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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2019 18:43:44 GMT
There has been concerns about chlorinated chicken. I hope that we do continue to move towards better and more detailed labelling as a legal requirement about sources of food, transport conditions etc. I was once told never to eat Indonesian prawns. These fish seem " unethical" m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2518263871551505&id=2024506934260537Any other knowledge/ advice on the EE board , ( seriously I have learnt an amazing amount from the people on here...that I've then followed up, thanks) ( except Mary of course,)
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Post by murphthesurf on Jul 8, 2019 19:20:13 GMT
There has been concerns about chlorinated chicken. I hope that we do continue to move towards better and more detailed labelling as a legal requirement about sources of food, transport conditions etc. I was once told never to eat Indonesian prawns. Any other knowledge/ advice on the EE board , ( seriously I have learnt an amazing amount from the people on here...that I've then followed up, thanks) ( except Mary of course,) Oh, well, that's buggered my reply up, BJ (well the very last bit has, anyway).....because reading all the way through it I was going to say to you 'Ask Mares - Mares knows EVERYTHING about healthy eating'. I wonder if any of our USA Stokies could tell us anything about their opinion on chlorinated chicken? Mind you, re. this chlorination business, I'm sure I've read somewhere in the past that the various bagged 'ready washed' salads sold in UK supermarkets have all been chlorinated as part of the washing...... Perhaps Harry can advise us? Actually, Bathy's quite a foodie, as well. See - spoiled for choice now......
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jul 8, 2019 23:21:05 GMT
You can eat as many chocolate chip cookies as you like in one sitting washed down with ice cold milk, not sure if it counts as part of your five a day but very nice. 🍪🥛
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 9, 2019 3:12:50 GMT
A lot of hysteria surrounding chlorinated chicken , the facts are that American chickens have a very very small salmonella infection rate compared to the unclorinated UK ones . At least the yanks have tried to resolve the problem . Salmonella food poisoning is nasty to say the least .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 5:56:58 GMT
There has been concerns about chlorinated chicken. I hope that we do continue to move towards better and more detailed labelling as a legal requirement about sources of food, transport conditions etc. I was once told never to eat Indonesian prawns. Any other knowledge/ advice on the EE board , ( seriously I have learnt an amazing amount from the people on here...that I've then followed up, thanks) ( except Mary of course,) Oh, well, that's buggered my reply up, BJ (well the very last bit has, anyway).....because reading all the way through it I was going to say to you 'Ask Mares - Mares knows EVERYTHING about healthy eating'. I wonder if any of our USA Stokies could tell us anything about their opinion on chlorinated chicken? Mind you, re. this chlorination business, I'm sure I've read somewhere in the past that the various bagged 'ready washed' salads sold in UK supermarkets have all been chlorinated as part of the washing......
Perhaps Harry can advise us? Actually, Bathy's quite a foodie, as well. See - spoiled for choice now...... wouldn’t surprise me murph. i wonder if that process has any effect on the nutrient content of the salad?
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Post by Northy on Jul 9, 2019 7:17:29 GMT
A lot of hysteria surrounding chlorinated chicken , the facts are that American chickens have a very very small salmonella infection rate compared to the unclorinated UK ones . At least the yanks have tried to resolve the problem . Salmonella food poisoning is nasty to say the least . If its cooked properly, what's the problem ? A yank I was with in London a couple of years ago, had a chicken burger and was amazed at the taste of chicken, the difference between here and over there.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 8:17:35 GMT
The problem with chlorinated chicken isn't the chlorine, it's the use of chlorine as a substitute for proper animal sanitation standards.
