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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 9:21:30 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him On the flip side if it were that simple how come Leeds almost got promoted last season and are top of the league this season? Looking at it another way in 3 games against Leeds Jones has come out on top in two of them......
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 29, 2019 9:26:10 GMT
I think we should nickname him
'Bielsa Bob'
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Post by SCFC92 on Aug 29, 2019 9:28:08 GMT
Some of us don't half like to attack our own manager.
It's odd.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 9:33:55 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him On the flip side if it were that simple how come Leeds almost got promoted last season and are top of the league this season? Looking at it another way in 3 games against Leeds Jones has come out on top in two of them...... I think people forget Leeds finished 13th the season before he arrived. Then with one preseason and a handful of players he turned them into an absolute machine. He’s certainly been able to get the best out of the players he has. I watched the Leeds documentary and there was quite a bit on how he’d analysed all of the players that were available and worked out their strengths and what he could do with them. Even if we do do that we didn’t do a very good job 👀
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Aug 29, 2019 10:01:50 GMT
Some of us don't half like to attack our own manager. It's odd. All the usual bellends bemoaning Jones not being at Bielsa's level after what, 3 years in management? All whilst thinking they know better than Jones. It's absolutely laughable. "I bet he does;t even do any research on the opposition". Jesus Wept.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 10:08:26 GMT
Some of us don't half like to attack our own manager. It's odd. All the usual bellends bemoaning Jones not being at Bielsa's level after what, 3 years in management? All whilst thinking they know better than Jones. It's absolutely laughable. "I bet he does;t even do any research on the opposition". Jesus Wept. I don't think anyone would claim he should be at the same level but there is a question as to was it the right and most sensible appointment if we were aiming for a quick return when you have a manager like Bielsa in the same league. Did we aim high enough/look far enough. Easy to say with hindsight but it feels like we're someones experiment at the moment!
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Aug 29, 2019 10:14:51 GMT
All the usual bellends bemoaning Jones not being at Bielsa's level after what, 3 years in management? All whilst thinking they know better than Jones. It's absolutely laughable. "I bet he does;t even do any research on the opposition". Jesus Wept. I don't think anyone would claim he should be at the same level but there is a question as to was it the right and most sensible appointment if we were aiming for a quick return when you have a manager like Bielsa in the same league. Did we aim high enough/look far enough. Easy to say with hindsight but it feels like we're someones experiment at the moment! Moan, moan, moan. Someone on here was moaning about his socks the other week. Bielsa wouldn't have come here in a million years. If he came he wouldn't have lasted a week. Stoke fans need patience. Bielsa failed to get promotion last year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 10:21:38 GMT
I don't think anyone would claim he should be at the same level but there is a question as to was it the right and most sensible appointment if we were aiming for a quick return when you have a manager like Bielsa in the same league. Did we aim high enough/look far enough. Easy to say with hindsight but it feels like we're someones experiment at the moment! Moan, moan, moan. Someone on here was moaning about his socks the other week. Bielsa wouldn't have come here in a million years. If he came he wouldn't have lasted a week. Stoke fans need patience. Bielsa failed to get promotion last year. No but he took a team that was 13th and got them as close as you can come...not make them worse so that 8 months into his reign they were sat at the bottom of the Championship with 1 point. Both are quite incredible feats at either end of the spectrum but I think most would be content with a happy medium that didn't ask the world but wasn't a complete and utter embarrassment. Someone made a joke about his socks. I commend anyone who is retaining a sense of humour in these miserable times.
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 29, 2019 12:03:52 GMT
Leeds are and have been a loathsome club. But you have to say Bielsa has them playing some great football. This season all he has done is added some very smart loanees Nketiah Costa Harrison White. All young fast players. Not spent a penny on fees. In contrast we have loaned Hogan Duffy and CCV some contrast. As for Bielsa not joining us it's more a case of our hierarchy not wanting foreign or possibly they had never heard of him. I said pre season that Leeds would walk this league and they will. Under Jones we will be kicking around mid table champs until his contract expires.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Aug 29, 2019 12:06:19 GMT
This is a bizarre dig at Jones.
He's beaten Bielsa twice in 3 attempts.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 29, 2019 16:43:46 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones? The last manager we had 'of experience and standing' was Hughes who destroyed our club. Hughes took us to three ninth place finishes. He didn't destroy us. Rowetts' signings are the biggest problem. However, I can't help thinking they stuck with Hughes for too long because they were star struck. Since then they've appointed small time managers.
