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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 29, 2019 23:45:43 GMT
Stats help to tell a story and provide you with reasons as to why things are going wrong. They are immensely helpful and used by most football clubs even if they are somewhat underdeveloped in comparison to their North American counterparts for instance. I think they key part comes in the credence still given to the āeye testā which put the stats into context. For example, a lot of the xG stuff bears out pretty well. Take the Charlton game for instance, Butland drops a weak shot from a position youād never expect a goal from whilst we hit the post and miss sitters from 6 yards out. The stats back up thereās a clear disparity between what should happen and what is happening. I think the issue is, a lot of these stats are only actually useful to coaching staff because they have the agency to act on them. I think most fans simply see stats as āyeah but the score was this so it doesnāt matterā. Thereās no doubt that statistically speaking we probably should have regressed to a mean and should he mid-table ish (according to this metric) but its not been the case for any number of reasons possibly explained by as of yet under developed metrics and intangibles. Ultimately, they point out issues, but its down to the talent to then try and resolve them, which is where the point of departure is, stats alone donāt improve players, the quality of the coaching staff does.
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Post by rawli on Oct 30, 2019 6:33:50 GMT
Stats help to tell a story and provide you with reasons as to why things are going wrong. They are immensely helpful and used by most football clubs even if they are somewhat underdeveloped in comparison to their North American counterparts for instance. I think they key part comes in the credence still given to the āeye testā which put the stats into context. For example, a lot of the xG stuff bears out pretty well. Take the Charlton game for instance, Butland drops a weak shot from a position youād never expect a goal from whilst we hit the post and miss sitters from 6 yards out. The stats back up thereās a clear disparity between what should happen and what is happening. I think the issue is, a lot of these stats are only actually useful to coaching staff because they have the agency to act on them. I think most fans simply see stats as āyeah but the score was this so it doesnāt matterā. Thereās no doubt that statistically speaking we probably should have regressed to a mean and should he mid-table ish (according to this metric) but its not been the case for any number of reasons possibly explained by as of yet under developed metrics and intangibles. Ultimately, they point out issues, but its down to the talent to then try and resolve them, which is where the point of departure is, stats alone donāt improve players, the quality of the coaching staff does. Watched Moneyball last night for the first time. Absolutely fascinating insight into the use of statistics and analysis in baseball. It gave me some (probably false) hope that Jones has some masterplan that the rest of us can't see. No doubt it's bollocks but his constant quoting of stats perhaps points to this.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Oct 30, 2019 7:14:07 GMT
This is him and his fascinating tweet.
What a ballbag
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 30, 2019 8:01:15 GMT
Heās blocked me for living in the real world and not this fantasy world heās created for himself If you're not blocked by this idiot already you aren't doing Twitter right š
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 30, 2019 8:11:11 GMT
Using a random sample such as the Fulham and Swansea games, it clearly shows we will win the league with an all time points record.
What's the fuss about?
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Post by thevoid on Oct 30, 2019 9:01:31 GMT
This lad definitely seems like he's on 'the spectrum'.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 30, 2019 9:05:58 GMT
Why people are getting so angry with the bloke is beyond me? Because people tend to prefer opinion to facts. Opinion is harmless, facts (i.e. the truth) sometimes hurt. that said, I have no idea how to define unlucky. Alan Ballās definition in reverse might be something like āI donāt know what unlucky is, but you donāt want itā. How is it fact? Xg is a subjective measurement.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 30, 2019 9:06:27 GMT
This is him and his fascinating tweet. What a ballbag Ah it's him. He hoped my family would die in a fire. He's a nice lad.
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Post by chigstoke on Oct 30, 2019 9:24:43 GMT
This is him and his fascinating tweet. What a ballbag Ah it's him. He hoped my family would die in a fire. He's a nice lad. What the fuck, why in the hell did he say that? With his track record I'm assuming something to do with Jones! As Alan Partridge would say, 'He's a mentalist!'
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 30, 2019 9:31:34 GMT
Ah it's him. He hoped my family would die in a fire. He's a nice lad. What the fuck, why in the hell did he say that? With his track record I'm assuming something to do with Jones! As Alan Partridge would say, 'He's a mentalist!' We were talking about Greenfall hence the insult.
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Post by mrred on Oct 30, 2019 9:43:40 GMT
If you're going to set yourself up as 'Stoke Analytics', keep your personal opinions to your personal account. Especially if your opinions are wildly out.
I don't even really want Jones sacked as the cycle will continue with or without him, we've still got these underperforming pricks representing the club at the end of the day. But to post drivel like that...
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Post by Gods on Oct 30, 2019 9:46:50 GMT
In the round I like these kind of stats and I think they can be indicative of showing if not bad luck then at least small areas you can improve, shooting on target or eradicating daft defensive errors, which would make a huge difference if you are broadly speaking playing okay
It's his commentary I have an issue with.
I'm not clear what he means about 6 points from the last 4 games being 'huge underperformance on the past' ? It's quite the opposite, we hadn't won for 6 months before that.
