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Post by Billybigbollox on Sept 28, 2019 10:38:27 GMT
We have decent players that are very low in confidence...especially at the back. We have a good manager that Likes to play confident attacking football That’s the problem in my opinion I hate to say this but, a season or two of Tony Pullis will bring confidence and structure back to the whole team But........I’m fucked if I want to watch it. No one wants to watch this shite either though Mary. Jones looks completely lost out there. It’s like he can’t see the problems that are staring all of us in the face. We have a keeper and a right back who keep fucking up, a left back that is at best an average left midfielder, who keeps fucking up. A striker who has scored 1 in 16 and a bunch of very average players trying to play a system they don’t seem to understand. They are all problems of his making. He picks the team, he sets them up and he takes the plaudits when things go well. Unfortunately he gets the blame when things don’t work out and we can all see that it is not working out. I have yet to see any of this confident attacking football that he spouts on about. Just utter utter garbage game after game.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 28, 2019 10:40:56 GMT
The players are utter horsewank.
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Post by musik on Sept 28, 2019 10:47:11 GMT
It must be a staff communication and understanding problem.
We have the players. We have NJ.
But as I understand it, apart from them we also have an assistent manager and several coaches?!?
I think the players get too much info to keep track of, and it isn't synced.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 28, 2019 10:52:07 GMT
...much better. Unfortunately we have a clueless manager who doesn't know how to make this team gel and to get the best out of every individual. His chopping and changing of personell and systems all the time doesn't make it any better either. Why he decided to get rid of our only left back without replacing him is also someting that is hard to understand. Instead he brought in another right back, and after yesterday's performance by Edwards it's easy to see why, but Edwards was coming good at the end of last season so why not prioritise a left back instead? The purchase of Hogan was also a strange one as it meant our young and upcoming striker hardly would get chances to play. This after a very good preseason by Campbell as well. I also think we brought in one central defender too many which means our own talented young central defender are put further down in the pecking order. I really can't understand why the owners take the risk to stand by this man any longer as it's glaring obvious he will take us down. We need the change now so the new manager can have enough time on his hand to turn these bad times around. This is the myth that has been at the heart of our decline , too good to come down from the Prem , underachieved last season. Name the good players who actually want to be at the club and you will struggle to fill the fingers of one hand . I don't agree with you on that one. I actually think a lot of the other teams would love to have our squad of players. You can see in patches that there are a lot of good players there, but as a team we have struggled. Why? Well, first of all we lost Ryan at a crucial point, secondly we didn't get the needed results to build up our confidence, Butland in addition didn't get his wanted move, lost his place in the national squad and his confidence went out the window too after some unfocused games. Jones' attempt to play a formation he didn't have the players for, which led to all the changing of formation and personell didn't do any good either. I actually don't think he knows his best 11 yet, and he'll hopefully never find out either before he is shown the door. We need a change now to bring some optimism back, nobody really believes the tide will turn with Jones here now. He has been in charge of this team for around 35 games now and he still hasn't got a clue about what to do to turn it around. Action is neeeded NOW!
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 10:53:02 GMT
If you can watch a replay of the match and compare our crosses to Forest's. We were brilliant as an attacking force at working the ball to our wide players to knock crosses into the box. Apart from the free kick for the second none of the resulting crosses went near a team mate. On the other hand Forest's three goals all came from three accurate crosses onto somebody's head and they were probably their only three crosses all night. Even our first came from a Forest clearance which dropped to Ince. Now tell me we have players who are good enough. They can't even be bothered to practise the skills their job requires. Yes they lack confidence but I believe the way to gain confidence isn't to wait for a bit of luck or things to drop for you but to work so hard on your skills that you carry out the fundamentals in your sleep and don't over hit or under hit crosses or let the ball bounce off you or pass the ball yards away from where you want it to go.
