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Post by stokief on Sept 26, 2019 15:48:35 GMT
What I don't understand is that unless the Board plan to shock us tomorrow by saying Nathan has left by mutual consent or somesuch and then the new Manager is seen at the match on Friday (please to gawd not Pardew or some clueless young whippersnapper) they risk further humiliation being heaped on the Club on TV ,plus an atmosphere turning toxic, a mass walk-out and the distinct possibility that Nobody will want to take this job on plus the players becoming totally apathetic (not far to go now)It doesn't add up. I really cant see anything changing here if NJ is still in charge. Although what I've said above would be harsh on Nathan, business is after all business and I'm sure it wouldn't be a surprise to him. I actually hope that what I've said does happen. My fear is who the next 'victim' sorry, gaffer would be and I've already made my position (TP) known on this. He could handle it of that I'm sure but as I keep being told, unlikely as TS and Coates jnr would potentially be embarrassed by a return. Tough I say. They seem to have got us to where we are now allegedly so grow some and take another less risky risk than we've been lumbered with thus!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 16:07:53 GMT
I note your comments and, if it is as you say - we are indeed stuffed given, the pretty catastrophic track record of mis-management at board level, this last 2 1/2 - 3 years and, to write this all down would yield a damning enditement, rarely seen in footballs history.( 29th richest club on the planet to this ??) As I've said elsewhere, Stoke City is now just a toy train set being run as some kind of 'amateur hour hobby' and you can see this top to bottom and seemingly, they can do anything with it as they see fit - no matter how disasterous. And when it goes so spectacularly wrong - Someone, somewhere, must surely be culpable. And finally NO, I do not want the Coates family to sell up or leave, just be accountable, & take the necessary action as a result of this more recent unfortunate mess - And yet ........ how can we be "stuffed" when these are the same people who got us to the Premier League in the first place? Tony Pulis got us into the Prem. Without him we'd have still been fucking about in the Championship or lower. They got lucky.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 26, 2019 16:16:11 GMT
People won't be saying it in public but plenty are hoping for a loss on Friday. Why wouldn't they when it is seemingly the only way of forcing the issue with our owners? That is the bigger picture. No doubt there will be the usual "I never want us to lose, call yourself a supporter" if anyone dares say it but it's because I'm a supporter of this club that I hope we do, because if we don't and we keep him we are getting relegated. Because they're supporters? Anyone who wants the team to lose is not a supporter of the club, but rather a supporter of their own agenda. We'll be with you .....(as long as you do what I think you should do). The agenda to stay in the league.
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Post by philm87 on Sept 26, 2019 16:21:04 GMT
I remember having the same debate with someone early on in Hughes' final season.
They were quite candidly telling me how they wanted us to lose so that Hughes would get sacked because if he was to stay we were all fucked. I said that was a crazy mindset and we could not sack him after just one poor season. I am not sure now which of us was right. At the very least, what appeared to me at the time to be an insane perspective is now something I can acknowledge as a legitimate point of view.
I think on this occasion I would rather we win. Beat Forest and I think we beat Huddersfield too. That dramatically changes everything and if we then carried that momentum forward to get some sort of result against a high flying Swansea team we could completely change our season.
That said, I am expecting us to lose or draw tomorrow. The question is then will Coates wait for theHuddersfield game before wielding the axe?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 26, 2019 16:24:59 GMT
I remember having the same debate with someone early on in Hughes' final season. They were quite candidly telling me how they wanted us to lose so that Hughes would get sacked because if he was to stay we were all fucked. I said that was a crazy mindset and we could not sack him after just one poor season. I am not sure now which of us was right. At the very least, what appeared to me at the time to be an insane perspective is now something I can acknowledge as a legitimate point of view. I think on this occasion I would rather we win. Beat Forest and I think we beat Huddersfield too. That dramatically changes everything and if we then carried that momentum forward to get some sort of result against a high flying Swansea team we could completely change our season. That said, I am expecting us to lose or draw tomorrow. The question is then will Coates wait for theHuddersfield game before wielding the axe? Winning both would be great but it would change nothing for me. He has to be sacked come what may.