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Post by chigstoke on Oct 30, 2019 9:49:45 GMT
What the fuck, why in the hell did he say that? With his track record I'm assuming something to do with Jones! As Alan Partridge would say, 'He's a mentalist!' We were talking about Greenfall hence the insult. How very charming of him. And a delightful topic for him to make such a comment on. I've had his personal account on mute for quite some time now so never see anything he tweets on there, thankfully.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 30, 2019 9:54:46 GMT
Stats help to tell a story and provide you with reasons as to why things are going wrong. They are immensely helpful and used by most football clubs even if they are somewhat underdeveloped in comparison to their North American counterparts for instance. I think they key part comes in the credence still given to the āeye testā which put the stats into context. For example, a lot of the xG stuff bears out pretty well. Take the Charlton game for instance, Butland drops a weak shot from a position youād never expect a goal from whilst we hit the post and miss sitters from 6 yards out. The stats back up thereās a clear disparity between what should happen and what is happening. I think the issue is, a lot of these stats are only actually useful to coaching staff because they have the agency to act on them. I think most fans simply see stats as āyeah but the score was this so it doesnāt matterā. Thereās no doubt that statistically speaking we probably should have regressed to a mean and should he mid-table ish (according to this metric) but its not been the case for any number of reasons possibly explained by as of yet under developed metrics and intangibles. Ultimately, they point out issues, but its down to the talent to then try and resolve them, which is where the point of departure is, stats alone donāt improve players, the quality of the coaching staff does. Watched Moneyball last night for the first time. Absolutely fascinating insight into the use of statistics and analysis in baseball. It gave me some (probably false) hope that Jones has some masterplan that the rest of us can't see. No doubt it's bollocks but his constant quoting of stats perhaps points to this. Moneyball is probably the most famous example of how stats can aid recruitment, the key thing about it is the fact it was then adopted by bigger franchises like Boston who ended up winning the World Series on the back of it. In football, Brentford are possibly the best example of using stats to find and recruit undervalued assets in Premier League academies or up and coming stars from league 2. They bring them in, they play to their strengths, develop them and sell them on for ludicrous profit. Now imagine we spent 10-20 million on developing that approach but our extra cash allowing us to retain the playing resources we bring in. I reckon it would certainly have been better than Rowettās āoh he looks good and has played in the Premier League, get him inā approach that has left us with a surfeit of shit.
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 30, 2019 10:53:50 GMT
This is him and his fascinating tweet. What a ballbag Yeah, has to be him...I've been blocked by both his and the Stoke Analytics account for disagreeing with him. His intense Tweeting style suggests he could perhaps do with visiting his GP quite soon. Seems to take everything far too personally.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 30, 2019 10:57:19 GMT
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 30, 2019 11:14:38 GMT
This is him and his fascinating tweet. What a ballbag Yeah, has to be him...I've been blocked by both his and the Stoke Analytics account for disagreeing with him. His intense Tweeting style suggests he could perhaps do with visiting his GP quite soon. Seems to take everything far too personally. This is the only problem with the account I have, I think some of the flack he's copped for what he admits is nuance is really unfair. But some of the posts he's replied with have just been condescending. I think if you run an account like that you have a duty to caveat your stats with the evidence in front of your eyes too, Blades Analytics (who got a job at Pboro on the back of his stats) is a good example of that.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Oct 30, 2019 11:15:30 GMT
Because people tend to prefer opinion to facts. Opinion is harmless, facts (i.e. the truth) sometimes hurt. that said, I have no idea how to define unlucky. Alan Ballās definition in reverse might be something like āI donāt know what unlucky is, but you donāt want itā. How is it fact? Xg is a subjective measurement. Indeed. He (I assume it's a "he", but I don't know) is presenting opinion as fact. He's the 21st Century equivalent of the bloke in the pub, drawing a general conclusion from the most selective of evidence. Dressing it up in the quasi-scientific clobber of "Analytics" is a smokescreen, and a very poor one at that. To put a tin lid on it, he seems to respond to challenge by ignoring it. Mind you, in a world where the most influential of our leaders simply dismiss opposition as "fake news", his approach is hardly surprising.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Oct 30, 2019 19:30:37 GMT
Why people are getting so angry with the bloke is beyond me? because some don't like others with a considered view so instead of ignoring or debating properly, they pass sarky comments in their sentinel columns or go "what about the table" as if there's relevant. And they have a problem with young fans expressing opinions on the club, young fans who were the first to be Hughes Out regularly got stick
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Post by wakeypotter on Oct 30, 2019 19:50:06 GMT
If we achieve the same points as we have got in the last 4 games we will be over achieving. Like you say deluded
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 30, 2019 19:54:05 GMT
Why people are getting so angry with the bloke is beyond me? because some don't like others with a considered view so instead of ignoring or debating properly, they pass sarky comments in their sentinel columns or go "what about the table" as if there's relevant.Ā And they have a problem with young fans expressing opinions on the club, young fans who were the first to be Hughes Out regularly got stickĀ Because he's acting like a loon and insulting/blocking anyone questioning his completely selective "analysis" yet cries and accuses others of personal attacks. Loopy.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Oct 30, 2019 20:02:53 GMT
Stoke Analicker more like!
