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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 27, 2019 7:31:39 GMT
So the definition of coward is not playing young players? Jones may well favour experience over youth. That is a professional judgement and he isn't the only manager with that view. You may disagree with his professional judgement - that's fine but just because someone holds a different opinion it doesn't make them a coward. That's just childish name calling. It’s not just that. His whole air is one of cowardice. Talks about attacking exciting football then plays five at the back away at Crawley. He played 3 strikers in the game against Crawley - you could equally say he went gung ho. The formation against Crawley was bizarre - it looked like we were trying to suck them in and hit the front three with long balls bypassing the non-existent midfield. You could argue it was a weird decision made by someone struggling with the pressure but it makes no sense to call it cowardly. By the way - I take it by deflecting you argument on to the Crawley formation you are tacitly admitting that your original point about Jones being a coward for not playing young players was wrong. I'll take that as a first - and await the inevitable logic/gravity defying response.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 27, 2019 7:51:02 GMT
It’s not just that. His whole air is one of cowardice. Talks about attacking exciting football then plays five at the back away at Crawley. He played 3 strikers in the game against Crawley - you could equally say he went gung ho. The formation against Crawley was bizarre - it looked like we were trying to suck them in and hit the front three with long balls bypassing the non-existent midfield. You could argue it was a weird decision made by someone struggling with the pressure but it makes no sense to call it cowardly. By the way - I take it by deflecting you argument on to the Crawley formation you are tacitly admitting that your original point about Jones being a coward for not playing young players was wrong. I'll take that as a first - and await the inevitable logic/gravity defying response. I wouldn't call it gung ho though. It was stupid. It was one of the most daftly inbalanced teams ever. Going with 5 at the back at Crawley is cowardly. No, I was adding to the points on to why he's a coward. His use/non-use of the young players is another reason. You asked what the definition was, I was just adding more evidence to that.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 27, 2019 8:01:24 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong
If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here.
Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'.
If he's going diamond, I'd go:
Butland
Edwards Batth BMI Clucas
Woods
Ndiaye Etebo
Powell
Gregory Hogan
But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 27, 2019 8:07:06 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here. Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'. If he's going diamond, I'd go: Butland Edwards Batth BMI Clucas Woods Ndiaye Etebo Powell Gregory Hogan But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo. That would be my team apart from I'd have Duffy starting instead of Powell. Duffy is the only player we have that knows what it feels like to win football matches
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 27, 2019 8:14:23 GMT
Is it conceivable that he has been told either win or lose he's going and he might pick a team he wouldn't normally and just have a 'free hit'?
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Post by serpico on Sept 27, 2019 8:16:47 GMT
He’s definitely in the “got nothing left to lose” zone right now so maybe he’ll try something entirely different but I expect he’ll go with the side that played on Saturday.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 27, 2019 8:18:24 GMT
I’d go with
........................Butland...................... Smith........Batth.........Indi....Edwards ..........................Badou...................... .............Etebo..................Duffy.......... ...........................Powell..................... .................Gregory........Hogan..........
