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Post by thevoid on Sept 29, 2019 21:50:34 GMT
I think we need to face up to the possibility that the club may well have approached potential managers who've looked at the situation and said "thanks, but no thanks". We are in deep shit and if we can only attract Paul Lambert when we weren't exactly cut adrift in the Premier League, what makes you think we're going to attract Hughton and the great and saintly Pulis now? If we aren't going to sack Jones after last night's result, then what's the point? The club have made their bed and they now have to lie in it. Totally agree Dave. I fear Davesviews post last week was his way of telling us that TP has turned us down. If TP won’t come back, I can’t see Moyes or Hughton being interested. Or it could be that he isn't in the running, which would be nearer the mark? I mean, why would someone who loves the club (apparently) turn them down if they came calling in their hour of need?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 21:54:20 GMT
When? There was on time when he took Woods off. Has there been any other times he’s said it’s his own fault? Did he even explain the formation he used at Crawley? Did he explain why he brought Butland back and Allen when they are making the mistakes? Has he explained why he bought all the players he bought that aren’t playing when he’s not sure if the ones that are are playing for him? Has he explain why he can’t play two up top even though he apparently wants to? Has he has explained what all this amazing work he’s done off the pitch is at all? No. I didn’t think so. I can’t believe people are still buying this absolute waffle he comes out with. He's said plenty of times its on him, and he's right he's made plenty of mistakes and its to be expected when you have a manager thats relatively inexperienced. Allen is clearly a favorite not just of Jones but of every bloody manager since we signed him, I'm at a loss with that one tbh, and Butland who knows, he was/is a massive financial asset to club and we need him playing well, maybe the hope he turns it around comes from that but he isn't going to come out with that is he no manager would or maybe he thinks its a blip and he will find some form. I'd say its pretty obvious why he can't play two up top, the defenders can't be trusted and need as much help as possible. Just because I think our biggest problems have been down to individual errors doesn't mean I don't think he's fucked up, take Birmingham for example he went for a point and completely fucked it when it needed changing. Personally I'm not going off his waffle I'm going of whats happening on the pitch, how does another manager get this team creating the chances they are and suddenly be able to eradicate the constant individual mistakes, somebody said drop them but you can't drop everyone, you can go more defensive but no one seemed happy with that last season, I'm at a loss what a new manager does thats suddenly going to change things. He hasn’t said it’s on his because of his failings. He’s said everyone else’s falls on him. That defence is a mess. You say it’s just individual mistakes but it’s not. It’s a state. You could see what was going to happen in the warm up on Friday night. The size of their attackers and we’ve got Bruno and CCV as a CB pairing against them when neither are good in the air. The left back situation is of his making. It’s clear our defenders are too focussed on playing out from the back rather than focusing on their defensive duties. The left back situation is on him. Butland errors granted he can’t do much about but he keeps picking him. Danny Batth let a ball bounce. Allen missed two open goals but have you seen how many goal keeping bowlers there have been this weekend across the leagues? How many defenders lose their man? Most goals are from mistakes. Most of our goals have come from the other side’s poor set piece defending. It’s like mistakes don’t happen to anyone else. We haven’t created a load of chances. Teams are happy for us to come at them and hit us on the break. It’s not rocket science. We’re in a shit league, with shit teams and we are the shittest. Yet some people are happy because were aren’t totally incompetent for 30 minutes again. It’s not progress - it’s a million times worse than anything else over the last 3 years. We’ve won 4 games in 30 odd. We don’t even look like winning game. People need to wake up.
