|
Post by sealion100 on Aug 21, 2019 21:35:17 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!.
|
|
|
Post by Bombus on Aug 21, 2019 21:58:48 GMT
Lad's suffering from depression or something I don't know what the fuck is up but lad has got to get his head straight before he turns up in a Stoke-shirt for a game again all the best Jack but this can't go on surely. Something is wrong
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Aug 21, 2019 22:22:18 GMT
Lad's suffering from depression or something I don't know what the fuck is up but lad has got to get his head straight before he turns up in a Stoke-shirt for a game again all the best Jack but this can't go on surely. Something is wrong Something is not right with him for sure. He is a top keeper who's career is falling off a cliff and he's taking Jones with him. He is completely killing our team at the moment, we start off well then his mistakes are completely demoralizing the players. I actually feel sorry for him, its not down to a lack of ability because he has loads of it. Maybe he needs rehab or something, its very out of character. Our defenders are now panicking because they don't trust him. He needs dropping but he also needs support as there is obviously an issue there and i believe he wants to play for us.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 21, 2019 22:28:17 GMT
Strikes me Jack is suffering from a GK's version of "the yips". He seems to freeze when someone shoots and becomes unable to move his limbs as he should. He still can perform instinctively as demonstrated when he made a brilliant save last Saturday, but there is clearly something mentally impeding his game. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YipsThe yips are involuntary wrist spasms that occur most commonly when golfers are trying to putt. However, the yips can also affect people who play other sports — such as cricket, darts and baseball. It was once thought that the yips were always associated with performance anxiety....
|
|
|
Post by ethers26 on Aug 21, 2019 22:35:29 GMT
We have conceded NINE goals from the last 14 shots on target faced.
THAT is the statistic.
We froze after the first mistake tonight, and it must be horrendous for Jones/our forwards trying to win a game with that shower of shit behind them.
|
|
|
Post by biglad180 on Aug 22, 2019 7:32:40 GMT
Never really thought butland was this top keeper everyone was talking about.and if we did have a offer off Bournemouth for butland involving begovic we should have snapped there hands off because he never has and never will be better than begovic.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:36:18 GMT
He has already said he will
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:37:58 GMT
Strikes me Jack is suffering from a GK's version of "the yips". He seems to freeze when someone shoots and becomes unable to move his limbs as he should. He still can perform instinctively as demonstrated when he made a brilliant save last Saturday, but there is clearly something mentally impeding his game. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YipsThe yips are involuntary wrist spasms that occur most commonly when golfers are trying to putt. However, the yips can also affect people who play other sports — such as cricket, darts and baseball. It was once thought that the yips were always associated with performance anxiety....So the goalkeeping equivalent of dartitis
|
|
|
Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Aug 22, 2019 7:48:05 GMT
Nobody knows what's wrong other than Jack. He is clearly all over the place and can see his career disappearing. He didn't expect to still be here and now sees his England chance further away than Mars. Feel a bit sorry for him but looking back he hasn't been right for a long time. If it were me I would leave him out til the window closes in Europe and then send him away for a month to try to get his head straight
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 22, 2019 7:50:56 GMT
Nobody knows what's wrong other than Jack. He is clearly all over the place and can see his career disappearing. He didn't expect to still be here and now sees his England chance further away than Mars. Feel a bit sorry for him but looking back he hasn't been right for a long time. If it were me I would leave him out til the window closes in Europe and then send him away for a month to try to get his head straight Mars? Jack's England chances are further away than Uranus.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 22, 2019 8:04:36 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. Posted the same, dont think irs anything to do with lack of bollocks but a genuine belief he is our best option. He us that bad at present he should be 4th choice
|
|
|
Post by callas12 on Aug 22, 2019 8:37:15 GMT
Aside from where Jack's head is at the moment I've always wondered why keepers in general are taught and almost force fed that they have to dive for the ball on every occasion it comes their way. Those two goals in the first half yesterday were totally preventable by simply booting it away, whether that be upfield or out for a throw in, it matters not it clears the danger and gives an opportunity to regroup. Admittedly it doesnt look as pretty or as sexy as diving for the ball but it gets the ball clear and stops it creeping into the net such as happened last night. When a shots coming in, the time it takes a keeper to get down and deal with it is far more time consuming than what a decisive kick to clear the danger is. Again this isnt only labelled at Jack as most if not all keepers do it, but for me, too much emphasis is placed on having to dive and deal with every ball rather than just dealing with it the most effective way possible on certain occasions. If you watch both of Preston's first half goals back last night, both could of been dealt with this way & I doubt we'd of conceded.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:39:46 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. Spot on his form is currently holding us back he's killing us.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Aug 22, 2019 8:48:47 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. Spot on his form is currently holding us back he's killing us. I hope the conclusion is not that if we remove Jack everything will be alright though. For the first goal the player has a free hit from 20 yards with no pressure on him, he could have lit a cigar before he smashed it home. OK we lose a bad goal, but from then we were awful. There was nothing to give any confidence at all. The shape looked wrong. There were players who just seemed to evaporate. Where was the fight? Were Clucas and Gregory even playing? Allen was only noticeable because he got knocked off the ball every time he had it. He looked like it was a burden for him to receive the ball. The players looked lost and Preston sauntered home.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Aug 22, 2019 8:49:13 GMT