He’ll probably go paper, scissors, stones or heads and tails.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 8:37:00 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here. Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'. If he's going diamond, I'd go: Butland Edwards Batth BMI Clucas Woods Ndiaye Etebo Powell Gregory Hogan But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo. It really makes no sense what you claim. He isn't here, because of the diamond. He was brought in to better oversee the overhaul and because of the way that he is (appeared to be) young, dynamic and innovative, so at the time it made perfect sense and probably still does, apart from results obviously. The board don't interfere in or hire because tactical considerations. Jones has made it very clear he's going to stay with the allegedly excellent Brentford formation, and that the Crawley selection are personae non gratae, so no Hogan and Woods. Of course what he said on tuesday could be very different to what he decides on a friday afternoon after a few beers with the gang. At least we know that much. So the for the time being it's the Brentford 11 with Powell coming on straight after the break when we are 0-2 down. He instantly gets himself sent off after 45 seconds and we lose 0-5. Unusually, a Coates go in the press straight after the game and makes clear that none of this is Jones' fault.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 27, 2019 8:53:33 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here. Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'. If he's going diamond, I'd go: Butland Edwards Batth BMI Clucas Woods Ndiaye Etebo Powell Gregory Hogan But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo. It really makes no sense what you claim. He isn't here, because of the diamond. He was brought in to better oversee the overhaul and because of the way that he is (appeared to be) young, dynamic and innovative, so at the time it made perfect sense and probably still does, apart from results obviously. The board don't interfere in or hire because tactical considerations. Jones has made it very clear he's going to stay with the allegedly excellent Brentford formation, and that the Crawley selection are personae non gratae, so no Hogan and Woods. Of course what he said on tuesday could be very different to what he decides on a friday afternoon after a few beers with the gang. At least we know that much. So the for the time being it's the Brentford 11 with Powell coming on straight after the break when we are 0-2 down. He instantly gets himself sent off after 45 seconds and we lose 0-5. Unusually, a Coates go in the press straight after the game and makes clear that none of this is Jones' fault. He is the diamond. The diamond is him. It defines him completely. It is exactly why he was brought in. There's zero proof he can get any other formation functioning at any level. Everything he did over the summer was with the aim of getting this formation right for August. If he's got no faith in it for a game at the end of September, he may as well hold his hands up and walk away. All his Plan Bs aren't working any better The only small signs of progress we've seen this season have been in the Derby and Charlton games with the diamond, as flawed as it was. Since he bottled it at half-time in the Preston game (understandably to some degree, his head must have been frazzled), we've gone backwards. If we lose tonight, he won't be manager by Monday. If I was him, I'd want to get back to the formation that I know best.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 27, 2019 8:54:48 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here. Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'. If he's going diamond, I'd go: Butland Edwards Batth BMI Clucas Woods Ndiaye Etebo Powell Gregory Hogan But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo. I would be happy with either of those two sides. He has to go back to his principles and have a real go. If Powell isn't fit, it will have to be Ince I think. Come on Nathan! It's been so tough but keep the faith. There are a couple of precedents here. Two of the most successful managers of the last 35 years faced similar crisis points. www.theguardian.com/football/that-1980s-sports-blog/2015/oct/20/howard-kendall-everton-fa-cup-1984Many Evertonians would say it was the Milk Cup game at Oxford that saved Howard Kendall. The rest is history: league Champions, FA Cup winners and European Cup Winners Cup (?) winners. The best team of the mid eighties. The irony is, their winning streak started at Stoke in the FA Cup the week before. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/30709994That Mark Robins goal. Often credited for saving Fergie from the bullet. Manchester United supporters wanted him gone. And the irony there is that of course, the fixture that saved Sir Alex Ferguson was against... Nottingham Forest. Come on Stoke! Have a real go tonight lads. Shit or bust, Nathan. If you're going to go, please don't go out with a whimper. Go out believing in what worked before, all guns blazing and attack, attack - attack, attack, attack!
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 27, 2019 8:58:06 GMT
