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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Sept 1, 2019 19:31:37 GMT
ffs a record determines continuity ..lol … should we re employ all the failed managers on the say so of 1 opinion ..no. .get rid
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 1, 2019 19:55:32 GMT
Do all Luton fans like kicking a man when he's down?
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 1, 2019 22:31:48 GMT
Watching Luton since 50s, was at 59 Cup Final so seen it all at our club! Jones joined when we were mid table L2, but under achieving with a squad largely put together by Mick Hartford and John Still, and a fantastic group of youngsters including Justin, who reached I think, last 16 of youth cup with all the big boys. Jones was with us 3 yrs. We gave him his first opportunity- he had played for us for us for a short time in the mid 90s. During his first 18 mths he made a number of errors - poor selections, substituting etc. He had a great team of backroom staff, and we fans loved (were conned) by his consistent badge thumping, and he wouldn’t ever choose to leave except for Barcelona. Yes, he said that, god willing. With a number of good signings (Mick Hartford finding what he wanted) we were promoted from L2. With promotion, after about 8 games and a very average start in L1 there was a key change. Paul Hart, his assistant, left to become director of football at Notts County (and what happened to them?). Jones always claims Hart is his mentor - most at Luton thought good riddance. Steve Rutter was appointed instead. Immediately we became unstoppable for the rest of last season, club record 28 unbeaten etc. Rutter v highly respected FA coach now working abroad from end of last season, with our new managerial appointment. Our fans now refer to Jones very unkindly for dropping us in it at such a crucial stage in January. But with hindsight probably the best thing that has happened. He (allegedly) was less than up front to players, and the Board about your approach. New manager is a class above - in character, Rutteresque coaching ability (grounded with Martinez, Everton, Belgium World Cup etc). He is self effacing just the opposite to Jones, who tries to take all the credit for Luton - that is just not right! He would not EVER even start James Justin until when there was a serious injury to Dan Potts midway through last season, even though the fans were so much wanting that Graeme Jones leaves Nathan Jones standing tactically. He has already tweaked the diamond, and played other systems, depending upon the opposition this season. We all know the diamond is vulnerable to opposition attacking width, and it needs a little more above L1. As he is known Judas Jones is seen at Luton as a bullsxxxxer who is probably too inexperienced to cope with Championship level tactics, abilities, and players’ personalities. Had we kept him, we would probably be where you are but, with less resources, nowhere to go but to relegation. Instead with our management team, board, and fans we have a fighting chance of safe mid table even with the smallest budget in the Championship. And a new ground to look forward to, right in the Town centre. I suspect you have enough good players, fans support, and resources such that you will not do a Sunderland, even if you keep Jones. But promotion or playoffs with him, no way. If Stoke were my club, and with such wealthy owners who can afford to sack and pay off - I would certainly get rid. A replacement - can only think of Lee Bowyer, and his assistant at Charlton Jackson, or Ryan Lowe at Plymouth- they were the ones in our frame if we failed with the very much first choice. Graeme Jones. just cannot blame your board for being taken in by NJ and his fast talking - just the same happened to all of us at Luton. Thanks for that. It resonates completely and profoundly. Jones seems completely and utterly clueless in pretty much every scenario he's faced. Best of luck for the season. I feared for you lot when you sold your fullbacks, but seems you're in good, safe hands.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 6:26:33 GMT
Watching Luton since 50s, was at 59 Cup Final so seen it all at our club! Jones joined when we were mid table L2, but under achieving with a squad largely put together by Mick Hartford and John Still, and a fantastic group of youngsters including Justin, who reached I think, last 16 of youth cup with all the big boys. Jones was with us 3 yrs. We gave him his first opportunity- he had played for us for us for a short time in the mid 90s. During his first 18 mths he made a number of errors - poor selections, substituting etc. He had a great team of backroom staff, and we fans loved (were conned) by his consistent badge thumping, and he wouldn’t ever choose to leave except for Barcelona. Yes, he said that, god willing. With a number of good signings (Mick Hartford finding what he wanted) we were promoted from L2. With promotion, after about 8 games and a very average start in L1 there was a key change. Paul Hart, his assistant, left to become director of football at Notts County (and what happened to them?). Jones always claims Hart is his mentor - most at Luton thought good riddance. Steve Rutter was appointed instead. Immediately we became unstoppable for the rest of last season, club record 28 unbeaten etc. Rutter v highly respected FA coach now working abroad from end of last season, with our new managerial appointment. Our fans now refer to Jones