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Post by philm87 on Sept 26, 2019 16:48:29 GMT
I remember having the same debate with someone early on in Hughes' final season. They were quite candidly telling me how they wanted us to lose so that Hughes would get sacked because if he was to stay we were all fucked. I said that was a crazy mindset and we could not sack him after just one poor season. I am not sure now which of us was right. At the very least, what appeared to me at the time to be an insane perspective is now something I can acknowledge as a legitimate point of view. I think on this occasion I would rather we win. Beat Forest and I think we beat Huddersfield too. That dramatically changes everything and if we then carried that momentum forward to get some sort of result against a high flying Swansea team we could completely change our season. That said, I am expecting us to lose or draw tomorrow. The question is then will Coates wait for theHuddersfield game before wielding the axe? Winning both would be great but it would change nothing for me. He has to be sacked come what may. I think you have just said that for attention. It worked. Well done. If we were to win two games in the space of four days that would massively change everything - the mood in the team, the mood in the media, the mood among the fans, our league position and our points tally. Only an idiot would then react to that by sacking the manager. You would at the very least give him the Swansea game. If they won that - 9 points from 3 matches, including an away victory against the form team in the division, our season would take a radically different course.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 26, 2019 16:54:15 GMT
Winning both would be great but it would change nothing for me. He has to be sacked come what may. I think you have just said that for attention. It worked. Well done. If we were to win two games in the space of four days that would massively change everything - the mood in the team, the mood in the media, the mood among the fans, our league position and our points tally. Only an idiot would then react to that by sacking the manager. You would at the very least give him the Swansea game. If they won that - 9 points from 3 matches, including an away victory against the form team in the division, our season would take a radically different course. It should change nothing. The bloke is an absolute fraud. 2 wins wouldn’t change that.
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Post by thehoof on Sept 26, 2019 16:55:11 GMT
Wow 😮 So we should be top really Funny old game again.... read the first sentence. we deserve to be where we are but I aint going to say we are getting turned over every week to suit agendas ... sorry I aint conforming and I say it as I see it
I think that without your rose tinted glasses on you should realise we haven’t come close to turning over any side- that includes Charlton. The post and bar are shots OFF target, and very few Goalkeepers have had to make any worthwhile saves against us.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 16:58:10 GMT
Because they're supporters? Anyone who wants the team to lose is not a supporter of the club, but rather a supporter of their own agenda. We'll be with you .....(as long as you do what I think you should do). So if someone said to you if we lose tomorrow he is gone but if we win he gets until Christmas, you would hope for a win? When his record to date shows that would almost certainly lead to relegation to the 3rd division? You'd cut your nose off to spite your face just so you can fit your definition of a "true supporter"? I support Stoke City Fc not Nathan Jones and if a loss means that my club don't get relegated again then needs must. It's called the bigger picture. If the choice was lose tomorrow and survive, or win tomorrow and get relegated, no one in their right mind would wish for a win. Problem is, a loss tomorrow does NOT guarantee survival does it? It will not even guarantee your wished for objective of a managerial change (along with all the upheavel and starting all over and absolutely no guarantees). What will guarantee survival is picking up enough wins to ensure we have more points than the bottom 3. Therefore, seeing as I do not have a magic crystal ball, (can you let me have the lottery numbers by the way?), I'll go with the only logical approach and go for the 3 points which will hopefully be the first of many!
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:00:07 GMT
And yet ........ how can we be "stuffed" when these are the same people who got us to the Premier League in the first place? Tony Pulis got us into the Prem. Without him we'd have still been fucking about in the Championship or lower. They got lucky. How many Million Pounds "LUCKY" did we get?