He may as well full-diamond it in what could well be his last match if it goes wrong If he isn't prepared to diamond it, there's no point him being here. Interesting to see if he throws Powell in from the start and thinks 'oh, fuck it'. If he's going diamond, I'd go: Butland Edwards Batth BMI Clucas Woods Ndiaye Etebo Powell Gregory Hogan But presumably it'll be McClean at full-back and Ndiaye at the base, and Clucas alongside Etebo. I would be happy with either of those two sides. He has to go back to his principles and have a real go. If Powell isn't fit, it will have to be Ince I think. Come on Nathan! It's been so tough but keep the faith. There are a couple of precedents here. Two of the most successful managers of the last 35 years faced similar crisis points. www.theguardian.com/football/that-1980s-sports-blog/2015/oct/20/howard-kendall-everton-fa-cup-1984Many Evertonians would say it was the Milk Cup game at Oxford that saved Howard Kendall. The rest is history: league Champions, FA Cup winners and European Cup Winners Cup (?) winners. The best team of the mid eighties. The irony is, their winning streak started at Stoke in the FA Cup the week before. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/30709994That Mark Robins goal. Often credited for saving Fergie from the bullet. Manchester United supporters wanted him gone. And the irony there is that of course, the fixture that saved Sir Alex Ferguson was against... Nottingham Forest. Come on Stoke! Have a real go tonight lads. Shit or bust, Nathan. If you're going to go, please don't go out with a whimper. Go out believing in what worked before, all guns blazing and attack, attack - attack, attack, attack! Compeltely agree, Okey. It's got to be diamond or bust tonight. At least if he fails, he won't be kicking himself about what would have happened if he'd have gone for it
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 27, 2019 9:01:33 GMT
On form Forest should win tonight,to get the 3 points,we have to fluke a win,an OG,a deflection, anything will do,I haven't said a Penalty,you all know why.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 27, 2019 9:02:27 GMT
I simply cannot believe the owners have given him another roll of the dice. It defies all logic and is just delaying the inevitable and begs the question, have they got a the faintest fucking clue what they're doing?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 27, 2019 9:13:34 GMT
I simply cannot believe the owners have given him another roll of the dice. It defies all logic and is just delaying the inevitable and begs the question, have they got a the faintest fucking clue what they're doing? If they want the club in Div 1,they are doing a fantastic job.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 27, 2019 10:30:28 GMT
I would be happy with either of those two sides. He has to go back to his principles and have a real go. If Powell isn't fit, it will have to be Ince I think. Come on Nathan! It's been so tough but keep the faith. There are a couple of precedents here. Two of the most successful managers of the last 35 years faced similar crisis points. www.theguardian.com/football/that-1980s-sports-blog/2015/oct/20/howard-kendall-everton-fa-cup-1984Many Evertonians would say it was the Milk Cup game at Oxford that saved Howard Kendall. The rest is history: league Champions, FA Cup winners and European Cup Winners Cup (?) winners. The best team of the mid eighties. The irony is, their winning streak started at Stoke in the FA Cup the week before. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/30709994That Mark Robins goal. Often credited for saving Fergie from the bullet. Manchester United supporters wanted him gone. And the irony there is that of course, the fixture that saved Sir Alex Ferguson was against... Nottingham Forest. Come on Stoke! Have a real go tonight lads. Shit or bust, Nathan. If you're going to go, please don't go out with a whimper. Go out believing in what worked before, all guns blazing and attack, attack - attack, attack, attack! Compeltely agree, Okey. It's got to be diamond or bust tonight. At least if he fails, he won't be kicking himself about what would have happened if he'd have gone for it Could he conceivably play Powell alongside Gregory and Ince behind, or is Duffy an option? I'm going to have a look at Forest's likely team and ponder anew.
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Post by stokief on Sept 27, 2019 10:31:54 GMT
Funny, no word from nath at all ahead of the game? I see that Sky snippet on the Sentinal about pressure but no words of wisdom yet on the Official site just a re-hash of 'no new injury news' from Mr inspirational Hart? Mmmmm.. oh well, probably best to say nowt as it's often just babble these days but I wonder if anyone has seen him around the place today?
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Post by djralphy1984 on Sept 27, 2019 10:32:33 GMT
Butland
Edwards Batth CCV BMI
Etebo Badou Clucas
Ince
Gregory Campbell
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Post by cransonshead on Sept 27, 2019 10:52:45 GMT
Butland Edward's Vickers lindsay Indi Ince badou etebo McClean Gregory Hogan
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Post by nott1 on Sept 27, 2019 11:39:39 GMT
Does anybody really care now....just waiting on a new manager now?