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Post by Billybigbollox on Sept 28, 2019 10:58:47 GMT
If you can watch a replay of the match and compare our crosses to Forest's. We were brilliant as an attacking force at working the ball to our wide players to knock crosses into the box. Apart from the free kick for the second none of the resulting crosses went near a team mate. On the other hand Forest's three goals all came from three accurate crosses onto somebody's head and they were probably their only three crosses all night. Even our first came from a Forest clearance which dropped to Ince. Now tell me we have players who are good enough. They can't even be bothered to practise the skills their job requires. Yes they lack confidence but I believe the way to gain confidence isn't to wait for a bit of luck or things to drop for you but to work so hard on your skills that you carry out the fundamentals in your sleep and don't over hit or under hit crosses or let the ball bounce off you or pass the ball yards away from where you want it to go. We haven’t had anyone who can cross the ball since we came down. My Grandma could put a better ball in than most of this shitshow.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 28, 2019 10:59:34 GMT
If you can watch a replay of the match and compare our crosses to Forest's. We were brilliant as an attacking force at working the ball to our wide players to knock crosses into the box. Apart from the free kick for the second none of the resulting crosses went near a team mate. On the other hand Forest's three goals all came from three accurate crosses onto somebody's head and they were probably their only three crosses all night. Even our first came from a Forest clearance which dropped to Ince. Now tell me we have players who are good enough. They can't even be bothered to practise the skills their job requires. Yes they lack confidence but I believe the way to gain confidence isn't to wait for a bit of luck or things to drop for you but to work so hard on your skills that you carry out the fundamentals in your sleep and don't over hit or under hit crosses or let the ball bounce off you or pass the ball yards away from where you want it to go. I wouldn’t say any of the crosses for their goals could be described as ‘accurate’. The first was straight to the keeper and also offside, the second was just crossed into space and would have been dealt with by a competent defence and the third should have been cleared by Bruno. The difference was that we couldn’t clear their crosses and they had no problem clearing ours all night.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 28, 2019 10:59:35 GMT
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but I gotta say I don't agree with any of this: At the back, I would say we are in a catastrophic state in terms of strength and depth. Not a big fan of BMI but he is quite possibly the only defender we have good enough for this level. Yes, our defensive players are low on confidence, but when you combine that with their low quality you get the omnishambles we watched yesterday. Do we have a good manager that likes to play confident attacking football? I am lost with that one. Download praise and grumble and listen to Lawrence. Yesterday was a decent watch and we created chances, but that has not been the norm - under NJ we have been one of the lowest-scoring teams in all 4 divisions. All the good things yesterday were driven by 1 player who tried to take Forest on - on his own. A season or two of Pulis will bring confidence and structure back to the whole team? You don't want to watch players with confidence and a team that can defend and have structure are you saying we would be better to stick with NJ and lose every game because the football would be better. The only decent atmospheres we have had at the Brit were under Pulis. Atmospheres are generated by what the team are doing on the pitch Well said. The current situation is made for a Tony Pulis miracle. He has done it plenty of times before and he can do it again. Thinking about it march, I reckon you've done those of us that are horrified at the thought of his return a massive favour with your lifelong TP bollocks. Maybe the vote to have all TP threads binned would've gone the other way if it wasn't for you. I never thought I'd say it, but thanks
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 11:02:40 GMT
Edwards could cross a ball when he first came in. It's probably lack of confidence but that can be overcome by practising swinging crosses in by yourself if necessary. It is a closed skill to some extent like throwing a dart... the more you practise the more in the groove the skill becomes. You can't control a lot of things in a game of football but you can control how well you pass, cross or control the ball.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 11:09:22 GMT
If you can watch a replay of the match and compare our crosses to Forest's. We were brilliant as an attacking force at working the ball to our wide players to knock crosses into the box. Apart from the free kick for the second none of the resulting crosses went near a team mate. On the other hand Forest's three goals all came from three accurate crosses onto somebody's head and they were probably their only three crosses all night. Even our first came from a Forest clearance which dropped to Ince. Now tell me we have players who are good enough. They can't even be bothered to practise the skills their job requires. Yes they lack confidence but I believe the way to gain confidence isn't to wait for a bit of luck or things to drop for you but to work so hard on your skills that you carry out the fundamentals in your sleep and don't over hit or under hit crosses or let the ball bounce off you or pass the ball yards away from where you want it to go. I wouldn’t say any of the crosses for their goals could be described as ‘accurate’. The first was straight to the keeper and also offside, the second was just crossed into space and would have been dealt with by a competent defence and the third should have been cleared by Bruno. The difference was that we couldn’t clear their crosses and they had no problem clearing ours all night. You really think that? The reason Jack dropped the ball is that it was going straight onto Grabban's head without him having to move. In trying to catch the ball Butland had to jump into him. The second was right on Ameobi's head. Our defence could have done better but it was an excellent cross. Please tell me when we ever crossed the ball so that forward didn't have to move to get to it. And Forest's defence has not been good all season... they have probably conceded almost as many chances as we have but luck has been with them so to say they had no problems clearing our crosses says more about the quality of our crosses than the ability of their defenders.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 11:39:58 GMT
We have decent players that are very low in confidence...especially at the back. We have a good manager that Likes to play confident attacking football That’s the problem in my opinion I hate to say this but, a season or two of Tony Pullis will bring confidence and structure back to the whole team But........I’m fucked if I want to watch it. No one wants to watch this shite either though Mary. Jones looks completely lost out there. It’s like he can’t see the problems that are staring all of us in the face. We have a keeper and a right back who keep fucking up, a left back that is at best an average left midfielder, who keeps fucking up. A striker who has scored 1 in 16 and a bunch of very average players trying to play a system they don’t seem to understand. They are all problems of his making. He picks the team, he sets them up and he takes the plaudits when things go well. Unfortunately he gets the blame when things don’t work out and we can all see that it is not working out. I have yet to see any of this confident attacking football that he spouts on about. Just utter utter garbage game after game. I'm not disagreeing bill and I'm not saying we should stick with jones....far from it I can see hes not what's needed Im just saying that it's looking more like TP is probably the right man at this stage...sadly
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 11:43:56 GMT
The championship is a very different league to the one it was when Pulis was our manager. I don't think there's any guarantee he would do better than Jones and probably wouldn't play our two best players cos they move out of the cage too often.