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Post by ceejays on Aug 29, 2019 19:07:14 GMT
Just to clarify. I’m a big Jones fan and have defended him on this board on my occasions. The point of my thread is it seems to me we don’t analyse the opposition. Now you can go overboard (Revie style) and bore the pants off your own players with endless analysis. Of course stoke do analyse. They’ve all got their flip chart and PowerPoint sheets when a substitute is made. Fact is though that I waiting for the day when we play like Leeds do currently. I repeat this thread is not a dig at Jones per se though I appreciate it can be seen that way
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 19:17:56 GMT
Just to clarify. I’m a big Jones fan and have defended him on this board on my occasions. The point of my thread is it seems to me we don’t analyse the opposition. Now you can go overboard (Revie style) and bore the pants off your own players with endless analysis. Of course stoke do analyse. They’ve all got their flip chart and PowerPoint sheets when a substitute is made. Fact is though that I waiting for the day when we play like Leeds do currently. I repeat this thread is not a dig at Jones per se though I appreciate it can be seen that way You are not allowed to question anything. That’s not how the cult works 😉
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Post by Gods on Aug 29, 2019 19:22:51 GMT
The last manager we had 'of experience and standing' was Hughes who destroyed our club. Hughes took us to three ninth place finishes. He didn't destroy us. Rowetts' signings are the biggest problem. However, I can't help thinking they stuck with Hughes for too long because they were star struck. Since then they've appointed small time managers. Rowetts' signings are absolutely not our biggest problem. Ince, McLean and Clucas are above average Championship players and Afobe is perfectly passable with some service.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 20:09:04 GMT
Hughes took us to three ninth place finishes. He didn't destroy us. Rowetts' signings are the biggest problem. However, I can't help thinking they stuck with Hughes for too long because they were star struck. Since then they've appointed small time managers. Rowetts' signings are absolutely not our biggest problem. Ince, McLean and Clucas are above average Championship players and Afobe is perfectly passable with some service. I agree with you on them as individuals but the signing of them, and the amount spent on them, for them to be played in a system they weren’t suited to...was a huge problem.
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Post by block23 on Aug 29, 2019 20:24:44 GMT
Bielsa is clearly a very good manager and fair play to Leeds for having the balls to get him. Don’t see the point in trying to compare him to Jones to be honest, and I’m buggered if I know if to support Jones or get rid, feels like we are knackered either way at the moment.
One thing that pissed me off on Tuesday was all of the Leeds coaching staff antics. They had as many as 6 at times in the technical area, screaming* at the ref, the linesman and the 4th official. They completely ignored the 4th officials attempts at getting them to sit down, even when 3 of them got yellow cards! Shithouse behaviour and it needs to be stopped. I think I celebrated more because of them than actually winning, or I was delirious from seen penalties scored😀
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 29, 2019 20:38:03 GMT
I binge watched the Leeds documentary the other night. The thing that struck me most on it was an interview they did with Luke Ayling shortly after it had been announced Bielsa was to be Leeds manager. Ayling hadn’t even met Bielsa but he said something along the lines of “he’s a world class manager and a massive name, because of that you’re going to do absolutely anything he asks you to do”. It just goes to show that having a strong reputation in football is half of the battle. He had the Leeds players litter picking and training 10 hour days during his first pre-season without a single grumble. I imagine the reaction from the players would have been different if it was Gary Monk or even Nathan Jones trying to implement the same methods. What documentary is this?
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Post by chuckrocky on Aug 29, 2019 20:58:21 GMT
I binge watched the Leeds documentary the other night. The thing that struck me most on it was an interview they did with Luke Ayling shortly after it had been announced Bielsa was to be Leeds manager. Ayling hadn’t even met Bielsa but he said something along the lines of “he’s a world class manager and a massive name, because of that you’re going to do absolutely anything he asks you to do”. It just goes to show that having a strong reputation in football is half of the battle. He had the Leeds players litter picking and training 10 hour days during his first pre-season without a single grumble. I imagine the reaction from the players would have been different if it was Gary Monk or even Nathan Jones trying to implement the same methods. What documentary is this? It’s called “Take us home”, it’s a behind the scenes documentary from last season, similar to the Sunderland one. Its available to watch on amazon.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 29, 2019 23:48:22 GMT
I had a chat with a Leeds supporter before the match on Tuesday. We agreed that Leeds may be in the ascendancy today, but it was better (more rewarding/enjoyable) being a Stoke fan for the last 2 decades than a Leeds fan.
We discussed why Leeds missed out last season after being in the top 2 positions fro most of the season. He did not know why they blew it, but I suggested it could be the fans fault. Leeds supporters like Newcastle, Liverpool, ManU and Arsenal put huge pressure on the clubs and their managers, expecting success as a given right; a carry over from their hugely successful histories. Such pressure can cause the manager to crack or deviate from his normal action to satisfy fans demands. (Rowett?)
I have another theory which is the high intensity football Leeds play can be too demanding over a whole season. Players can suffer burn out towards the end of the season. In both the recent Leeds matches it has been remarkable to see 2 or even 3 of Bielsa's assistants in the technical area barking out orders to the Leeds players. IMO Butland's form has suffered because of all the pressure of speculation on his future.
Tony Pulis puts huge pressure on his players to get fit pre-season and intense fitness training. Peter Crouch said after he came to Stoke he had never trained under such intense pressure before. The down side is by the new year Pulis' teams can be pretty jaded and their form suffers as the end of season approaches.
To compare Bielsa and Jones is truly odious. Bielsa is a manager of vast experience managing Argentina, Chile, Bibao, Marseille, and Lazio. But it is actually a long time since he achieved anything apart from getting Leeds to the play-offs for the first time. He also has a reputation for falling out with people, players and other club officials and doing rather eccentric things. He might yet foul things up again at Leeds this season. Jones on the other has is still a relatively inexperienced young manager and has made his mark in the lower divisions and won promotion. Time will tell whether he will progress and blossom.
One thing both Bielsa and Jones have in common is that they are both very devout religious men.
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