Nobody knows what's wrong other than Jack. He is clearly all over the place and can see his career disappearing. He didn't expect to still be here and now sees his England chance further away than Mars. Feel a bit sorry for him but looking back he hasn't been right for a long time. If it were me I would leave him out til the window closes in Europe and then send him away for a month to try to get his head straight Not sure that sending him away would help. Only the people at the club know that but having two weeks with nothing to do could depress him even more. The club have to find a way of showing him how valued he is and helping him with his mental issues. Dropping him for the good of the team has to be the first priority but he needs to be involved and handled properly. When you read about Berahino in Belgium you do wonder whether our psychological care of players is good enough. Sure Andy Qay is probably Jack's closest friend at the club but he's a gk coach not a psychologist so there should be someone who understands how Jack's mind is working to talk to him.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 22, 2019 8:55:58 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. Spot on his form is currently holding us back he's killing us. I’m not in any way trying to defend JB however his two mistakes (three because of his attempted punch to clear the ball) last night were simply the “nails in the coffin” or end result of cumulative mistakes by others. I can’t remember seeing a central defender on the bye line heading a ball back into the area of play i.e the penalty area. Then we have another central defender with his body positioned sideways to a ball coming out of the sky and allowing it to bounce. The amount of space we continue allow other teams to have is criminal, sufficient space that would be welcomed at Hanley Bus Station. There’s a few who should be having a long hard look at themselves in the mirror
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:56:54 GMT
Spot on his form is currently holding us back he's killing us. I hope the conclusion is not that if we remove Jack everything will be alright though. For the first goal the player has a free hit from 20 yards with no pressure on him, he could have lit a cigar before he smashed it home. OK we lose a bad goal, but from then we were awful. There was nothing to give any confidence at all. The shape looked wrong. There were players who just seemed to evaporate. Where was the fight? Were Clucas and Gregory even playing? Allen was only noticeable because he got knocked off the ball every time he had it. He looked like it was a burden for him to receive the ball. The players looked lost and Preston sauntered home. It not a bad goal it's more than that it's killing us!! Smashed it home behave it bobbled through him weak as piss keeping. The second only just made it over the line it was smashed that hard. It might not make us world beaters but it will make a change from being one down after one shot.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:00:11 GMT
Spot on his form is currently holding us back he's killing us. I’m not in any way trying to defend JB however his two mistakes (three because of his attempted punch to clear the ball) last night were simply the “nails in the coffin” or end result of cumulative mistakes by others. I can’t remember seeing a central defender on the bye line heading a ball back into the area of play i.e the penalty area. Then we have another central defender with his body positioned sideways to a ball coming out of the sky and allowing it to bounce. The amount of space we continue allow other teams to have is criminal, sufficient space that would be welcomed at Hanley Bus Station. There’s a few who should be having a long hard look at themselves in the mirror I know BUT all that did not give a goal away he did. After all the shit defensive play the shots were not good and both should have been saved. 0-0 is better than 2-0 we can't compete with no keeper. We're not talking top class finishing following defensive mistakes we're talking throw your cap on them.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 22, 2019 9:01:30 GMT
It’s certainly a difficult stick or twist decision that’s got to be made for Saturday. Either way it could go horribly wrong for JB’s confidence.
I felt sorry for him last night when he was walking the pitch with AQ on the pitch a long time after the final whistle. He looked a shattered man.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:04:36 GMT
It’s certainly a difficult stick or twist decision that’s got to be made for Saturday. Either way it could go horribly wrong for JB’s confidence. I felt sorry for him last night when he was walking the pitch with AQ on the pitch a long time after the final whistle. He looked a shattered man. I'd rather his confidence than the WHOLE team, manager and fan base. I feel for him but he needs to be dropped I said it after the QPR game how long do we need to wait? Benik was not dropped he was thrown out of the club for less.
|
|
|
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 9:07:06 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. After one mistake, to drop him would have been harsh but now he has to be dropped, we will learn a lot about Jones’ management capability in the next few weeks.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:09:50 GMT
Poor performances undermining everything else ,I wrote that Jak should have been dropped after the QPR game but that Jones wouldn’t have the bollocks !!. After one mistake, to drop him would have been harsh but now he has to be dropped, we will learn a lot about Jones’ management capability in the next few weeks. One mistake in one game this season are you forgetting his previous. But 100% NJ has to act and if he doesn't then I'm done with him. He's ditched players for less including two strikers one of which is out of the club not the side.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 22, 2019 9:11:34 GMT
After one mistake, to drop him would have been harsh but now he has to be dropped, we will learn a lot about Jones’ management capability in the next few weeks. One mistake in one game this season are you forgetting his previous. But 100% NJ has to act and if he doesn't then I'm done with him. He's ditched players for less including two strikers one of which is out of the club not the side. Badou had 1 bad game last season. Bombed out. Butland is getting away with it time & time again because he is a gk?
