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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 1, 2019 12:39:06 GMT
Imagine having to make this decision. Any thoughts on difficult decisions? Anything comparable to this? Hiroshima Vietnam. Does the end justify the means? Any closer to home? www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27703724It has been a taboo subject in France for 70 years but in his D-Day commemoration speech on 6 June, President Francois Hollande will pay tribute to the terrible civilian casualties suffered by the French due to Allied bombing up to and during the liberation of France. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_France_during_World_War_II |
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 1, 2019 14:36:21 GMT
What will Hollande say about the Vichy government & them sending Jews to the gas chambers...
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 1, 2019 15:12:17 GMT
The vagaries of war. Read the book SAS Nazi Hunters by Damien Lewis the true account of SAS chasing down Nazi butchers, after the war, who had murdered in cold blood the families of French Resistance as a punishment for collaboration with the Allies. The Allies did not deliberately kill French civilians however the Nazis acted in deliberate cold blooded butchery, perhaps not in the same scale as Allied bombing deaths, but nevertheless a very deliberate act. The Nazis were never fully held to account because the Allies needed their intelligence on Russia as the shape of Europe quickly changed as Russia closed the Iron Curtain.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 1, 2019 15:25:38 GMT
The vagaries of war. Read the book SAS Nazi Hunters by Damien Lewis the true account of SAS chasing down Nazi butchers, after the war, who had murdered in cold blood the families of French Resistance as a punishment for collaboration with the Allies. The Allies did not deliberately kill French civilians however the Nazis acted in deliberate cold blooded butchery, perhaps not in the same scale as Allied bombing deaths, but nevertheless a very deliberate act. The Nazis were never fully held to account because the Allies needed their intelligence on Russia as the shape of Europe quickly changed as Russia closed the Iron Curtain. £&#&!n Fascists! Franco had the eldest sons of republicans shot. |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Sept 1, 2019 19:37:27 GMT
Imagine having to make this decision. Any thoughts on difficult decisions? Anything comparable to this? Hiroshima Vietnam. Does the end justify the means? Any closer to home? www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27703724It has been a taboo subject in France for 70 years but in his D-Day commemoration speech on 6 June, President Francois Hollande will pay tribute to the terrible civilian casualties suffered by the French due to Allied bombing up to and during the liberation of France. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_France_during_World_War_IIThe decisions behind The American Civil War? 620,000 fatalities- tearing your country asunder in the hope of subsequently constructing something nobler? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 1, 2019 19:43:41 GMT
Imagine having to make this decision. Any thoughts on difficult decisions? Anything comparable to this? Hiroshima Vietnam. Does the end justify the means? Any closer to home? www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27703724It has been a taboo subject in France for 70 years but in his D-Day commemoration speech on 6 June, President Francois Hollande will pay tribute to the terrible civilian casualties suffered by the French due to Allied bombing up to and during the liberation of France. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_France_during_World_War_IIThe decisions behind The American Civil War? 620,000 fatalities- tearing your country asunder in the hope of subsequently constructing something nobler? For the one I quoted Simon I just tried to imagine those actually making the decision knowing that they were going to kill totally innocent people/ civilians who were on the same side. As it transpires it doesn't seem to have achieved much as I understand it. |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Sept 1, 2019 20:36:01 GMT
The decisions behind The American Civil War? 620,000 fatalities- tearing your country asunder in the hope of subsequently constructing something nobler? For the one I quoted Simon I just tried to imagine those actually making the decision knowing that they were going to kill totally innocent people/ civilians who were on the same side. As it transpires it doesn't seem to have achieved much as I understand it. Agreed,although perhaps the modern sense of repulsion is exacerbated by the ability to conduct conflicts these days with technology that (supposedly) means less collateral damage. It's an interesting subject,i'd never realised the extent of the bombardment Japan had been subjected to in the run up to a projected allied invasion and that's before you even consider the annihilation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fire bombing of Tokyo was particularly devaststing and many saw/still see it as a purely punitive act. I recall Lisa Jardine investigating and attempting to resolve the ethical conundrum around her father's role (Jacob Bronowski,as moral,compassionate and intellectual a man as any,) in utilising his mathematical genius to help maximise Allied bombing patterns in World War II, in 'My Father,the Bomb and Me...' |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 1, 2019 20:37:45 GMT
For the one I quoted Simon I just tried to imagine those actually making the decision knowing that they were going to kill totally innocent people/ civilians who were on the same side. As it transpires it doesn't seem to have achieved much as I understand it. Agreed,although perhaps the modern sense of repulsion is exacerbated by the ability to conduct conflicts these days with technology that (supposedly) means less collateral damage. It's an interesting subject,i'd never realised the extent of the bombardment Japan had been subjected to in the run up to a projected allied invasion and that's before you even consider the annihilation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fire bombing of Tokyo was particularly devaststing and many saw/still see it as a purely punitive act. I recall Lisa Jardine investigating and attempting to resolve the ethical conundrum around her father's role (Jacob Bronowski,as moral,compassionate and intellectual a man as any,) in utilising his mathematical genius to help maximise Allied bombing patterns in World War II, in 'My Father,the Bomb and Me...' I did not know any of that either. |
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