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 29, 2019 22:01:57 GMT
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Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 29, 2019 22:03:50 GMT
He's said plenty of times its on him, and he's right he's made plenty of mistakes and its to be expected when you have a manager thats relatively inexperienced. Allen is clearly a favorite not just of Jones but of every bloody manager since we signed him, I'm at a loss with that one tbh, and Butland who knows, he was/is a massive financial asset to club and we need him playing well, maybe the hope he turns it around comes from that but he isn't going to come out with that is he no manager would or maybe he thinks its a blip and he will find some form. I'd say its pretty obvious why he can't play two up top, the defenders can't be trusted and need as much help as possible. Just because I think our biggest problems have been down to individual errors doesn't mean I don't think he's fucked up, take Birmingham for example he went for a point and completely fucked it when it needed changing. Personally I'm not going off his waffle I'm going of whats happening on the pitch, how does another manager get this team creating the chances they are and suddenly be able to eradicate the constant individual mistakes, somebody said drop them but you can't drop everyone, you can go more defensive but no one seemed happy with that last season, I'm at a loss what a new manager does thats suddenly going to change things. He hasn’t said it’s on his because of his failings. He’s said everyone else’s falls on him. That defence is a mess. You say it’s just individual mistakes but it’s not. It’s a state. You could see what was going to happen in the warm up on Friday night. The size of their attackers and we’ve got Bruno and CCV as a CB pairing against them when neither are good in the air. The left back situation is of his making. It’s clear our defenders are too focussed on playing out from the back rather than focusing on their defensive duties. The left back situation is on him. Butland errors granted he can’t do much about but he keeps picking him. Danny Batth let a ball bounce. Allen missed two open goals but have you seen how many goal keeping bowlers there have been this weekend across the leagues? How many defenders lose their man? Most goals are from mistakes. Most of our goals have come from the other side’s poor set piece defending. It’s like mistakes don’t happen to anyone else. We haven’t created a load of chances. Teams are happy for us to come at them and hit us on the break. It’s not rocket science. We’re in a shit league, with shit teams and we are the shittest. Yet some people are happy because were aren’t totally incompetent for 30 minutes again. It’s not progress - it’s a million times worse than anything else over the last 3 years. We’ve won 4 games in 30 odd. We don’t even look like winning game. People need to wake up. People do indeed need to wake up. And I hope to fuck that on Tuesday night the Matrix finally reveals itself. I can’t take much more of this.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 29, 2019 22:06:04 GMT
Indeed. Not one single person was slating Jones for dropping Butland, not one but people are (rightly) slating Jones for only dropping him for one game, it was a token gesture, nothing more. Jones can't hide behind the excuse of players making mistakes, when he picks (and then makes captain) the biggest contributor to individual errors in the team. It's never Nathan's fault is it? Is it not, even when he himself admitted he dropped a bollock? Sorry maybe my post was a bit vague, what I was suggesting, is that ... it's never, ever, really his fault because even when he says it is, he doesn't actually believe it is, self evident by his latest comments.
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Post by somersetstokie on Sept 29, 2019 22:06:32 GMT
Just a semi reassuring matter of historic record for those still backing Nathan. At the start of 1990, Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson (long before he was made a Knight of the Realm) was in trouble and his side were struggling at the wrong end of the Division One table. A run of eight games without a win saw the once-great Red Devils staring relegation in the face. The accepted story is that Ferguson would have been sacked if they had been knocked out of the FA Cup by Nottingham Forest on January 7. United survived and the game proved to be a reprieve from those calling for Fergusons head. Yes, everyone has bad runs at some points in their career.
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 29, 2019 22:12:02 GMT
I struggle to think a 3m salary and 3m bonus for keeping us up wouldn’t tempt one of Hughton, Allardyce or Moyes. (Or Alex Neil or Warnock or Pearson or Michael Laudrup). It’s a challenging assignment that would enhance their reputation, at this point, by merely having us avoid relegation. Keep us up and you’ve a good job thereafter. But if it doesn’t, Jones has to go regardless. He simply can’t manage: he can’t prepare a team tactically or mentally, hence we cede any impetus, get out-manoeuvred and make errors. That’s not going to change. we’d need to go leftfield, but would still prefer to offer someone else a chance... Holloway, Maclaran, Grayson, Terry.... I was wondering why Laudrup's name wasn't coming up, along with Curbishly and the snowman. Laudrup is now a pundit on Spanish television, which he rather likes, and he hasn't really been employed in football properly since he got the sack at Swansea. Moreover he has stated that if he was to manage again it would have to been at the level of Barca or Real (both of whom he played). I know we can be great sometime in the next century, but why would he take a job here instead of there? Didn’t know ML had said that. Wow, what an ego! Your final question is the critical one? Who would this gig appeal to? The board need to spend big on this, but it would be a better investment of 4m than Smith or Lindsay.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 29, 2019 22:18:58 GMT
I agree with him, although it is probably time he went because the atmosphere will be toxic and that isn't good for anyone, but how is a new manager suddenly going to stop Butland from dropping the ball and get Edwards making better decisions, most of whats happening isn't down to coaching. Drop him. Dead easy but he’s a fucking coward.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 22:31:25 GMT
The blokes a fruit loop
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Post by TheProletarian on Sept 29, 2019 22:38:21 GMT
N’aww
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 29, 2019 22:55:00 GMT
People are making statements on here in absolute ignorance.