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Post by yeokel on Jul 9, 2019 8:19:44 GMT
You can eat as many chocolate chip cookies as you like in one sitting washed down with ice cold milk, not sure if it counts as part of your five a day but very nice. 🍪🥛 I've mentioned on this site before, that I nearly always take an orange flavoured Kit Kat to football as my half time snack. And I always count it as one of my five-a-day
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 8:23:17 GMT
A lot of hysteria surrounding chlorinated chicken , the facts are that American chickens have a very very small salmonella infection rate compared to the unclorinated UK ones . At least the yanks have tried to resolve the problem . Salmonella food poisoning is nasty to say the least . US Salmonella food poisoning rates are tradtionally higher than UK, though UK has higher rates of campylobacter infections.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2019 8:25:35 GMT
The problem with chlorinated chicken isn't the chlorine, it's the use of chlorine as a substitute for proper animal sanitation standards. In a way that's what I was getting at in my OP....if you look at the Facebook link, its never right to farm fish in that way... asking to breed disease. Eggs / salmonella/ Edwina. I've heard that lettuces are sprayed 30 times during their life. Everything has to seem clean , uniform and perfect. Carrots. It seems that the mass production of food isn't really very good. Has anyone got an insight into the food processing industry? What actually goes into sausages? There is one type of cider, so I'm told that" hasn't seen an apple" but is full of flavourings. At the very least I'd like to see better, more detailed labelling
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jul 9, 2019 8:31:27 GMT
That fish farm is pretty ropey.
If us using imported, chlorinated chicken means we consume less then it's probably not a bad thing.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 8:34:51 GMT
The problem with chlorinated chicken isn't the chlorine, it's the use of chlorine as a substitute for proper animal sanitation standards. In a way that's what I was getting at in my OP....if you look at the Facebook link, its never right to farm fish in that way... asking to breed disease. Eggs / salmonella/ Edwina. I've heard that lettuces are sprayed 39 times during their life. Everything has to seem clean , uniform and perfect. Carrots. It seems that the mass production of food isn't really very good. Has anyone got an insight into the food processing industry? What actually goes into sausages? There is one type of cider, do im told that" hasn't seen an apple" but is full of flavourings. At the very least id like to see better more detailed labelling This is what makes my arse laugh when people criticise the introduction of GM crops and such like. A lot of the practices currently in use are practically ancient, unsafe and done to save money. GM gets demonised because it's poorly explained and poorly represented in the media when in reality a lot of the time GM would help to bypass the said practices by changing certain characteristics. A crop that has been genetically modified (very safely and thoroughly tested) to be pest resistant is 100 times better than one sprayed with something that is then incredibly hard to remove when it comes to harvest time. I don't work in food security, but my institution has a lot of food scientists who generally lament the entire food production chain as it currently exists. This is before we even talk about antibiotic usage....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2019 8:38:39 GMT
In a way that's what I was getting at in my OP....if you look at the Facebook link, its never right to farm fish in that way... asking to breed disease. Eggs / salmonella/ Edwina. I've heard that lettuces are sprayed 39 times during their life. Everything has to seem clean , uniform and perfect. Carrots. It seems that the mass production of food isn't really very good. Has anyone got an insight into the food processing industry? What actually goes into sausages? There is one type of cider, do im told that" hasn't seen an apple" but is full of flavourings. At the very least id like to see better more detailed labelling This is what makes my arse laugh when people criticise the introduction of GM crops and such like. A lot of the practices currently in use are practically ancient, unsafe and done to save money. GM gets demonised because it's poorly explained and poorly represented in the media when in reality a lot of the time GM would help to bypass the said practices by changing certain characteristics. A crop that has been genetically modified (very safely and thoroughly tested) to be pest resistant is 100 times better than one sprayed with something that is then incredibly hard to remove when it comes to harvest time. I don't work in food security, but my institution has a lot of food scientists who generally lament the entire food production chain as it currently exists. This is before we even talk about antibiotic usage.... What do you know about antibiotic usage Estranged?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 8:52:15 GMT