very unkindly for dropping us in it at such a crucial stage in January. But with hindsight probably the best thing that has happened. He (allegedly) was less than up front to players, and the Board about your approach. New manager is a class above - in character, Rutteresque coaching ability (grounded with Martinez, Everton, Belgium World Cup etc). He is self effacing just the opposite to Jones, who tries to take all the credit for Luton - that is just not right! He would not EVER even start James Justin until when there was a serious injury to Dan Potts midway through last season, even though the fans were so much wanting that Graeme Jones leaves Nathan Jones standing tactically. He has already tweaked the diamond, and played other systems, depending upon the opposition this season. We all know the diamond is vulnerable to opposition attacking width, and it needs a little more above L1. As he is known Judas Jones is seen at Luton as a bullsxxxxer who is probably too inexperienced to cope with Championship level tactics, abilities, and players’ personalities. Had we kept him, we would probably be where you are but, with less resources, nowhere to go but to relegation. Instead with our management team, board, and fans we have a fighting chance of safe mid table even with the smallest budget in the Championship. And a new ground to look forward to, right in the Town centre. I suspect you have enough good players, fans support, and resources such that you will not do a Sunderland, even if you keep Jones. But promotion or playoffs with him, no way. If Stoke were my club, and with such wealthy owners who can afford to sack and pay off - I would certainly get rid. A replacement - can only think of Lee Bowyer, and his assistant at Charlton Jackson, or Ryan Lowe at Plymouth- they were the ones in our frame if we failed with the very much first choice. Graeme Jones. just cannot blame your board for being taken in by NJ and his fast talking - just the same happened to all of us at Luton. Did you ever remember an episode of Space 1999 called ‘The rules of Luton’? That episode was on free view recently Good memories GD
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Sept 2, 2019 8:10:18 GMT
First I'd heard of the man was 2 days before he was annouced as Stoke manager.
We took a gamble and it didn't pay off.
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 2, 2019 10:44:50 GMT
Final post as not right to use your Board but passions still run high so far as Jones is concerned amongst Luton fans. We do give him credit for promotion from L2 - tho he had a great backroom staff, and full support from Board and fans. I did think he would do well with you. But what no-one knew then were his tactical limitations in the Championship, and without the tactical nouse of Rutter, or the scouting of Hartford. Also didn’t recognise his character- he badly let us down, he misled players, board and fans inJan as he moved to you. Detail well known in Luton but I am not posting on here to get sued . And then, when he has left - tries to take all the credit, but never the blame in his early days with us. Old John Still did far more for us to get us out of the Conference when the FA had turned us over with -30 pts. And then a true legend Mick Hartford, with Rutter got us into the Championship. They both have done far more for our club that Jones - and with real self effacing character. Anyway good luck with him - until it all ends in tears, sooner or later, as it inevitably will do - then it will be everyone else’s fault no doubt. A final - what would I do as Coates - seek to attract Rutter back from Greece or Turkey, and lose Hart, if he is still with you. And in response to question above - no, youth did certainly not get a chance. He only played Justin when injuries forced his hand, and used none at all, of the young crop of talent - until 3 or 4 al left because of a lack of opportunity. Now, he discovered Justin who had been at Luton since aged 7! Thanks for the insight senior. Really useful actually. I think it's a lesson that success is never just down to a manager, and that it's a mistake to recruit a manager based on results alone. It should never be underestimated what a robust scouting network or the groundwork from an Assistant Manager contributes to results. At Luton, Mick Harford basically identified the players for NJ's system, and Steve Rutter helped him out with tactics and systems. Paul Hart is a dinosaur who has achieved nothing at management level other than failure. This is not someone who should be advising our manager on coaching, team selections and substitutions. If our Board really want to keep faith in NJ then we need to be ruthless and give Hart the boot. If NJ doesn't like it, he can walk out with him. In Hart's place, we appoint a No. 2 who has appropriate FA coaching badges for our level. Not sure we'd have much luck attracting Rutter back to England. He found the commute to Luton from Yeovil tiresome and he'd be putting in a lot of mileage getting to Stoke as well, plus he sees a lot more of his family (and the sun!) in his current job in Greece. I'm not sure we could lure Harford from Luton, and I'm all for this Chapple bloke from Brighton being our Chief Scout, but Head of Recruitment requires someone experienced at the highest level of the game. How about going leftfield with someone like Paul Scholes? If we get the right infrastructure around NJ, then I reckon we have a platform to enable him to do what he does best – manage the team.
