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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 20, 2019 14:14:44 GMT
Maybe the owners should just do everything themselves by that logic Geoff, then they have no problems. Pick the team, choose the tactics, do the lot. Cut out the danger of appointing the wrong manager? There is a suggestion on this thread that the SD could become more important than the manager, don't see that at all. The manager for me is the most important person at the club and therefore should be accountable to the owners. I also don't buy this idea that you can appoint a SD who then will ensure each manager appointed will be in line with the clubs beliefs etc. Great managers tend to be strong individuals, I don't see them easily accepting that another person at the club has the ability to enforce decisions on them, Klopp and Pep strike me as in charge and the only people who could overrule them would be the owners, and even they might find it difficult.
Klopp operated with Dortmund's long term Sporting Director Michael Zorc for his entire tenure. Zorc has kept Dortumund near the top for 20 years or so now despite their net spend being dwarfed by Bayern Munich. Indeed Klopp has worked with a sporting director his entire career, he was picked by Christian Heidel at Mainz and worked wonders with him before moving onto Zorc and Dortmund. It's how modern managers want to and are used to operating.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 20, 2019 14:33:23 GMT
There is a suggestion on this thread that the SD could become more important than the manager, don't see that at all. The manager for me is the most important person at the club and therefore should be accountable to the owners. I also don't buy this idea that you can appoint a SD who then will ensure each manager appointed will be in line with the clubs beliefs etc. Great managers tend to be strong individuals, I don't see them easily accepting that another person at the club has the ability to enforce decisions on them, Klopp and Pep strike me as in charge and the only people who could overrule them would be the owners, and even they might find it difficult.
Klopp operated with Dortmund's long term Sporting Director Michael Zorc for his entire tenure. Zorc has kept Dortumund near the top for 20 years or so now despite their net spend being dwarfed by Bayern Munich. Indeed Klopp has worked with a sporting director his entire career, he was picked by Christian Heidel at Mainz and worked wonders with him before moving onto Zorc and Dortmund. It's how modern managers want to and are used to operating. Just three questions:
Do the Sporting Directors at these clubs choose the manager?
It's a real possibility that a club like Norwich could lose their PL place after 1/2/3 years, compared to our 1O years. As we were operating without a SD for the whole of that period that would suggest our system was fairly robust?
I don't think the owners at Stoke pay their manager a huge salary, would the recruitement of a SD hinder Stoke from going out and paying a top salary for a team manager?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 20, 2019 15:10:58 GMT
Klopp operated with Dortmund's long term Sporting Director Michael Zorc for his entire tenure. Zorc has kept Dortumund near the top for 20 years or so now despite their net spend being dwarfed by Bayern Munich. Indeed Klopp has worked with a sporting director his entire career, he was picked by Christian Heidel at Mainz and worked wonders with him before moving onto Zorc and Dortmund. It's how modern managers want to and are used to operating. Just three questions: Do the Sporting Directors at these clubs choose the manager? It's a real possibility that a club like Norwich could lose their PL place after 1/2/3 years, compared to our 1O years. As we were operating without a SD for the whole of that period that would suggest our system was fairly robust? I don't think the owners at Stoke pay their manager a huge salary, would the recruitement of a SD hinder Stoke from going out and paying a top salary for a team manager?
1. Yes, and when to sack them too. The owners place their trust in the Sporting Director. Much like the general manager system used in North American Sports, the general manager hires the coach and fires him accordingly. I have no doubt the Director explains his decisions to ownership though. 2. It would, but the Premier League is a very different place to when we first arrived in it. The gaps between the two leagues are only getting larger and with an inflated money market, intelligent recruitment and directed ways of playing are one of the few ways smaller clubs can extract extra from the transfer market. Our final years in the Premier League smack of a complete lack of this, we spent big and high risk and it blew up in our faces. We lacked direction on the pitch and off it. People always go on about us losing our "identity", identity is exactly what a Sporting Director aims to implement. There's also an understanding at smaller clubs that relegation is a fact of life, having a long term philosophy in place makes it more to rebound as quick as possible. 3. All depends on wage structure and finance I would guess. What I would say is that Sporting Director models allow you to nurture and develop younger managerial talent because it's a collaborative environment. So much so that they can develop into top managers rather than requiring an all out spend to get one. Klopp, Nagelsmann, Farke, Wagner, Tuchel and many more were all relative managerial nobodies when they were chosen to manage their respective clubs. What the sporting director provided them was an environment to be experimental without the trappings of having to "impose" themselves all over the club. It's different to what we in England have, but I'd much rather a lot of investment in a cohesive club structure with a sporting director than a "lone wolf" manager as it were.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 20, 2019 15:31:34 GMT
Just three questions: Do the Sporting Directors at these clubs choose the manager? It's a real possibility that a club like Norwich could lose their PL place after 1/2/3 years, compared to our 1O years. As we were operating without a SD for the whole of that period that would suggest our system was fairly robust? I don't think the owners at Stoke pay their manager a huge salary, would the recruitement of a SD hinder Stoke from going out and paying a top salary for a team manager?
1. Yes, and when to sack them too. The owners place their trust in the Sporting Director. Much like the general manager system used in North American Sports, the general manager hires the coach and fires him accordingly. I have no doubt the Director explains his decisions to ownership though. 2. It would, but the Premier League is a very different place to when we first arrived in it. The gaps between the two leagues are only getting larger and with an inflated money market, intelligent recruitment and directed ways of playing are one of the few ways smaller clubs can extract extra from the transfer market. Our final years in the Premier League smack of a complete lack of this, we spent big and high risk and it blew up in our faces. We lacked direction on the pitch and off it. People always go on about us losing our "identity", identity is exactly what a Sporting Director aims to implement. There's also an understanding at smaller clubs that relegation is a fact of life, having a long term philosophy in place makes it more to rebound as quick as possible. 3. All depends on wage structure and finance I would guess. What I would say is that Sporting Director models allow you to nurture and develop younger managerial talent because it's a collaborative environment. So much so that they can develop into top managers rather than requiring an all out spend to get one. Klopp, Nagelsmann, Farke, Wagner, Tuchel and many more were all relative managerial nobodies when they were chosen to manage their respective clubs. What the sporting director provided them was an environment to be experimental without the trappings of having to "impose" themselves all over the club. It's different to what we in England have, but I'd much rather a lot of investment in a cohesive club structure with a sporting director than a "lone wolf" manager as it were. Fair enough, thanks for that.
How do you find the up and coming Sporting Directors though, please feel free to treat this question as rhetorical.
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