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Post by dastokie on Sept 28, 2019 11:54:17 GMT
We are two fullbacks and a very large helping of confidence away from being a very good team. Oh and a new manager this one needs a holiday. Agree unfortunatley the full backs were terrible last night. How many goals have come from opposition crosses from the right. McClean did do better in a advanced role but his crossing is shocking. Edwards was not at the races against amebi. Remember Pulis using 4 centre halfs perhaps that needs to be the answer.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 28, 2019 11:57:54 GMT
I wouldn’t say any of the crosses for their goals could be described as ‘accurate’. The first was straight to the keeper and also offside, the second was just crossed into space and would have been dealt with by a competent defence and the third should have been cleared by Bruno. The difference was that we couldn’t clear their crosses and they had no problem clearing ours all night. You really think that? The reason Jack dropped the ball is that it was going straight onto Grabban's head without him having to move. In trying to catch the ball Butland had to jump into him. The second was right on Ameobi's head. Our defence could have done better but it was an excellent cross. Please tell me when we ever crossed the ball so that forward didn't have to move to get to it. And Forest's defence has not been good all season... they have probably conceded almost as many chances as we have but luck has been with them so to say they had no problems clearing our crosses says more about the quality of our crosses than the ability of their defenders. The ball went straight into Butland’s gloves and he dropped it, simple as that. He tried to make it look like he’d been fouled after to cover his blushes. The second was a good cross but Ameobi has had to run a long way to get onto the end of it. Not one Stoke player tried to either block his run or attack the ball. Forrest have only conceded 8 so far this season, luck has nothing to do with it. They’ve been well organised and have generally looked to play on the counter. They did the basics well last night, there was always someone defending the front post to cut out the low crosses and they had two big centre halves to deal with anything that went into the middle.
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 28, 2019 12:03:33 GMT
We have a handful of good players. The rest range from mediocre to poor. Same as most other teams in the championship No team has a better squad than Stoke Most have worse or much worse But do not have a clueless manager at the helm
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 12:11:42 GMT
You really think that? The reason Jack dropped the ball is that it was going straight onto Grabban's head without him having to move. In trying to catch the ball Butland had to jump into him. The second was right on Ameobi's head. Our defence could have done better but it was an excellent cross. Please tell me when we ever crossed the ball so that forward didn't have to move to get to it. And Forest's defence has not been good all season... they have probably conceded almost as many chances as we have but luck has been with them so to say they had no problems clearing our crosses says more about the quality of our crosses than the ability of their defenders. The ball went straight into Butland’s gloves and he dropped it, simple as that. He tried to make it look like he’d been fouled after to cover his blushes. The second was a good cross but Ameobi has had to run a long way to get onto the end of it. Not one Stoke player tried to either block his run or attack the ball. Forrest have only conceded 8 so far this season, luck has nothing to do with it. They’ve been well organised and have generally looked to play on the counter. They did the basics well last night, there was always someone defending the front post to cut out the low crosses and they had two big centre halves to deal with anything that went into the middle. Watch the replay. Grabban did not have to move. Butland came for the cross but Grabban stood his ground forcing them to collide. He did not foul. He had every right(apart from being offside) to do what he did. The quality of the cross made it difficult for Butland who should have punched. Ironically he got lucky with the next cross which he chose to punch instead of catch and punched straight to a Forest player on the edge of the box. Ameob's movement all night was excellent but the cross was right where he wanted it. Stop making it sound as if their crossing was as bad as ours. We were totally the best team apart from gkeeping and crossing.