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Oct 30, 2019 20:48:47 GMT
I'm Rourkebikes, I couldn't believe what he writes hence my several questions.
Who is he? And where does he get his info from?
To be fair he's not blocked me, but to think we replicate last 4 games over last 32 he's nuts! I asked if he seriously thinks we'll win 16 games and get 56 points? He said yes!! Mentalist!! Win 10, draw 10, lose 12 will only get 48 points. I can't see us doing that, no matter what X Fucking G says!!
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Post by Little Gary Patel on Oct 30, 2019 22:13:53 GMT
since found it's not.
before edit; it's not sussexstoke on twitter
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Post by Little Gary Patel on Oct 30, 2019 22:15:22 GMT
In fairness he's been banging the drum all season about the stats suggesting we've been unlucky and should be higher in the table....... Which is bollocks of the highest order. we know you don't understand it. stop going on about it you relentless bore.
the shrewdest clubs in the world are using this as an important metric, and you just dismiss it either because 1. you don't understand it 2. you refuse to learn 3. Luddite edit to add: 0.1 - you know it all already
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Post by chigstoke on Oct 30, 2019 22:28:50 GMT
it's not sussexstoke on twitter It is. He's even got it in his Twitter bio.
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Post by Little Gary Patel on Oct 30, 2019 22:42:12 GMT
it's not sussexstoke on twitter It is. He's even got it in his Twitter bio. Apologies, had assumed it was someone else all this time
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 31, 2019 7:04:35 GMT
In the round I like these kind of stats and I think they can be indicative of showing if not bad luck then at least small areas you can improve, shooting on target or eradicating daft defensive errors, which would make a huge difference if you are broadly speaking playing okay It's his commentary I have an issue with. I'm not clear what he means about 6 points from the last 4 games being 'huge underperformance on the past' ? It's quite the opposite, we hadn't won for 6 months before that. That's exactly the issue I've got with it. Stating that we've underperformed and the xG stats back it up is fine, but what he doesn't seem to realise is that there is sometimes a damn good reason why the xG stats are what they are. if you're a team that create a lot but score little it suggests that your strikers are fucking awful. That's not going to necessarily change unless the strikers do. Same for conceding more goals than the stats say you should do: it could be because your keeper's rubbish just as much as it could be down to variance. Unfortunately he seems to have got fallen down the rabbithole of assuming that within these statistics lies the answer to life and that anyone who doesn't agree with his interpretation of them is an unenlightened idiot. There are some serious ego/narcissism issues bubbling under the surface of his tweets and he does come across as arrogant. A bit of humility when presenting a viewpoint that goes massively against the grain of popular opinion is always welcome, and would see people being far more receptive to a message that contradicts what they're seeing with their own eyes.
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Post by Gods on Oct 31, 2019 7:17:12 GMT
In the round I like these kind of stats and I think they can be indicative of showing if not bad luck then at least small areas you can improve, shooting on target or eradicating daft defensive errors, which would make a huge difference if you are broadly speaking playing okay It's his commentary I have an issue with. I'm not clear what he means about 6 points from the last 4 games being 'huge underperformance on the past' ? It's quite the opposite, we hadn't won for 6 months before that. That's exactly the issue I've got with it. Stating that we've underperformed and the xG stats back it up is fine, but what he doesn't seem to realise is that there is sometimes a damn good reason why the xG stats are what they are. if you're a team that create a lot but score little it suggests that your strikers are fucking awful. That's not going to necessarily change unless the strikers do. Same for conceding more goals than the stats say you should do: it could be because your keeper's rubbish just as much as it could be down to variance. Unfortunately he seems to have got fallen down the rabbithole of assuming that within these statistics lies the answer to life and that anyone who doesn't agree with his interpretation of them is an unenlightened idiot. There are some serious ego/narcissism issues bubbling under the surface of his tweets and he does come across as arrogant. A bit of humility when presenting a viewpoint that goes massively against the grain of popular opinion is always welcome, and would see people being far more receptive to a message that contradicts what they're seeing with their own eyes. Yes, it's no good saying if you keep having 20 shots a game then, law of averages, 3 of them will start flying in each game, if the same people are dispensing them with the same service. 84 matches in a row or whatever it is without more than 2 ever going in kind of tells you that! The learning from these stats should not be we've been unlucky for 2 seasons it's that we can't shoot straight to save our lives!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 31, 2019 7:23:23 GMT
Which is bollocks of the highest order. we know you don't understand it. stop going on about it you relentless bore.
the shrewdest clubs in the world are using this as an important metric, and you just dismiss it either because 1. you don't understand it 2. you refuse to learn 3. Luddite edit to add: 0.1 - you know it all already I fully understand it. Itās a subjective measurement that people throw around like its fact. Anyone with eyes can see we havenāt been unlucky this season.
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