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Post by ceejays on Aug 29, 2019 5:03:06 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 29, 2019 5:11:44 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him I've noticed similar and I thought Jones was meant to be an analyst? 🤷♂️ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 6:52:05 GMT
I’ve not seen him talk about our strengths and weaknesses or the oppositions strengths and weaknesses like Bielsa does including individual players. If you listen to the respective post match interviews after the game on Sat from both of them you’ll see what I mean.
NJ did say after the Bielsa’s spygate press conference last year that it wasn’t that impressive cos every manager does it or something along those lines but if you’re asking what evidence I’ve seen - none.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:10:35 GMT
I’ve not seen him talk about our strengths and weaknesses or the oppositions strengths and weaknesses like Bielsa does including individual players. If you listen to the respective post match interviews after the game on Sat from both of them you’ll see what I mean. NJ did say after the Bielsa’s spygate press conference last year that it wasn’t that impressive cos every manager does it or something along those lines but if you’re asking what evidence I’ve seen - none. I bet none of our last four managers did or do it. |
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Post by djduncanjames on Aug 29, 2019 7:13:06 GMT
Didn't him and Joaquin stay up till to 2am analyzing Leeds Utd last season when we beat them? Maybe he does it "crunch time" style like a student the night before exams  To be honest, his personal and primary focus is probably on coaching these players right now and consults with other departments who cover the analysis aspect |
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Post by Gods on Aug 29, 2019 7:14:43 GMT
Jones always says 'against a good Leeds/Preston/Wigan whoever it might be team' but I'm not sure if that passes for analysis. Let's be generous and say he keeps the info close to his chest.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:18:20 GMT
Jones always says 'against a good Leeds/Preston/Wigan whoever it might be team' but I'm not sure if that passes for analysis. Let's be generous and say he keeps the info close to his chest. And we just “need to be better” 👀 |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 29, 2019 7:18:53 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign.
Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular.
What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed.
Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones?
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Post by fca47 on Aug 29, 2019 7:20:47 GMT
Trouble is we don't have a midfielder who can win a tackle. Even when we have two men attempting to tackle one we can't win it. I've never seen any side with as little bite as this one.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Aug 29, 2019 7:22:29 GMT
Bielsa 1 Jones 2
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:23:14 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones? I’d hazard a guess that some of the powers that be don’t want their egos to be bruised by hiring someone they can’t keep under their thumb...or we’re just fucking thick. One of the two. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:24:35 GMT
Bielsa, - narrowly missed promotion. Currently sat top of the table. Jones - 3 league wins in how many is it now? To even compare the two is laughable. |
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Post by greyman on Aug 29, 2019 7:27:07 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him You must get 'in Forshaw'? Drastic times. |
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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 29, 2019 7:28:21 GMT
Bielsa, - narrowly missed promotion. Currently sat top of the table. Jones - 3 league wins in how many is it now? To even compare the two is laughable. I thought it was laughable at the weekend how jones compared himself to bielsa albeit at a lower level the two are on completely different levels to each other 😂 |
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Post by stokerstayinup on Aug 29, 2019 7:28:28 GMT
Bielsa, - narrowly missed promotion. Currently sat top of the table. Jones - 3 league wins in how many is it now? To even compare the two is laughable. Youre the one who said youve seen no evidence of Jones doing any work on the opposition.Ive just provided you with some. |
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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 29, 2019 7:30:07 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones? I’d hazard a guess that some of the powers that be don’t want their egos to be bruised by hiring someone they can’t keep under their thumb...or we’re just fucking thick. One of the two. Both! |
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 29, 2019 7:32:04 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones?
And while it cannot possibly all hinge on the choice of manager alone, our selections have surely been indicative of a much bigger horlicks going on across the club.
The questions go way beyond the manager.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:32:21 GMT
Bielsa, - narrowly missed promotion. Currently sat top of the table. Jones - 3 league wins in how many is it now? To even compare the two is laughable. Youre the one who said youve seen no evidence of Jones doing any work on the opposition.Ive just provided you with some. Please explain to me how that shows anything when we’ve won 3 games in 26 or whatever? Are you saying he only does it for Leeds? |
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Post by stokerstayinup on Aug 29, 2019 7:37:55 GMT
Youre the one who said youve seen no evidence of Jones doing any work on the opposition.Ive just provided you with some. Please explain to me how that shows anything when we’ve won 3 games in 26 or whatever? Are you saying he only does it for Leeds? You were comparing his alleged lack of prep to Bielsa's.I'm saying thats obviously bullshit |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:42:15 GMT
Please explain to me how that shows anything when we’ve won 3 games in 26 or whatever? Are you saying he only does it for Leeds? You were comparing his alleged lack of prep to Bielsa's.I'm saying thats obviously bullshit Right... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 7:49:16 GMT
That's the order I'd put them in as well, regarding their managerial skills. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 29, 2019 8:00:54 GMT
I’ve said on other threads, Bielsa is very much into understanding a fanbase, city and football club rather than the money, he lives in a bedsit in Wetherby and often sleeps in his office at Thorp Arch. If we had offered him a job here when we were in the top flight I’ve pretty much no doubt he would have turned us down on the prior two conditions. It’s also pretty unfair to compare Jones and Bielsa I think, Bielsa’s one of the game’s leading innovators and Jones is a baby in managerial terms to him, to beat him once outright and then get a cup win against him on his own patch albeit a weaker side is good going on NJ’s part.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 29, 2019 8:03:16 GMT
It doesn't matter how much analysis you do of the opposition if your players can't tackle, can't track the far post man, are down on your luck like Stoke are at the moment and are very lacking in confidence.