This is what makes my arse laugh when people criticise the introduction of GM crops and such like. A lot of the practices currently in use are practically ancient, unsafe and done to save money. GM gets demonised because it's poorly explained and poorly represented in the media when in reality a lot of the time GM would help to bypass the said practices by changing certain characteristics. A crop that has been genetically modified (very safely and thoroughly tested) to be pest resistant is 100 times better than one sprayed with something that is then incredibly hard to remove when it comes to harvest time. I don't work in food security, but my institution has a lot of food scientists who generally lament the entire food production chain as it currently exists. This is before we even talk about antibiotic usage.... What do you know about antibiotic usage Estranged? We completely messed up the opportunity presented to us by Florey and Chain (Fleming didn't do much with it after finding it) in 1945. Penicillin and antibiotics like most resource usage in the 20th century was used in vast excess of the actual demand. They were used as a catch all solution to a host of problems and handed out like sweets before people had the bright idea that at lower doses they would help to eliminate the spread of animal based bacterial diseases that were threatening a shaky food supply after WW2, leading to their addition to many common animal feeds. At low and prophylactic doses, and in the case of humans when a course of anti-biotics aren't completed or handed out when not needed what they effectively provide bacteria is an environmental pressure. A bacterium with a mutant DNA (in something called a plasmid, which is passed onto replicating bacteria) making it resistant to the antibiotic may only replicate a few times in a larger population of normal low risk-infection bacteria but if you then apply this pressure constantly to the bacterial population you will eliminate the population effectively "shielding" the resistance. This then gives way to a population of bacteria that are almost exclusively resistant to your drug. This effect is multiplied when used in such vast quantities as industrial farming, when used in this setting you're essentially creating a mass proving ground for resistant bacteria to emerge and inadvertently creating a potential crisis. It's exactly the same concept as superbugs in hospitals. Antibiotics were never meant to be exclusively prophylactic yet prophylactic drugs are in used in (I think this is right) 60-80% of the world's farms...it's absolute madness.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2019 8:58:08 GMT
What do you know about antibiotic usage Estranged? We completely messed up the opportunity presented to us by Florey and Chain (Fleming didn't do much with it after finding it) in 1945. Penicillin and antibiotics like most resource usage in the 20th century was used in vast excess of the actual demand. They were used as a catch all solution to a host of problems and handed out like sweets before people had the bright idea that at lower doses they would help to eliminate the spread of animal based bacterial diseases that were threatening a shaky food supply after WW2, leading to their addition to many common animal feeds. At low and prophylactic doses, and in the case of humans when a course of anti-biotics aren't completed or handed out when not needed what they effectively provide bacteria is an environmental pressure. A bacterium with a mutant DNA (in something called a plasmid, which is passed onto replicating bacteria) making it resistant to the antibiotic may only replicate a few times in a larger population of normal low risk-infection bacteria but if you then apply this pressure constantly to the bacterial population you will eliminate the population effectively "shielding" the resistance. This then gives way to a population of bacteria that are almost exclusively resistant to your drug. This effect is multiplied when used in such vast quantities as industrial farming, when used in this setting you're essentially creating a mass proving ground for resistant bacteria to emerge and inadvertently creating a potential crisis. It's exactly the same concept as superbugs in hospitals. Antibiotics were never meant to be exclusively prophylactic yet prophylactic drugs are in used in (I think this is right) 60-80% of the world's farms...it's absolute madness. Thanks . ( sometimes we are not very clever are we, even if we have a lot of knowledge)
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Post by eebygum on Jul 9, 2019 8:59:15 GMT
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Post by murphthesurf on Jul 9, 2019 9:57:07 GMT
Oh, well, that's buggered my reply up, BJ (well the very last bit has, anyway).....because reading all the way through it I was going to say to you 'Ask Mares - Mares knows EVERYTHING about healthy eating'. I wonder if any of our USA Stokies could tell us anything about their opinion on chlorinated chicken? Mind you, re. this chlorination business, I'm sure I've read somewhere in the past that the various bagged 'ready washed' salads sold in UK supermarkets have all been chlorinated as part of the washing......
