surely wins the decade award. In ten years I have never seen so much crap posted in a single post. It certainly takes someone very "special" to do that.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 31, 2019 21:50:07 GMT
Have had little to say up to now but not because of fury or worse, indifference, but simply heartbroken. As Dave F says, it could all have been avoided, two seasons ago. Instead it has been compounded. Beyond belief. However, we are not yet sunk and we are now needed more than ever. Don’t get your armchair ready but come along on Monday and get behind the lads. And ditto the Barnsley game, such a Potentially vital six-pointer. Monica As posted our demise and current position is completely different than those of decades ago. This time around we’ve lost so much with so much on the table. The utter incompetence and laissez faire attitude of the leadership is unforgivable. However “yet again” supporters are asked to be patient and supportive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 22:01:38 GMT
Have had little to say up to now but not because of fury or worse, indifference, but simply heartbroken. As Dave F says, it could all have been avoided, two seasons ago. Instead it has been compounded. Beyond belief. However, we are not yet sunk and we are now needed more than ever. Don’t get your armchair ready but come along on Monday and get behind the lads. And ditto the Barnsley game, such a Potentially vital six-pointer. Monica As posted our demise and current position is completely different than those of decades ago. This time around we’ve lost so much with so much on the table. The utter incompetence and laissez faire attitude of the leadership is unforgivable. However “yet again” supporters are asked to be patient and supportive. Well if it is correct that the blithering idiot Jon Coates has held the reins for the last three or so years, it is all very understandable. He certainly got down to action quickly and produced results. Could anyone else have fucked things up so fast?
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 31, 2019 22:05:16 GMT
Money doesn't guarantee success in football, but it sure helps.
The owners got us into the PL and kept us there for ten years, that's no mean achievement.
It's gone badly wrong for now but we will recover from this and as fans we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, many clubs have it far worse.
If Nathan wins the next few games then the recovery maybe underway, if not the Board need to go out and get someone who can deliver the results we expect.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2019 22:32:26 GMT
Money doesn't guarantee success in football, but it sure helps. The owners got us into the PL and kept us there for ten years, that's no mean achievement. It's gone badly wrong for now but we will recover from this and as fans we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, many clubs have it far worse. If Nathan wins the next few games then the recovery maybe underway, if not the Board need to go out and get someone who can deliver the results we expect. They think money does guarantee success, that's the point.
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 31, 2019 22:42:04 GMT
The Brian Little season was worse. However I have a bad feeling that our current plunge will take us to a level worse than Brian Little managed. Still shivering from reading that. I truly believe John Coates' judgement is so limited that I wouldn't be shocked to see a Brian Little comeback. That's where my disillusionment really lies. We've had squads of apparently nondescript players before and decent managers have got a tune out of them. And we've had managers anywhere on the spectrum between awesome and clinically insane. But I don't think I've ever, ever had less faith in the board's instinct for how to run a football club.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 31, 2019 22:49:57 GMT
Money doesn't guarantee success in football, but it sure helps. The owners got us into the PL and kept us there for ten years, that's no mean achievement. It's gone badly wrong for now but we will recover from this and as fans we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, many clubs have it far worse. If Nathan wins the next few games then the recovery maybe underway, if not the Board need to go out and get someone who can deliver the results we expect. They think money does guarantee success, that's the point. If they think it's just about money then this is a massive wake up call.
We all know that to be successful we need good owners, a good manager and good players.
Structures are fine but it's not structures that guarantee success, it's the right people.
The Board aren't going anywhere so they need to first sort out the key postion of manager, I suspect the next few games will force their hand one way or another.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 23:09:15 GMT
They think money does guarantee success, that's the point.
We all know that to be successful we need good owners, a good manager and good players.
Where are we to find them though?
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 31, 2019 23:15:45 GMT
We all know that to be successful we need good owners, a good manager and good players.
Where are we to find them though? We have the right owners and we have some good players, so Nathan has to deliver now or be replaced.
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Post by onionman on Nov 1, 2019 0:05:07 GMT
The Brian Little season was worse. However I have a bad feeling that our current plunge will take us to a level worse than Brian Little managed. Still shivering from reading that. I truly believe John Coates' judgement is so limited that I wouldn't be shocked to see a Brian Little comeback. That's where my disillusionment really lies. We've had squads of apparently nondescript players before and decent managers have got a tune out of them. And we've had managers anywhere on the spectrum between awesome and clinically insane. But I don't think I've ever, ever had less faith in the board's instinct for how to run a football club. As bad as it was, we still finished in the top half under Brian Little. In between the 4-0 defeats, we beat teams like York and Lincoln. We had players like Graham Kavanagh who at least tried to take a game by the scruff of a neck. That kind of stuff is a pipe dream right now.