The club made a huge mistake in sacking Hughes with no replacement lined up to replace him, and they were actually "warned" by Hughes "Who's going to take the job?"
We were rejected by the O'Niel and Flores and there was a huge list of high profile managers in the offing, but we got Lambert, who thought he would never get another chance to manage a Prem team. My guess is there were lots of other managers/agents who said "You must be joking!"
We were in the Prem then, and not even bottom, with loads of high profile players. Now we are bottom of the Championship; get real who would want to manage Stoke?
The club has to stick with Jones until they find a better option; it is certainly not time to gable on another inexperienced manager.
So people can shout "Sack Jones" from the roof tops, but it is not going to happen till the club find someone better who wants the job or is not laying down unacceptable preconditions.
Hounding the Coates family is not an answer, they support the club far better than a lot of people appear to on this MB.
True fans will get behind the players on Tuesday night and cheer them on to victory.
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Post by FrankButcher on Sept 29, 2019 22:55:17 GMT
This very much reminds me of Hughes towards the end of his reign with his rants the "who else is going to do it??" Comes to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 23:11:41 GMT
If we win so what, we're officially the second most shite side.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 29, 2019 23:52:11 GMT
I agree with him, although it is probably time he went because the atmosphere will be toxic and that isn't good for anyone, but how is a new manager suddenly going to stop Butland from dropping the ball and get Edwards making better decisions, most of whats happening isn't down to coaching. Drop him. Dead easy but he’s a fucking coward. Fair enough but where does it stop, we'd have to drop everyone of them, we wouldn't have a team
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 30, 2019 0:14:19 GMT
People are making statements on here in absolute ignorance. The club made a huge mistake in sacking Hughes with no replacement lined up to replace him, and they were actually "warned" by Hughes "Who's going to take the job?" We were rejected by the O'Niel and Flores and there was a huge list of high profile managers in the offing, but we got Lambert, who thought he would never get another chance to manage a Prem team. My guess is there were lots of other managers/agents who said "You must be joking!" We were in the Prem then, and not even bottom, with loads of high profile players. Now we are bottom of the Championship; get real who would want to manage Stoke? The club has to stick with Jones until they find a better option; it is certainly not time to gable on another inexperienced manager. So people can shout "Sack Jones" from the roof tops, but it is not going to happen till the club find someone better who wants the job or is not laying down unacceptable preconditions. Hounding the Coates family is not an answer, they support the club far better than a lot of people appear to on this MB. True fans will get behind the players on Tuesday night and cheer them on to victory. No, they made a huge mistake in not sacking him early enough and by not already having a replacement lined up soon enough. And that was then but this is now and it isn't something that has just materilaised out of the blue, it's been a long time coming, indeed pretty much in slow motion, they're surely not going to leave it too late once again? ... oh hang on, they already have!
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Post by starkiller on Sept 30, 2019 1:10:30 GMT
Even with no manager at all, our results could not be any worse.
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 30, 2019 1:16:52 GMT
“As soon as people start doing their jobs, because I know I’m doing mine, we will pick up better results and start climbing and get confidence through this place.”
I try to be as charitable as possible with written transcriptions of interviews, because it’s off the cuff and things often don’t come out as you want, and then you can’t read the tone or whatever...
But fuck me. As soon as people start doing their jobs, because I know I’m doing mine. Fuck. Me.