Perhaps Harry can advise us? Actually, Bathy's quite a foodie, as well. See - spoiled for choice now...... wouldn’t surprise me murph. i wonder if that process has any effect on the nutrient content of the salad? Yep, here we are, Mares: Bagged salad leaves / chlorinated
They are. And then gas is pumped into the bag to keep them fresher longer. I Ggd 'Is bagged salad chlorinated?' and a load of links come up - I haven't spent any time on them but have just quickly extracted this one fairly randomly, in case anyone wants to have a look: www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/lettuce-and-chlorine/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 10:11:08 GMT
wouldn’t surprise me murph. i wonder if that process has any effect on the nutrient content of the salad? Yep, here we are, Mares: Bagged salad leaves / chlorinated
They are. And then gas is pumped into the bag to keep them fresher longer. I Ggd 'Is bagged salad chlorinated?' and a load of links come up - I haven't spent any time on them but have just quickly extracted this one fairly randomly, in case anyone wants to have a look: www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/lettuce-and-chlorine/
Cheers murph So they are selling you food with very little nutrients when you eat food to absorb nutrients 🙄 Stop the world I want to get off
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 10:24:02 GMT
I'm slightly torn about "animal welfare" when it comes to food production. I'm not advocating poor conditions but we do seem to be pricing ourselves out of cheaper food. I've eaten food all over the globe including the US and never been taken ill. The old cliche about food being poor and getting a bit of "bombay belly" or to be vulgar the shits is a thing of the past in most countries. I've never understood paying for "organic" overpriced type food, or meat products who have had a "good" life. If I'm being honest price is more often the first thing i look at and I don't care if my lamb chops were in a field of dreams or not. Do they grill nice and taste nice end of story, we pontificate about animals a bit too much cruel but honest they are food and I don't care if it was happy or sad when I'm munching on a chop bone.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 10:31:11 GMT
I'm slightly torn about "animal welfare" when it comes to food production. I'm not advocating poor conditions but we do seem to be pricing ourselves out of cheaper food. I've eaten food all over the globe including the US and never been taken ill. The old cliche about food being poor and getting a bit of "bombay belly" or to be vulgar the shits is a thing of the past in most countries. I've never understood paying for "organic" overpriced type food, or meat products who have had a "good" life. If I'm being honest price is more often the first thing i look at and I don't care if my lamb chops were in a field of dreams or not. Do they grill nice and taste nice end of story, we pontificate about animals a bit too much cruel but honest they are food and I don't care if it was happy or sad when I'm munching on a chop bone. It doesn't sound like you're torn at all. There's wider issues at play though, you would certainly mind if you have an untreatable bacterial infection.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 10:48:32 GMT
I'm slightly torn about "animal welfare" when it comes to food production. I'm not advocating poor conditions but we do seem to be pricing ourselves out of cheaper food. I've eaten food all over the globe including the US and never been taken ill. The old cliche about food being poor and getting a bit of "bombay belly" or to be vulgar the shits is a thing of the past in most countries. I've never understood paying for "organic" overpriced type food, or meat products who have had a "good" life. If I'm being honest price is more often the first thing i look at and I don't care if my lamb chops were in a field of dreams or not. Do they grill nice and taste nice end of story, we pontificate about animals a bit too much cruel but honest they are food and I don't care if it was happy or sad when I'm munching on a chop bone. It doesn't sound like you're torn at all. There's wider issues at play though, you would certainly mind if you have an untreatable bacterial infection. I am mate I want clean healthy animals that are looked after but I don't care if they don't have an ensuite or can hear bird's singing in the sunshine.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 11:02:52 GMT
It doesn't sound like you're torn at all. There's wider issues at play though, you would certainly mind if you have an untreatable bacterial infection. I am mate I want clean healthy animals that are looked after but I don't care if they don't have an ensuite or can hear bird's singing in the sunshine. The reason meat is this cheap is because of the economies of scale at play though, which come at direct cost to the animals' health and well being. There's no way a battery chicken can ever be clean or healthy because he's literally rubbing shoulders and shit with 3 of his mates either sides repeated across thousands of square feet. If they weren't all de-beaked they'd peck each others eyes out and more. Even if you take out the welfare point of comfort and animal safety this is an incredibly dirty environment that cannot be adequately sanitised. The conditions are breeding ground for diseases and such and many chickens actually die in the cages, which breeds more disease which spreads to the chicken either side. You can't have cheap meat without all of these factors being taken out of the equation, it simply doesn't work. To counter this, they use medicate feeds using antibiotics which as I've explained above is a fast track to a global pandemic. We are down to our last few drugs for some very nasty conditions already. Resistant bacteria from diseased chickens is already transmitting to their handlers. There's way more to it than just ensuring the animals are comfortable or have enrichment in their environment, there's an entirely pragmatic reason to buy from suppliers with better conditions even if it does cost a few quid extra.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 11:15:50 GMT