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Aug 22, 2019 9:15:22 GMT
He’ll be devastated at the moment regarding his recent performances ( although we should not overlook his good play in these games ) and now being excluded from the England squad Maybe he was hoping / expecting to be our club captain The international break will be a difficult time in some ways but maybe a good opportunity to regroup and regain some confidence with a new group of players Although Ryan is out of the picture right now, we are missing an experienced captain, ( who knows the club ) to raise morale Maybe he can have some influence behind the scenes, helping new players integrate and be stronger as a team Very difficult, but fans can help too We all want the best for the club and I believe that the players and management are behind our manager
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:16:40 GMT
One mistake in one game this season are you forgetting his previous. But 100% NJ has to act and if he doesn't then I'm done with him. He's ditched players for less including two strikers one of which is out of the club not the side. Badou had 1 bad game last season. Bombed out. Butland is getting away with it time & time again because he is a gk? I know mate let's be honest the WHOLE side are shitting it bacause they know if the opposition get a shot away they will score. It's draining ALL the confidence from the team and it obvious. We played well on more than one occasion this season only for our keeper to throw it all away. 3 times this season we were all over teams only playing very well looking good than bang it's gone. You can't play without fear with no confidence in the keeper to save even the simplest chance.
|
|
|
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 9:17:58 GMT
After one mistake, to drop him would have been harsh but now he has to be dropped, we will learn a lot about Jones’ management capability in the next few weeks. One mistake in one game this season are you forgetting his previous. But 100% NJ has to act and if he doesn't then I'm done with him. He's ditched players for less including two strikers one of which is out of the club not the side. I was referring to Butland being dropped after the QPR game, Charlton’s first goal was his fault and obviously last night was laughable. To have dropped him after the QPR game would have been harsh but now he has to, if at least to take Jack out of the firing line unless he believes that Jack is a strong enough character to get through this.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:26:27 GMT
One mistake in one game this season are you forgetting his previous. But 100% NJ has to act and if he doesn't then I'm done with him. He's ditched players for less including two strikers one of which is out of the club not the side. I was referring to Butland being dropped after the QPR game, Charlton’s first goal was his fault and obviously last night was laughable. To have dropped him after the QPR game would have been harsh but now he has to, if at least to take Jack out of the firing line unless he believes that Jack is a strong enough character to get through this. I know but you have to look at the bigger picture in one game I saw he needed to go. He bottled it out wide when it was easy to clear it's not harsh it's football. Look at how others are treated binned with impunity and for less.
|
|
|
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 9:29:52 GMT
I was referring to Butland being dropped after the QPR game, Charlton’s first goal was his fault and obviously last night was laughable. To have dropped him after the QPR game would have been harsh but now he has to, if at least to take Jack out of the firing line unless he believes that Jack is a strong enough character to get through this. I know but you have to look at the bigger picture in one game I saw he needed to go. He bottled it out wide when it was easy to clear it's not harsh it's football. Look at how others are treated binned with impunity and for less. I fully take your point and clearly it would have been the correct thing to do in hindsight. Jones must drop the chancers and that begins with Joe Allen.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:36:08 GMT
I know but you have to look at the bigger picture in one game I saw he needed to go. He bottled it out wide when it was easy to clear it's not harsh it's football. Look at how others are treated binned with impunity and for less. I fully take your point and clearly it would have been the correct thing to do in hindsight. Jones must drop the chancers and that begins with Joe Allen. Allen is another one and no doubt he's not performing but there is a distinction Allen is NOT losing us games Jack is and I'll say it Jack has lost us 3 games. Yes Allen missed a sitter in the Derby game and yes it cost us in the end but it did not lose us the game. Unfortunately a keeper CAN lose a game for you and that's what is going on atm. You can blame outfield players for not winning us a game but by the same token you can blame the keeper for losing us a game, harsh but true.
|
|
|
Post by skelman on Aug 22, 2019 9:36:19 GMT
Jack's form was consistently very good before his injury in March 2016 and he had deservedly forced his way into the England squad. Lee Grant deputised for Butland well while he was out. Since his return Jack's not been able to show any consistency and really is a sorry shadow of his former self. Arguably our closing period in the PL and last year in the EFL could have been even worse without some of his miraculous shot stopping. But inconsistency in his kicking, general distribution, his inability to deal effectively with crosses and command his area plus a catalogue of 'inexplicable' schoolboy type errors resulting in goals has undermined his and our performances pretty often. All that is unsurprisingly reflected in his present England and this ongoing transfer speculation. If Jack thinks the remedy lies simply in a move to a PL or other top league side somewhere he'd best forget it. No club is going to shell out and pay his 'potential' value based on his current form. He needs to get his head down and sorted out, get on with at Stoke and begin to compete for his place.
Forget the quick cure Jack it's not going to happen. Accept the situation for what it is and get back to doing the basics well. Strikes me you're the type of chap who can do just that and over time I'm sure we'll see an even better, stronger Jack Butland than before.
|
|