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Post by serpico on Sept 2, 2019 14:29:12 GMT
It’s looking more and more likely that jones was just a cog in the machine that was lutons success and not the main driver, it would make sense from what we’ve seen so far at stoke now he no longer has that backroom staff with him.
I think stoke need to act swiftly here and relieve him of his duties, he’s clearly not qualified for the job!
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Post by SCFC92 on Sept 2, 2019 14:34:13 GMT
What a load of utter utter SHIT
It's sour grapes over him leaving, why not accept the bloke worked wonders on your team and moved to a bigger club with the hope of achieving more, where as of yet it hasn't worked out.
You guys got promoted and are doing well and that IS in some part down the management of our manager.
Utter salty sour bollocks being posted on here at the moment, get some clarity.
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Post by philb on Sept 2, 2019 14:41:43 GMT
First I'd heard of the man was 2 days before he was annouced as Stoke manager. We took a gamble and it didn't pay off. ‘Young, up and coming forward thinking manager’ 🙄
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Post by serpico on Sept 2, 2019 14:44:07 GMT
What a load of utter utter SHIT It's sour grapes over him leaving, why not accept the bloke worked wonders on your team and moved to a bigger club with the hope of achieving more, where as of yet it hasn't worked out. You guys got promoted and are doing well and that IS in some part down the management of our manager. Utter salty sour bollocks being posted on here at the moment, get some clarity. What if it’s true though ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 14:45:19 GMT
What a load of utter utter SHIT It's sour grapes over him leaving, why not accept the bloke worked wonders on your team and moved to a bigger club with the hope of achieving more, where as of yet it hasn't worked out. You guys got promoted and are doing well and that IS in some part down the management of our manager. Utter salty sour bollocks being posted on here at the moment, get some clarity. What if it’s true though ? There are some people who will refuse to see what's happening right in front of their faces. It's just bad luck apparently.
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Post by SCFC92 on Sept 2, 2019 14:47:58 GMT
What if it’s true though ? There are some people who will refuse to see what's happening right in front of their faces. It's just bad luck apparently. No it's not bad luck, we're fucking wank at the moment and I agree there are serious questions to be asked and I am currently unsure over whether Jones is the correct guy for us in our current situation. But to completely disregard the manager of a team who have enjoyed success for the last 3 seasons is as mental as our current situation. You can recruit the gems and the players to a club, however it is the manager who picks the tactics, the style and runs the day to day footballing matters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 14:54:06 GMT
There are some people who will refuse to see what's happening right in front of their faces. It's just bad luck apparently. No it's not bad luck, we're fucking wank at the moment and I agree there are serious questions to be asked and I am currently unsure over whether Jones is the correct guy for us in our current situation. But to completely disregard the manager of a team who have enjoyed success for the last 3 seasons is as mental as our current situation. You can recruit the gems and the players to a club, however it is the manager who picks the tactics, the style and runs the day to day footballing matters. There is a lot of what he says which starts to ring true though doesn't it - especially about his ego and he treatment of the young players. It's worrying because you can see it happening. I was not meaning to be rude to you. If anyone is keeping any faith with NJ you're probably a better person than me! Just tipped me over the edge with this Verlinden thing today.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 2, 2019 15:05:46 GMT
Does the OP want some vinegar with all that salt?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 2, 2019 15:08:49 GMT
First I'd heard of the man was 2 days before he was annouced as Stoke manager. We took a gamble and it didn't pay off. ‘Young, up and coming forward thinking manager’ 🙄 Makes you laugh doesn't it. Just because he's young and got promotion from league 2. Thats what they were saying about Steve Davies at Crewe at the time. Absolute joke.