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Post by thehoof on Sept 26, 2019 17:01:12 GMT
Winning both would be great but it would change nothing for me. He has to be sacked come what may. I think you have just said that for attention. It worked. Well done. If we were to win two games in the space of four days that would massively change everything - the mood in the team, the mood in the media, the mood among the fans, our league position and our points tally. Only an idiot would then react to that by sacking the manager. You would at the very least give him the Swansea game. If they won that - 9 points from 3 matches, including an away victory against the form team in the division, our season would take a radically different course. If we won 10 of the next 14 we’d have 32 points at the halfway stage of the season - well below the expectations that Jones himself was setting prior to the season starting. How anyone seriously thinks that Jones will put three wins together when the team is in the most disarray that it has been in the last 15 years, and Jones has managed 3 wins in 30 games quite frankly beggars belief.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:04:04 GMT
I remember having the same debate with someone early on in Hughes' final season. They were quite candidly telling me how they wanted us to lose so that Hughes would get sacked because if he was to stay we were all fucked. I said that was a crazy mindset and we could not sack him after just one poor season. I am not sure now which of us was right. At the very least, what appeared to me at the time to be an insane perspective is now something I can acknowledge as a legitimate point of view. I think on this occasion I would rather we win. Beat Forest and I think we beat Huddersfield too. That dramatically changes everything and if we then carried that momentum forward to get some sort of result against a high flying Swansea team we could completely change our season. That said, I am expecting us to lose or draw tomorrow. The question is then will Coates wait for theHuddersfield game before wielding the axe? Another wrinkle on that is: Would Hughes have found enough points to keep us up? I am firmly in the "Yes, he would have camp?" Changing when we did was madness, although the pressure on Stoke Owners was immense from the fans. Just shows, no one knows how things will play out.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:06:59 GMT
And yet ........ how can we be "stuffed" when these are the same people who got us to the Premier League in the first place? I happen to think a certain Peter Coates as chairman who, I understand has taken a back seat thesedays and, a certain Tony Pulls, were the architects of us getting in the premier league. I.e. their pretty unique chairman / football manager relationship - in spite of other 'bit part' players. I agree with you, and don't think PC is very happy with what's gone on. I think he still has a big influence on proceedings.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:11:44 GMT
I think you have just said that for attention. It worked. Well done. If we were to win two games in the space of four days that would massively change everything - the mood in the team, the mood in the media, the mood among the fans, our league position and our points tally. Only an idiot would then react to that by sacking the manager. You would at the very least give him the Swansea game. If they won that - 9 points from 3 matches, including an away victory against the form team in the division, our season would take a radically different course. If we won 10 of the next 14 we’d have 32 points at the halfway stage of the season - well below the expectations that Jones himself was setting prior to the season starting. How anyone seriously thinks that Jones will put three wins together when the team is in the most disarray that it has been in the last 15 years, and Jones has managed 3 wins in 30 games quite frankly beggars belief. The point PhilM was making was not "he will win the next 3", but rather " even if he wins the next 3, only an idiot would react to that by firing him".
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Post by hogansgoals on Sept 26, 2019 17:14:06 GMT
I think you have just said that for attention. It worked. Well done. If we were to win two games in the space of four days that would massively change everything - the mood in the team, the mood in the media, the mood among the fans, our league position and our points tally. Only an idiot would then react to that by sacking the manager. You would at the very least give him the Swansea game. If they won that - 9 points from 3 matches, including an away victory against the form team in the division, our season would take a radically different course. If we won 10 of the next 14 we’d have 32 points at the halfway stage of the season - well below the expectations that Jones himself was setting prior to the season starting. How anyone seriously thinks that Jones will put three wins together when the team is in the most disarray that it has been in the last 15 years, and Jones has managed 3 wins in 30 games quite frankly beggars belief. at the moment I'd take 32 points after 23 games
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 26, 2019 17:30:05 GMT
I remember having the same debate with someone early on in Hughes' final season. They were quite candidly telling me how they wanted us to lose so that Hughes would get sacked because if he was to stay we were all fucked. I said that was a crazy mindset and we could not sack him after just one poor season. I am not sure now which of us was right. At the very least, what appeared to me at the time to be an insane perspective is now something I can acknowledge as a legitimate point of view. I think on this occasion I would rather we win. Beat Forest and I think we beat Huddersfield too. That dramatically changes everything and if we then carried that momentum forward to get some sort of result against a high flying Swansea team we could completely change our season. That said, I am expecting us to lose or draw tomorrow. The question is then will Coates wait for theHuddersfield game before wielding the axe? Another wrinkle on that is: Would Hughes have found enough points to keep us up? I am firmly in the "Yes, he would have camp?" Changing when we did was madness, although the pressure on Stoke Owners was immense from the fans. Just shows, no one knows how things will play out. That was on the owners for dallying ffs 🤦♂️
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 26, 2019 17:37:13 GMT
I'll freely admit that if it means us getting rid and not getting relegated then fuck yes, bring on a dicking.