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Post by Sfance on Sept 30, 2019 1:40:40 GMT
Leadership at its best.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Sept 30, 2019 1:45:25 GMT
He may as well as insist he's Napoleon Bonaparte,until he starts delivering a few results claims to being the right man for the job possess about as much credibility.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 30, 2019 2:05:07 GMT
Take your pick ... Crap Manager, Crap Players, Crap CEO, Crap Decision Making by Owners, Crap Gypsy that put a curse on us, Crap Fans wanting consistent instant success (that's not the Stoke DNA, you know), Crapity crap crap. Personally I think it's a bit of all the above, and I think it's going to take more than another manager change to resolve - hence, 3-6 years. I think that that is and has been the main issue and they're continuing that form right now, persisting with Jones. They've chosen poor managers, who have bought poor players and now they're hiding behind the sofa, hoping something will magically materialise, without them having to do anything themselves. So do you think we can get rid of or reform the owners and get back up to the PRem in less than 3-6 years?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 30, 2019 4:02:42 GMT
I think that that is and has been the main issue and they're continuing that form right now, persisting with Jones. They've chosen poor managers, who have bought poor players and now they're hiding behind the sofa, hoping something will magically materialise, without them having to do anything themselves. So do you think we can get rid of or reform the owners and get back up to the PRem in less than 3-6 years? Of course we can, look where WBA and Swansea sit in the table right now. It's all about making the right decisions, calling for time, is just an excuse for making the wrong decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 4:41:38 GMT
I was wondering why Laudrup's name wasn't coming up, along with Curbishly and the snowman. Laudrup is now a pundit on Spanish television, which he rather likes, and he hasn't really been employed in football properly since he got the sack at Swansea. Moreover he has stated that if he was to manage again it would have to been at the level of Barca or Real (both of whom he played). I know we can be great sometime in the next century, but why would he take a job here instead of there? Didn’t know ML had said that. Wow, what an ego! Your final question is the critical one? Who would this gig appeal to? The board need to spend big on this, but it would be a better investment of 4m than Smith or Lindsay. I've already stated several times that no sane manager would take the job, so I can't answer that question, especially as I happen to think, possibly against my better judgment, that we should stick with Jones. The owners seem to think so too, so all this 'who' discussion is purely academical.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 5:27:49 GMT
No one else want the job then?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 6:01:44 GMT
When we appointed Hughes many years ago, Peter Coates gave a very rare interview on the recruitment process of a manager and I remember clearly a throw away line he dropped in.
"You always keep your toe in the market to see what is available and who is ready to come in, because you just never know whether you need to sack a a manager or have to replace a manager who leaves."
Quite.
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 30, 2019 6:03:34 GMT
“As soon as people start doing their jobs, because I know I’m doing mine, we will pick up better results and start climbing and get confidence through this place.” I try to be as charitable as possible with written transcriptions of interviews, because it’s off the cuff and things often don’t come out as you want, and then you can’t read the tone or whatever... But fuck me. As soon as people start doing their jobs, because I know I’m doing mine. Fuck. Me. Arrogance personified. If you were doing your job Nathan we would be winning games of football is that correct? Delusions of grandeur
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Post by milky on Sept 30, 2019 6:25:57 GMT
Imo we are where we are mainly due to 3 catastrophic decisions/ non decisions within a 12 month period.
Firstly the ridiculous dithering over Hughes, secondly appointing Lambert and finally deciding to throw money at it in the hope of an instant return and giving Rowett the job.
Jones was just a gamble, trying something different which is what a lot , me included , wanted.I still say even though its gone tits up ,which was always the risk, it was a gamble worth taking bearing in mind what he had going at Luton.
It looks like the 4th catastrophic non decision is to dither again over getting shut of Jones before its too late.If they are ready to pull the plug to leave him still in charge for such a massive game on Tuesday beggars belief,it really does.
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Post by greenman on Sept 30, 2019 6:39:20 GMT
It`s no use getting rid of the manager if the board remains the same, that is the root of our problem.
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Post by DC1863 on Sept 30, 2019 6:40:24 GMT
He may as well as insist he's Napoleon Bonaparte,until he starts delivering a few results claims to being the right man for the job possess about as much credibility. I like the guy but at the minute he's more Napoleon Dynamite.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 6:49:39 GMT
All the goals on Friday came from having no centre backs who can head a ball away, and the full backs being shit.
As a manager you cover your deficiencies as best you can, but that never enters his thoughts. Hence, he's been messing about playing 3 centre backs at times when we haven't yet mastered a more basic formation.
He should have settled on his most experienced back for initially, with Smith, Batth, Bruno and ward, maybe bringing in Collins for Bruno gradually.
He didn't need carter vickers or lindsay, he's just added to his problems by bringing them in.
So badly thought out, like Rowett last summer
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 7:10:59 GMT
He may as well as insist he's Napoleon Bonaparte,until he starts delivering a few results claims to being the right man for the job possess about as much credibility. I like the guy but at the minute he's more Napoleon Dynamite. At least we know he doesn't do jumps, as our right backs keep getting done on the back stick!
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