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Post by Billybigbollox on Sept 28, 2019 12:13:32 GMT
No one wants to watch this shite either though Mary. Jones looks completely lost out there. It’s like he can’t see the problems that are staring all of us in the face. We have a keeper and a right back who keep fucking up, a left back that is at best an average left midfielder, who keeps fucking up. A striker who has scored 1 in 16 and a bunch of very average players trying to play a system they don’t seem to understand. They are all problems of his making. He picks the team, he sets them up and he takes the plaudits when things go well. Unfortunately he gets the blame when things don’t work out and we can all see that it is not working out. I have yet to see any of this confident attacking football that he spouts on about. Just utter utter garbage game after game. I'm not disagreeing bill and I'm not saying we should stick with jones....far from it I can see hes not what's needed Im just saying that it's looking more like TP is probably the right man at this stage...sadly I know mate. We are at a turning point. Do we stick and cross our fingers and toes that NJ can make things work, or do we twist and maybe jump from the frying pan into the fire, as we have done with the last 3 appointments. There is a danger that if we change managers now that we end up with a TP,or Big Sam type character. I think if that was the choice we might be better to gives Jones a little longer and hope for some divine intervention 🙏
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 28, 2019 12:14:14 GMT
Also look at the stats for the number of chances Forest have conceded. Not that much different from us in fact someone said the other day that they are in the relegation zone on that stat. We are unlucky in that every chance we concede ends up in the back of our net. Perhaps their goalkeeper is better.
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Post by Bagwash on Sept 28, 2019 12:21:27 GMT
I've said it before,Jones didn't need to make wholesale changes,all that was required was 3 or 4 good signings and a bit of 'tinkering'.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 28, 2019 12:22:18 GMT
The ball went straight into Butland’s gloves and he dropped it, simple as that. He tried to make it look like he’d been fouled after to cover his blushes. The second was a good cross but Ameobi has had to run a long way to get onto the end of it. Not one Stoke player tried to either block his run or attack the ball. Forrest have only conceded 8 so far this season, luck has nothing to do with it. They’ve been well organised and have generally looked to play on the counter. They did the basics well last night, there was always someone defending the front post to cut out the low crosses and they had two big centre halves to deal with anything that went into the middle. Watch the replay. Grabban did not have to move. Butland came for the cross but Grabban stood his ground forcing them to collide. He did not foul. He had every right(apart from being offside) to do what he did. The quality of the cross made it difficult for Butland who should have punched. Ironically he got lucky with the next cross which he chose to punch instead of catch and punched straight to a Forest player on the edge of the box. Ameob's movement all night was excellent but the cross was right where he wanted it. Stop making it sound as if their crossing was as bad as ours. We were totally the best team apart from gkeeping and crossing. I’ve seen the replay, numerous times. Butland gets both hands to the ball and just drops it, that had nothing to do with Grabban. I thought he should have punched it at the time but watching it back he was right to try and catch it. They put in one decent cross that lead to their second goal and we put in one decent cross that lead to our second goal. The difference between the sides was the defending, it’s as simple as that. We gifted them two goals and they didn’t gift us any.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 28, 2019 13:04:36 GMT
This is the myth that has been at the heart of our decline , too good to come down from the Prem , underachieved last season. Name the good players who actually want to be at the club and you will struggle to fill the fingers of one hand . I don't agree with you on that one. I actually think a lot of the other teams would love to have our squad of players. You can see in patches that there are a lot of good players there, but as a team we have struggled. Why? Well, first of all we lost Ryan at a crucial point, secondly we didn't get the needed results to build up our confidence, Butland in addition didn't get his wanted move, lost his place in the national squad and his confidence went out the window too after some unfocused games. Jones' attempt to play a formation he didn't have the players for, which led to all the changing of formation and personell didn't do any good either. I actually don't think he knows his best 11 yet, and he'll hopefully never find out either before he is shown the door. We need a change now to bring some optimism back, nobody really believes the tide will turn with Jones here now. He has been in charge of this team for around 35 games now and he still hasn't got a clue about what to do to turn it around. Action is neeeded NOW! Good enough who haven't wanted to leave Etebo Gregory Shawcross ( Injured) Good Enough who Have Ndaye Martin's Indi Butland ( currently not focused ) Allen. ( currently not focused) Average Championship players who try Baath McClean Possibly Smith Possibly Hogan Possibly Davis Possibly Duffy Clucas Flair but no character Ince Powell Campbell Good Prospects Collins Edwards ( currently not focused) That doesnt make a good team There is no pace , not enough goals and a poor defence hence we lose games
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