Hughes won a match (was it Watford? Or Newcastle?) that delayed his sacking by about six weeks, if we'd got cocked at that game he'd have been off and we might still be in the Premier League.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 26, 2019 17:44:48 GMT
Anyone wanting Stoke to lose on Friday is putting their opinion that a change of manager is more likely to get us out of trouble than 3 points on the board. Given that it's more or less the same bunch of goat slaughtering lunatics who got rid of Gary "Anyone But" Rowett and hailed Jones as our saviour I'll go for 3 points. Oh dear.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2019 17:44:58 GMT
Anyone wanting Stoke to lose on Friday is putting their opinion that a change of manager is more likely to get us out of trouble than 3 points on the board. Given that it's more or less the same bunch of goat slaughtering lunatics who got rid of Gary "Anyone But" Rowett and hailed Jones as our saviour I'll go for 3 points. He's clearly on the brink, much like Hughes was who picked up a fluky win and got more time at the helm to further cement our relegation. If we lose the next two, he is gone, I would put my house on it. You may be right. And sacking Hughes brought us Lambert and relegation. So what can possibly go wrong?
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:46:05 GMT
I'll freely admit that if it means us getting rid and not getting relegated then fuck yes, bring on a dicking. Hughes won a match (was it Watford? Or Newcastle?) that delayed his sacking by about six weeks, if we'd got cocked at that game he'd have been off and we might still be in the Premier League. But it doesn't guarantee either of your desired outcomes. Just as firing Hughes didn't guarantee survival either and keeping him till the end of the season may have ended with a better scenario.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2019 17:46:48 GMT
Anyone wanting Stoke to lose on Friday is putting their opinion that a change of manager is more likely to get us out of trouble than 3 points on the board. Given that it's more or less the same bunch of goat slaughtering lunatics who got rid of Gary "Anyone But" Rowett and hailed Jones as our saviour I'll go for 3 points. Oh dear. 3 points in our relegation season would have kept us up. Oh dear indeed.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 26, 2019 17:47:02 GMT
He's clearly on the brink, much like Hughes was who picked up a fluky win and got more time at the helm to further cement our relegation. If we lose the next two, he is gone, I would put my house on it. You may be right. And sacking Hughes brought us Lambert and relegation. So what can possibly go wrong? Stokie Humour at it's best!
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 26, 2019 17:49:49 GMT
3 points in our relegation season would have kept us up. Oh dear indeed. I'm referring to your nonsense on Rowett. I'm on record saying Hughes should not have been sacked when he was. Horrendous decision.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 26, 2019 17:54:15 GMT
I'll freely admit that if it means us getting rid and not getting relegated then fuck yes, bring on a dicking. Hughes won a match (was it Watford? Or Newcastle?) that delayed his sacking by about six weeks, if we'd got cocked at that game he'd have been off and we might still be in the Premier League. But it doesn't guarantee either of your desired outcomes. Just as firing Hughes didn't guarantee survival either and keeping him till the end of the season may have ended with a better scenario. When is anything ever guaranteed in football? Every man and his dog could see we were heading down under Hughes, same as everyone can see that NJ has not only shown no signs of improvement, but has actually made us worse. It's a bigger gamble for our safety and wellbeing to keep him than to axe at this moment in time (these stats about the likelihood of us staying up vs being relegated, compared to teams with our points at this moment in the season, historically) suggest this. We know our bigwigs are traditionally hesitant. If a win buys him another month I'd argue it will he more detrimental to us in the long term. Not guaranteed, no, as you say. But that's the point in football, if you knew what would happen there'd be no reason to follow it. We'll only know at the end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 18:06:40 GMT
we will beat Forest on Friday and Huddersfield on Tuesday setting us up for the Swansea game
It will go some way towards recovering the points we have ( in my opinion and with my Stoke tinted specs on ) thrown away putting us in the deserved but nevertheless false position of 2 points....