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Post by stokiejoe on Nov 1, 2019 16:53:05 GMT
Sadly we have been worse than this so no surprises. We have to believe the only way is up, fortunately Stoke fans are resilient, optimistic and probably deluded enough to carry on supporting regardless.
Keep buggering on as Churchill said.
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Post by GoBoks on Nov 1, 2019 19:03:40 GMT
So it happened to us, just like dozens and dozens of clubs before us. With the exception of the big 6 and Everton, is there any club that has had sustained success with no fall off? Come to think of it, the big six are not immune to it either. Who'd have thought that Liverpool would spend 30 years without winning a League title after winning it 11 out of 18 times (and ending outside the top 2 only once!) just before that? Or that Manchester United after being Champions 13 times in 22 years and never less than third (3 times), would only get one runner up spot in the next 6 years? So we're in our slump. What to do? Cry & scream? Or endure it bravely, knowing it's just a slump and we will be back? Frustrated, yes. Sad, yes. Disinterested, NEVER! Dozens and dozens of clubs haven't been relegated from the Premier League (after a ten year stay) and found themselves in real danger of relegation to League One within two years. The majority of relegated clubs manage to pick themselves us and become, at the very least, competitive in this division. Football didn't start with the Premier League. What is competitive? Above 8th, 10th, 12th? I think you'll be surprised at the number of clubs that spend several years before finally getting back up. To illustrate the point, below is a list of "proper" clubs that have been in the top flight. Next to the club name is a number - This is the number of times they have been relegated from the TOP FLIGHT and failed to come back up for a minimum of 4 years. Next to that is a Y or N (yes/no) answering did at least one of these occurrences happen in the Premier League era. Finally some have a LOW, indicator, indicating that on at least one occurrence the team was actually relegated to a lower division before they ever came back to the top flight. Arsenal, 0 (Everton and Arsenal are the only 2 clubs to avoid this altogether - both by the skin of their teeth) Aston Villa, 1, N, Birmingham City, 6, Y, LOW Blackburn Rovers, 3,, Y, LOW Blackpool, 3, Y, LOW Bolton Wanderers, 3, Y, LOW Burnley, 5, Y, LOW Charlton,3, Y, LOW Chelsea, 2, N Coventry, 1, Y, LOW Crystal Palace, 4, Y, LOW Derby County, 7, Y, LOW Everton, 0 Fulham, 3, Y, LOW Huddersfield, 2, N, LOW Ipswich Town, 4, Y, LOW Leeds Utd, 4, Y, LOW Leicester, 4, Y, LOW Liverpool, 1, N Man City, 1, Y, LOW Man Utd, 2, N Middlesbrough, 4, Y, LOW Newcastle Utd, 4, N Norwich, 2, Y Nottingham Forest, 4, Y, LOW Notts County, 4, Y, LOW Portsmouth, 3, Y, LOW Preston, 2, N, Low QPR, 4, Y, LOW Sheffield Wednesday, 4, Y, LOW Sheffield Utd, 6, Y, LOW Southampton, 2, Y, LOW Stoke, 4, N, LOW Sunderland, 4, Y, LOW Tottenham, 2, N Watford, 3, Y, LOW West Brom, 4, Y, LOW West Ham, 1, N Wolves, 4, Y, LOW That's 36 clubs and 108 instances where this has happened, (and excludes all the "pretenders" like Cardiff, Wrexham, Orient, Barnsley, Swindon, Bradford, Oldsham, Wimbledon, Swansea, Brighton, Bournemouth, Bury, etc, etc). Interesting to note that of those who have sufferred a 4 or more year break from the top flight, only West Ham, Spurs, Norwich, Newcastle, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa have not had the indignity of sinking to an even lower division during their 4 or more year absence from the top flight. <singing> Always look on the brighter side of life ........ We could be Port Vale fans!
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Post by GoBoks on Nov 1, 2019 19:08:10 GMT
So it happened to us, just like dozens and dozens of clubs before us. With the exception of the big 6 and Everton, is there any club that has had sustained success with no fall off? Come to think of it, the big six are not immune to it either. Who'd have thought that Liverpool would spend 30 years without winning a League title after winning it 11 out of 18 times (and ending outside the top 2 only once!) just before that? Or that Manchester United after being Champions 13 times in 22 years and never less than third (3 times), would only get one runner up spot in the next 6 years? So we're in our slump. What to do? Cry & scream? Or endure it bravely, knowing it's just a slump and we will be back? Frustrated, yes. Sad, yes. Disinterested, NEVER! This post surely wins the decade award. In ten years I have never seen so much crap posted in a single post. It certainly takes someone very "special" to do that. <takes a bow> Special indeed! Just as a matter of interest what part is crap? Or are you one of those "special needs" people who think anything that doesn't align with their thinking is crap? As shown in my more recent post, apart from Everton and Arsenal, there is no club that has not suffered a reversal of fortunes after being in the top flight. Back your argument up with facts.
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