I am mate I want clean healthy animals that are looked after but I don't care if they don't have an ensuite or can hear bird's singing in the sunshine. The reason meat is this cheap is because of the economies of scale at play though, which come at direct cost to the animals' health and well being. There's no way a battery chicken can ever be clean or healthy because he's literally rubbing shoulders and shit with 3 of his mates either sides repeated across thousands of square feet. If they weren't all de-beaked they'd peck each others eyes out and more. Even if you take out the welfare point of comfort and animal safety this is an incredibly dirty environment that cannot be adequately sanitised. The conditions are breeding ground for diseases and such and many chickens actually die in the cages, which breeds more disease which spreads to the chicken either side. You can't have cheap meat without all of these factors being taken out of the equation, it simply doesn't work. To counter this, they use medicate feeds using antibiotics which as I've explained above is a fast track to a global pandemic. We are down to our last few drugs for some very nasty conditions already. Resistant bacteria from diseased chickens is already transmitting to their handlers. There's way more to it than just ensuring the animals are comfortable or have enrichment in their environment, there's an entirely pragmatic reason to buy from suppliers with better conditions even if it does cost a few quid extra. I not sure the picture you paint is the norm I think it's the exception. Like I say animals are "dirty" as long as they are cared for and dead animals disposed of rather than left to rot then that's ok for me. In a perfect world maybe it's possible but human poverty and hunger take priority over animal welfare.
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Post by musik on Jul 9, 2019 11:24:32 GMT
Crowded, just as in India.
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Post by musik on Jul 9, 2019 11:32:15 GMT
The reason meat is this cheap is because of the economies of scale at play though, which come at direct cost to the animals' health and well being. They use medicate feeds using antibiotics which as I've explained above is a fast track to a global pandemic. We are down to our last few drugs for some very nasty conditions already. Resistant bacteria from diseased chickens is already transmitting to their handlers. Definitely correct about the antibiotics. It's a real threat to mankind. Worse than wars in my opinion. Meat isn't cheap in Sweden any longer. I always buy swedish meat, if any. The more locally produced the better. I have a cousin who is a farmer within a small ecological food production. Man, those price tags are heavy! I'm more or less like Kate Winslet nowadays though ...
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2019 11:34:29 GMT
The reason meat is this cheap is because of the economies of scale at play though, which come at direct cost to the animals' health and well being. There's no way a battery chicken can ever be clean or healthy because he's literally rubbing shoulders and shit with 3 of his mates either sides repeated across thousands of square feet. If they weren't all de-beaked they'd peck each others eyes out and more. Even if you take out the welfare point of comfort and animal safety this is an incredibly dirty environment that cannot be adequately sanitised. The conditions are breeding ground for diseases and such and many chickens actually die in the cages, which breeds more disease which spreads to the chicken either side. You can't have cheap meat without all of these factors being taken out of the equation, it simply doesn't work. To counter this, they use medicate feeds using antibiotics which as I've explained above is a fast track to a global pandemic. We are down to our last few drugs for some very nasty conditions already. Resistant bacteria from diseased chickens is already transmitting to their handlers. There's way more to it than just ensuring the animals are comfortable or have enrichment in their environment, there's an entirely pragmatic reason to buy from suppliers with better conditions even if it does cost a few quid extra. I not sure the picture you paint is the norm I think it's the exception. Like I say animals are "dirty" as long as they are cared for and dead animals disposed of rather than left to rot then that's ok for me. In a perfect world maybe it's possible but human poverty and hunger take priority over animal welfare. It’s not the picture I’m painting, it’d the picture painted by the FDA, The CDC, The WHO, the FSA etc....80% of antibiotics sold in the US were directed to farming, not my estimate, the FDA’s actual figure. More than half are identical to those used to treat human diseases. Half of all poultry in 2011 in the US was contaminated with Staph aureus and half of that again was resistant to the 3 main antibiotic types....it’s not the exception honestly, read the reports by these bodies.