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 2, 2019 15:30:08 GMT
More evidence of our naive board being taken in by a bullshitter. I was about to say that about this thread
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 2, 2019 15:45:55 GMT
What if it’s true though ? There are some people who will refuse to see what's happening right in front of their faces. It's just bad luck apparently. It's two different things, surely? Jones is culpable for his time here. He's also worthy of the credit for what he did there. If the Luton fans felt so strongly that way about him they'd have shrugged his departure off without much thought rather than getting all hormonal about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 15:46:56 GMT
There are some people who will refuse to see what's happening right in front of their faces. It's just bad luck apparently. It's two different things, surely? Jones is culpable for his time here. He's also worthy of the credit for what he did there. If the Luton fans felt so strongly that way about him they'd have shrugged his departure off without much thought rather than getting all hormonal about it. I was referring to the comments on him being egotistical and his views on his treatment of the youngsters.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 2, 2019 15:48:28 GMT
It's two different things, surely? Jones is culpable for his time here. He's also worthy of the credit for what he did there. If the Luton fans felt so strongly that way about him they'd have shrugged his departure off without much thought rather than getting all hormonal about it. I was referring to the comments on him being egotistical and his views on his treatment of the youngsters. I thought you were just agreeing with Serpico's suggestion that everything the OP said was true?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 15:54:32 GMT
I was referring to the comments on him being egotistical and his views on his treatment of the youngsters. I thought you were just agreeing with Serpico's suggestion that everything the OP said was true? Not everything but I specifically asked the OP about the youngsters and I can't disagree with what he says about Nathan Jones being only out for Nathan Jones.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 2, 2019 15:58:43 GMT
More evidence of our naive board being taken in by a bullshitter.........but I think we know this now surely. Makes Rowett look like Guardiola What evidence?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 16:03:27 GMT
Successful management is as much about having the right support staff around you as it is about the figurehead.....think of Clough and Taylor as a prime example and the Liverpool bootroom as another. Having Paul Hart as your righthand man is not very inspiring is it,he's failed everywhere he's been.
Jones is clearly out of his depth but what assistance and guidance is he getting from those around him ?
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Post by mrred on Sept 2, 2019 16:12:40 GMT
What a load of utter utter SHIT It's sour grapes over him leaving, why not accept the bloke worked wonders on your team and moved to a bigger club with the hope of achieving more, where as of yet it hasn't worked out. You guys got promoted and are doing well and that IS in some part down the management of our manager. Utter salty sour bollocks being posted on here at the moment, get some clarity. It is to be honest. Look on any Twitter thread from Luton in the year before he left, theres nothing but their fans fawning over him. To change history like this is a bit predictable really.
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Post by mcw on Sept 2, 2019 17:04:26 GMT
It's two different things, surely? Jones is culpable for his time here. He's also worthy of the credit for what he did there. If the Luton fans felt so strongly that way about him they'd have shrugged his departure off without much thought rather than getting all hormonal about it. I was referring to the comments on him being egotistical and his views on his treatment of the youngsters. In relation to being egotistical, I think any very good manager has to have that in their locker. They have to have ultimate belief in their abilities to the point of disregarding outside noise. He did extremely well at Luton and whether part of a cog or not, he deserves credit for what he did. It seems to me that he relies a lot on a kind of evangelical fanaticism whereby players are swept up by his words and positive vibes which then (at Luton at least) was transported into results on the pitch. Now arriving at Stoke he has been confronted with a set of players that have been through the ringer from all sides for 2 seasons plus in some cases and his words/positive vibes are dropping out of his mouth and landing flat on the floor like a stale fart. New recruits have been brainwashed initially until they look around and see the rest of the group are sat there gawping and cowering like timid mice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 17:08:39 GMT
I was referring to the comments on him being egotistical and his views on his treatment of the youngsters. In relation to being egotistical, I think any very good manager has to have that in their locker. They have to have ultimate belief in their abilities to the point of disregarding outside noise. He did extremely well at Luton and whether part of a cog or not, he deserves credit for what he did. It seems to me that he relies a lot on a kind of evangelical fanaticism whereby players are swept up by his words and positive vibes which then (at Luton at least) was transported into results on the pitch. Now arriving at Stoke he has been confronted with a set of players that have been through the ringer from all sides for 2 seasons plus in some cases and his words/positive vibes are dropping out of his mouth and landing flat on the floor like a stale fart. New recruits have been brainwashed initially until they look around and see the rest of the group are sat there gawping and cowering like timid mice. Unfortunately I think the reason is he’s confronted with a group of players most of whom have played at the highest level and for very good managers and are not taken in by his bullshit. Although I agree most manager are egotistical. I’ve only ever heard Mourinho reach his level. It is too much for someone who, although his promotions in League One and Two are achievements, has achieved very little in the grand scheme of the footballing world.