QPR --- WE SHOULD HAVE AND DID LOSE CHARLTON --- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS DERBY --- WE WERE UNLUCKY BUT STILL THREW AWAY 2 POINTS PRESTON --- WE THREW AWAY 1-3 POINTS LEEDS --- WE DESERVED NOWT OUT OF THE GAME BIRMINGHAM --- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS BRISTOL CITY -- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS BRENTFORD --- WE THEW AWAY 2 POINTS
BY MY CALCS THROWN AWAY 14-16 points already and are rightly sitting at the bottom.
We are in a false position and hardly getting turned over by anything other than our attitude/confidence on the pitch. It of course has to change but fans surely have to be objective and concentrate on doing what they can be good at ... Home support has been by and large poor whereas Away support has been as good as it gets
Fuck a duck
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Post by heworksardtho on Sept 26, 2019 18:09:58 GMT
we will beat Forest on Friday and Huddersfield on Tuesday setting us up for the Swansea game
It will go some way towards recovering the points we have ( in my opinion and with my Stoke tinted specs on ) thrown away putting us in the deserved but nevertheless false position of 2 points....
QPR --- WE SHOULD HAVE AND DID LOSE CHARLTON --- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS DERBY --- WE WERE UNLUCKY BUT STILL THREW AWAY 2 POINTS PRESTON --- WE THREW AWAY 1-3 POINTS LEEDS --- WE DESERVED NOWT OUT OF THE GAME BIRMINGHAM --- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS BRISTOL CITY -- WE THREW AWAY 3 POINTS BRENTFORD --- WE THEW AWAY 2 POINTS
BY MY CALCS THROWN AWAY 14-16 points already and are rightly sitting at the bottom.
We are in a false position and hardly getting turned over by anything other than our attitude/confidence on the pitch. It of course has to change but fans surely have to be objective and concentrate on doing what they can be good at ... Home support has been by and large poor whereas Away support has been as good as it gets
Fuck a duck Done a chicken 🐔 and a sheep 🐑 😎
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Post by thevoid on Sept 26, 2019 18:10:03 GMT
I was hoping this thread was going to involve Kelly Cates and a rather large cucumber.
Perhaps it's just me.
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Post by loosestools on Sept 26, 2019 18:10:03 GMT
Personally I’d never want us to lose. I’ll be going down there to be entertained (yes I know) and will want us to win, but I see where people hope a defeat will finally put an end to this shambolic start to the season. All I’d say is if we do lose then he does deserve to go. In my eyes if we don’t pick up at least 4 points from the next 2 games then he’s a gonner. Thank the Lord you have spelt 'gonner' correctly. You are in a minority.
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Post by Scrotnig on Sept 26, 2019 18:12:10 GMT
I want us to win. And I want Jones out.
If winning ONE game means they stick with him, we're in worse trouble than I thought.
Tone Please!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 18:22:47 GMT
Personally I’d never want us to lose. I’ll be going down there to be entertained (yes I know) and will want us to win, but I see where people hope a defeat will finally put an end to this shambolic start to the season. All I’d say is if we do lose then he does deserve to go. In my eyes if we don’t pick up at least 4 points from the next 2 games then he’s a gonner. Just suppose he did go - I'm sort of against, but let's just say we lose 6-0 to Forest and he resigns. What good will that actually do? Until the next transfer window it's still the same insipid players that he signed plus leftovers on the scale of Allen that a new manager will have to work with . Even in the next window we can't expect to sign more than 2, maybe 3 new players. That won't be enough to turn the ship around. It's better that we let Jones get some tune out of the players he signed, because only He can see some good in them.
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