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Post by musik on Jul 9, 2019 11:49:07 GMT
It’s not the picture I’m painting, it’d the picture painted by the FDA, The CDC, The WHO, the FSA etc....80% of antibiotics sold in the US were directed to farming, not my estimate, the FDA’s actual figure. More than half are identical to those used to treat human diseases. Half of all poultry in 2011 in the US was contaminated with Staph aureus and half of that again was resistant to the 3 main antibiotic types....it’s not the exception honestly, read the reports by these bodies. Correct. It makes you wonder: if they have to put a lot of shit on the shit they want us to eat, should we even consider to eat the produced shit in the first place? I can't afford to always buy the most expensive meat here, so I've basically went for sliced cucumber and eco banana on my sandwich these days instead. Max 5-10% of the food I buy is factory made. All the rest I prepare myself, from the raw products. I have to, I have celiaki and a weird medicine metabolism. But my measured inflammation was about 0.00% yesterday when having my nose, mouth, vocal cords and ears checked at the specialist, and my asthma is gone also. Possibly a result of no gluten, less candy and not much of that factory made food for the last year or so.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 12:16:31 GMT
I not sure the picture you paint is the norm I think it's the exception. Like I say animals are "dirty" as long as they are cared for and dead animals disposed of rather than left to rot then that's ok for me. In a perfect world maybe it's possible but human poverty and hunger take priority over animal welfare. It’s not the picture I’m painting, it’d the picture painted by the FDA, The CDC, The WHO, the FSA etc....80% of antibiotics sold in the US were directed to farming, not my estimate, the FDA’s actual figure. More than half are identical to those used to treat human diseases. Half of all poultry in 2011 in the US was contaminated with Staph aureus and half of that again was resistant to the 3 main antibiotic types....it’s not the exception honestly, read the reports by these bodies. I'm not that bothered to be fair, it's not something that is high on my priority list. I go to the shop buy food and eat it I just think we make too much of this kind of thing. I'm not saying I'm right it's just my thoughts food is too expensive and part of that is welfare based. I don't know maybe I'm selfish but I don't care that much but I don't wish animals any undue harm.
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Moosehead
Youth Player
Posts: 307
Location: Nottingham
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Post by Moosehead on Jul 10, 2019 17:40:36 GMT
This is what makes my arse laugh when people criticise the introduction of GM crops and such like. A lot of the practices currently in use are practically ancient, unsafe and done to save money. GM gets demonised because it's poorly explained and poorly represented in the media when in reality a lot of the time GM would help to bypass the said practices by changing certain characteristics. A crop that has been genetically modified (very safely and thoroughly tested) to be pest resistant is 100 times better than one sprayed with something that is then incredibly hard to remove when it comes to harvest time. I don't work in food security, but my institution has a lot of food scientists who generally lament the entire food production chain as it currently exists. This is before we even talk about antibiotic usage.... I'm broadly onside GM in terms of making more disease/drought resistant strains of crop, but I've always been critical of the ownership of it. Is it right that Monsanto/Bayer essentially end up owning the rights to crops and holding farmers to ransom if they can't afford the next drought-resistant seed? From what I remember there has always been a murky corporate world surrounding it.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 10, 2019 17:45:00 GMT
You can eat as many chocolate chip cookies as you like in one sitting washed down with ice cold milk, not sure if it counts as part of your five a day but very nice. 🍪🥛 I've mentioned on this site before, that I nearly always take an orange flavoured Kit Kat to football as my half time snack. And I always count it as one of my five-a-day Well I had a lemon slice in gin then an orange slice in gin, then blueberries in gin then raspberries in gin then ginger and chillies in gin. I'm sorted for the week.
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