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Post by ballboytoday on Sept 2, 2019 18:34:22 GMT
In relation to being egotistical, I think any very good manager has to have that in their locker. They have to have ultimate belief in their abilities to the point of disregarding outside noise. He did extremely well at Luton and whether part of a cog or not, he deserves credit for what he did. It seems to me that he relies a lot on a kind of evangelical fanaticism whereby players are swept up by his words and positive vibes which then (at Luton at least) was transported into results on the pitch. Now arriving at Stoke he has been confronted with a set of players that have been through the ringer from all sides for 2 seasons plus in some cases and his words/positive vibes are dropping out of his mouth and landing flat on the floor like a stale fart. New recruits have been brainwashed initially until they look around and see the rest of the group are sat there gawping and cowering like timid mice. Unfortunately I think the reason is he’s confronted with a group of players most of whom have played at the highest level and for very good managers and are not taken in by his bullshit. Although I agree most manager are egotistical. I’ve only ever heard Mourinho reach his level. It is too much for someone who, although his promotions in League One and Two are achievements, has achieved very little in the grand scheme of the footballing world. Correct, he has achieved very little only promotion from league 2 cannot put Lutons promotion from league 1 down to NJ. Its proving now he his totally out of his depth and it was a big gamble to expect someone with so little success at a lower level to achieve promotion to the premier league which is what we signed him for wasn't it? Todays loaning of Verlinden just confirms that the man is clueless!
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Post by philm87 on Sept 2, 2019 18:36:49 GMT
And for his next trick the OP will predict last week's lottery numbers.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2019 18:42:24 GMT
What a load of utter utter SHIT It's sour grapes over him leaving, why not accept the bloke worked wonders on your team and moved to a bigger club with the hope of achieving more, where as of yet it hasn't worked out. You guys got promoted and are doing well and that IS in some part down the management of our manager. Utter salty sour bollocks being posted on here at the moment, get some clarity. It is to be honest. Look on any Twitter thread from Luton in the year before he left, theres nothing but their fans fawning over him. To change history like this is a bit predictable really. It's what Aesop said thousands of years ago "sour grapes".
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2019 18:53:25 GMT
Unfortunately I think the reason is he’s confronted with a group of players most of whom have played at the highest level and for very good managers and are not taken in by his bullshit. Although I agree most manager are egotistical. I’ve only ever heard Mourinho reach his level. It is too much for someone who, although his promotions in League One and Two are achievements, has achieved very little in the grand scheme of the footballing world. Correct, he has achieved very little only promotion from league 2 cannot put Lutons promotion from league 1 down to NJ. Its proving now he his totally out of his depth and it was a big gamble to expect someone with so little success at a lower level to achieve promotion to the premier league which is what we signed him for wasn't it? Todays loaning of Verlinden just confirms that the man is clueless! Not correct. He left Luton and they continued to be very successful and gained promotion. He clearly had set up sustainable systems that continued in his absence, the sign of an excellent manager. How many promotions had Rowett achieved. "Only promotion from league 2" sounds like a nothing achievement. As I've pointed out before Cluogh and Furguson started their careers in the bottom tiers. As for Verliden being loaned Jones has done more than Pulis, Hughes, Lambert, and Rowett combined to bring on young players.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 19:00:39 GMT
Correct, he has achieved very little only promotion from league 2 cannot put Lutons promotion from league 1 down to NJ. Its proving now he his totally out of his depth and it was a big gamble to expect someone with so little success at a lower level to achieve promotion to the premier league which is what we signed him for wasn't it? Todays loaning of Verlinden just confirms that the man is clueless! Not correct. He left Luton and they continued to be very successful and gained promotion. He clearly had set up sustainable systems that continued in his absence, the sign of an excellent manager. How many promotions had Rowett achieved. "Only promotion from league 2" sounds like a nothing achievement. As I've pointed out before Cluogh and Furguson started their careers in the bottom tiers. As for Verliden being loaned Jones has done more than Pulis, Hughes, Lambert, and Rowett combined to bring on young players. None of those managers promised young, fast, athletic, attacking football. At least with TP you knew exactly where you stood, Hughes it’s a bit different as for a few years we were pushing on the prem. Lambert was in a relegation battle. Rowett well he never promised did he. The difference here is that he’s doing the opposite of what he promised.
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