On the other hand I did feel that their first goal on Tuesday came because he'd told the players that Butland rolls the ball along the ground while waiting for Stoke players to get in position so rush him as soon as he does resulting in Butland's hurried clearance hitting a Stoke player who was still running upfield with his back to goal. Hopefully Butland has learned not to release the ball too soon.
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Post by BristolMick on Aug 29, 2019 8:54:17 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones? Are you off your rocker? What Uncle Pete appoint Johnny Foreigner as manager!! And one that needs an interpreter as well to speak the mother tongue? You really have drifted off into a world of of extreme debauchery. BM |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 29, 2019 9:05:56 GMT
I’ve said on other threads, Bielsa is very much into understanding a fanbase, city and football club rather than the money, he lives in a bedsit in Wetherby and often sleeps in his office at Thorp Arch. If we had offered him a job here when we were in the top flight I’ve pretty much no doubt he would have turned us down on the prior two conditions. It’s also pretty unfair to compare Jones and Bielsa I think, Bielsa’s one of the game’s leading innovators and Jones is a baby in managerial terms to him, to beat him once outright and then get a cup win against him on his own patch albeit a weaker side is good going on NJ’s part. Bielsa would have jumped at the chance of saving stoke in the top flight and having financial backing. He would know all about the history of our club as founding members, producing some of the greatest names in the history of the game, our superb support, the fact we are a more established top flight club than leeds having spent 15 more years than them in the top division, and having just been in that league for ten years while leeds haven't been in it for what, 15 years? At the end of the day, we do down our own club don't we, and think small time. Everyone does, the owners, management, and supporters. Maybe we deserve a lambert, rowett or jones, and leeds deserve bielsa. |
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Post by Gods on Aug 29, 2019 9:07:50 GMT
I’ve said on other threads, Bielsa is very much into understanding a fanbase, city and football club rather than the money, he lives in a bedsit in Wetherby and often sleeps in his office at Thorp Arch. If we had offered him a job here when we were in the top flight I’ve pretty much no doubt he would have turned us down on the prior two conditions. It’s also pretty unfair to compare Jones and Bielsa I think, Bielsa’s one of the game’s leading innovators and Jones is a baby in managerial terms to him, to beat him once outright and then get a cup win against him on his own patch albeit a weaker side is good going on NJ’s part. I love that, that's cracked me up, the idea of Bielsa holed out in a bedsit above a kebab shop with yellowing walls, stained carpet and a camp bed in the arse end of Wetherby :-) |
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Post by chuckrocky on Aug 29, 2019 9:10:46 GMT
I binge watched the Leeds documentary the other night. The thing that struck me most on it was an interview they did with Luke Ayling shortly after it had been announced Bielsa was to be Leeds manager.
Ayling hadn’t even met Bielsa but he said something along the lines of “he’s a world class manager and a massive name, because of that you’re going to do absolutely anything he asks you to do”.
It just goes to show that having a strong reputation in football is half of the battle. He had the Leeds players litter picking and training 10 hour days during his first pre-season without a single grumble. I imagine the reaction from the players would have been different if it was Gary Monk or even Nathan Jones trying to implement the same methods.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 29, 2019 9:12:10 GMT
I’ve said on other threads, Bielsa is very much into understanding a fanbase, city and football club rather than the money, he lives in a bedsit in Wetherby and often sleeps in his office at Thorp Arch. If we had offered him a job here when we were in the top flight I’ve pretty much no doubt he would have turned us down on the prior two conditions. It’s also pretty unfair to compare Jones and Bielsa I think, Bielsa’s one of the game’s leading innovators and Jones is a baby in managerial terms to him, to beat him once outright and then get a cup win against him on his own patch albeit a weaker side is good going on NJ’s part. Bielsa would have jumped at the chance of saving stoke in the top flight and having financial backing. He would know all about the history of our club as founding members, producing some of the greatest names in the history of the game, our superb support, the fact we are a more established top flight club than leeds having spent 15 more years than them in the top division, and having just been in that league for ten years while leeds haven't been in it for what, 15 years? At the end of the day, we do down our own club don't we, and think small time. Everyone does, the owners, management, and supporters. Maybe we deserve a lambert, rowett or jones, and leeds deserve bielsa. I think he would have taken one look at the set up behind the scenes and done what he did at Lazio in all honesty. I’d have loved Bielsa, I just don’t think he could or would have been willing to ever operate within our confines as the managers you mention have struggled to. This is before we even factor in the club size as mentioned above. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 9:13:21 GMT
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Post by reddipotter on Aug 29, 2019 9:13:33 GMT
Not so long ago stoke were far above Leeds in the pecking order. Stoke would never have considered Bielsa, him being foreign. Some of us on here always put Bielsa's name forward. I said each time we should consider him, when he was out of work in particular. What we should be asking is how leeds, who not long ago looked like a fuck up, and stoke, who not long ago were an established top flight club, have ended up completely reversing their fortunes as a result of the managers they appointed. Why did we not seek to employ a manager of the experience and standing of bielsa? Why did we appoint Lambert, Rowett then Jones? The last manager we had 'of experience and standing' was Hughes who destroyed our club. |
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