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Post by nott1 on Sept 27, 2019 11:40:59 GMT
Funny, no word from nath at all ahead of the game? I see that Sky snippet on the Sentinal about pressure but no words of wisdom yet on the Official site just a re-hash of 'no new injury news' from Mr inspirational Hart? Mmmmm.. oh well, probably best to say nowt as it's often just babble these days but I wonder if anyone has seen him around the place today? Clearing his office hopefully.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 11:43:48 GMT
It really makes no sense what you claim. He isn't here, because of the diamond. He was brought in to better oversee the overhaul and because of the way that he is (appeared to be) young, dynamic and innovative, so at the time it made perfect sense and probably still does, apart from results obviously. The board don't interfere in or hire because tactical considerations. Jones has made it very clear he's going to stay with the allegedly excellent Brentford formation, and that the Crawley selection are personae non gratae, so no Hogan and Woods. Of course what he said on tuesday could be very different to what he decides on a friday afternoon after a few beers with the gang. At least we know that much. So the for the time being it's the Brentford 11 with Powell coming on straight after the break when we are 0-2 down. He instantly gets himself sent off after 45 seconds and we lose 0-5. Unusually, a Coates go in the press straight after the game and makes clear that none of this is Jones' fault. He is the diamond. The diamond is him. It defines him completely. It is exactly why he was brought in. There's zero proof he can get any other formation functioning at any level. Everything he did over the summer was with the aim of getting this formation right for August. If he's got no faith in it for a game at the end of September, he may as well hold his hands up and walk away. All his Plan Bs aren't working any better The only small signs of progress we've seen this season have been in the Derby and Charlton games with the diamond, as flawed as it was. Since he bottled it at half-time in the Preston game (understandably to some degree, his head must have been frazzled), we've gone backwards. If we lose tonight, he won't be manager by Monday. If I was him, I'd want to get back to the formation that I know best. Well I agree to a large part in what you say, except the part where you repeat that thae diamond is the reason he was brought in. I seriously doubt that the board members are well versed in tactical measures; they're just Stoke fans, they're not actually football experts. It's true that when he came the diamond was all the rage and he tried and failed to implement it into an old fashioned squad. His best results last season (the few that there were) was when he veered off from the diamond. It's the same story this season, only worse, because of everything that's going on to this day. If our tiny successes are measured by points his most recent "success" was the point we gained in the dreary forgettable Brentford game last week. Ignoring the midweek debacle and the now outcast players, he will be hoping to be building on the "success" (which means the viewers can go to bed early, as there will be nothing doing). Jones will concentrate on killing the Forest game (whatever it is, I haven't watched them at all this season), so his optical 3-5-2 will probably be more like 5-5-0. If that means a no score draw that will be a price worth paying for Jones (not for any others); if the measure of success is your definition then he will have succeeded by not losing. You're very cocksure he could be gone, but it does require that someone will want to take his place. No sane manager will.
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Post by hanibal7 on Sept 27, 2019 11:46:38 GMT
A draw is the most we can hope for.Nath has been a curse on this club.
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Post by Los Alfareros on Sept 27, 2019 12:13:39 GMT
Preparing myself for more humiliation.... live on SKY none the less!!! I am expecting spectacular mistakes from our "professional footballers", a sound thrashing, piss taking songs from opposition fans and painful truths from some fucking no mark pundit who I will want to batter to death with a blunt instrument come 10 o'clock.
And to top it off, my weekend gets thoroughly fucked over 18 hours earlier. We don't even get to enjoy a Friday night before the usual onset of despair and misery.
Fuck off football.
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Post by thestatusquo on Sept 27, 2019 12:18:35 GMT
I could pick 10 different teams and still won’t come up with the one Jones sends out
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 27, 2019 12:26:44 GMT
I forgot we were even playing today, I’ve just been reminded we have and it’s fucking ruined my day, completely.
I just don’t care anymore.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 27, 2019 12:59:19 GMT
Spot on Fuller, he will have sold his diamond to the board as the blueprint to fast, flowing attacking football. He has recruited specifically for it and he has had to dump it. He clearly is stumbling around in the dark hoping to find a miracle solution. His time is up and I think he knows it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 12:59:28 GMT
Butland Edwards CCV Indi McClean Badou Clucas Etebo Ince Gregory Hogan
Ideally we would have a left back and another winger so we could at least play 4-4-2, but this is probably as good as it gets for me
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Post by Sfance on Sept 27, 2019 13:40:51 GMT
It’s of no consequence who he plays and what formation he lines them up in. They’re done, the fans are done and even Coates is done. The only problem is he doesn’t know who to replace him with since his top candidates have told him - get rid of Scholes or I’m not coming. And Peter may finally realize that that’s what he has to do if he wants to stave off relegation.
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Post by Veritas on Sept 27, 2019 13:47:00 GMT
It’s of no consequence who he plays and what formation he lines them up in. They’re done, the fans are done and even Coates is done. The only problem is he doesn’t know who to replace him with since his top candidates have told him - get rid of Scholes or I’m not coming. And Peter may finally realize that that’s what he has to do if he wants to stave off relegation. And you know this how?
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Post by Sfance on Sept 27, 2019 13:49:48 GMT
2+2
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