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Post by kelw on Jun 11, 2019 20:31:06 GMT
Not forgetting the wonderfully named club O'Higgins in the Chilean league Just down the road from me mate 😋 Yep, recognised the Avatar
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Post by Northy on Jun 11, 2019 20:34:15 GMT
Hang on, are you referring to the Barnes cross chance near the end ? Yes, that's the one I think
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 11, 2019 21:36:33 GMT
Hang on, are you referring to the Barnes cross chance near the end ? Yes, that's the one I think It was quite clearly brilliant/lucky last ditch defending from their full back.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 11, 2019 21:43:41 GMT
They were a good side defensively aswell, curiously with a centre back named Brown. Bobby should have started with Barnes or Waddle. Hodge and Trevor Steven were industrious but limited. As Barnes proved when he came on late in the game, we needed an outlet. Both Waddle and Barnes should have played. Steven was a quality player though. It would have been too cavalier to play both, especially in a game where we were always going to spend large periods of time without the ball. I watched the whole game recently and I was shocked by how bad the first half was in general (both sides), but also by how bad we were in possession. By all accounts the pitch was dreadful, but we were certainly crying out for someone with a bit of quality out wide. Finally, just before Maradona received the ball to go on his brilliant run for their second goal, Glen Hoddle was smashed with an atrocious tackle and no foul was given.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 11, 2019 21:45:06 GMT
Hang on, are you referring to the Barnes cross chance near the end ? Yes, that's the one I think That was just brilliant defending from Olarticochea. If Gary really said that he's being hard on himself.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 11, 2019 21:56:05 GMT
I think both teams were cautious. Maradona bossed the Semi v Belgium, despite that goal Argentina were the better side v England as you say but had it been ruled out, Maradona would have missed the semi if booked as had a yellow in the previous game for breaking the wall so would have had further consequences. I think was one of those games that England regretted their approach after the final whistle. On a slight side note, Argentina were expecting to wear their home kit v England but told it clashed, they actually bought the blue kit in a shop in Mexico and had to sew the badges on the day before. Maradona liked it and said they'd beat England wearing it. Interesting side story that, is that the reason why we had to wear those light blue shorts?Bobby was too cautious In his team selection for me. I went to see the new Diego Maradona film last week in Sheffield. It's definitely recommended, but out of the clips they show from the match include a really vicious elbow on Maradona by Terry Fenwick not long before (I think) the hand of God incident. It would have been instant red card these days against Fenwick but he got away with it and made me wonder if that hadn't have happened whether Maradona would have done the handball. Who knows?...probably would have anyway but it definitely fired him up though and filled him with a sense of injustice.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 11, 2019 22:12:17 GMT
Interesting side story that, is that the reason why we had to wear those light blue shorts?Bobby was too cautious In his team selection for me. I went to see the new Diego Maradona film last week in Sheffield. It's definitely recommended, but out of the clips they show from the match include a really vicious elbow on Maradona by Terry Fenwick not long before (I think) the hand of God incident. It would have been instant red card these days against Fenwick but he got away with it and made me wonder if that hadn't have happened whether Maradona would have done the handball. Who knows?...probably would have anyway but it definitely fired him up though and filled him with a sense of injustice. Throughout his career Maradona was more sinned against than sinner. The treatment he got from Gentile was staggering. IMHO it was this game that led to the laws on violent play being hardened up. Maradona was a cheat, but cheating only gets noticed when the opposition does it.
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Post by lordb on Jun 12, 2019 6:19:28 GMT
Both Waddle and Barnes should have played. Steven was a quality player though. It would have been too cavalier to play both, especially in a game where we were always going to spend large periods of time without the ball. I watched the whole game recently and I was shocked by how bad the first half was in general (both sides), but also by how bad we were in possession. By all accounts the pitch was dreadful, but we were certainly crying out for someone with a bit of quality out wide. Finally, just before Maradona received the ball to go on his brilliant run for their second goal, Glen Hoddle was smashed with an atrocious tackle and no foul was given. Fair points
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 12, 2019 8:23:55 GMT
I went to see the new Diego Maradona film last week in Sheffield. It's definitely recommended, but out of the clips they show from the match include a really vicious elbow on Maradona by Terry Fenwick not long before (I think) the hand of God incident. It would have been instant red card these days against Fenwick but he got away with it and made me wonder if that hadn't have happened whether Maradona would have done the handball. Who knows?...probably would have anyway but it definitely fired him up though and filled him with a sense of injustice. Throughout his career Maradona was more sinned against than sinner. The treatment he got from Gentile was staggering. IMHO it was this game that led to the laws on violent play being hardened up. Maradona was a cheat, but cheating only gets noticed when the opposition does it. Maradona was treated brutally in both Spain at Barcelona (where he suffered a broken ankle from a horrible tackle by a Bilbao player) and Napoli where there was persistent fouling and off the ball nasty stuff too. There was very little protection in those days even abroad. Interestingly, he wasn't really a playactor or diver either. Watching footage of the film now, he skips over flying tackles with studs flying in time and time again even in the penalty area, there is no way that players these days would not go down.
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Post by kelw on Jun 12, 2019 11:29:38 GMT
Throughout his career Maradona was more sinned against than sinner. The treatment he got from Gentile was staggering. IMHO it was this game that led to the laws on violent play being hardened up. Maradona was a cheat, but cheating only gets noticed when the opposition does it. Maradona was treated brutally in both Spain at Barcelona (where he suffered a broken ankle from a horrible tackle by a Bilbao player) and Napoli where there was persistent fouling and off the ball nasty stuff too. There was very little protection in those days even abroad. Interestingly, he wasn't really a playactor or diver either. Watching footage of the film now, he skips over flying tackles with studs flying in time and time again even in the penalty area, there is no way that players these days would not go down. He got horrendous abuse and no protection. An absolute genius of a player. Sad that so many remember him for one incident when he did so many magical things.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 12, 2019 12:13:01 GMT
Maradona was treated brutally in both Spain at Barcelona (where he suffered a broken ankle from a horrible tackle by a Bilbao player) and Napoli where there was persistent fouling and off the ball nasty stuff too. There was very little protection in those days even abroad. Interestingly, he wasn't really a playactor or diver either. Watching footage of the film now, he skips over flying tackles with studs flying in time and time again even in the penalty area, there is no way that players these days would not go down. He got horrendous abuse and no protection. An absolute genius of a player. Sad that so many remember him for one incident when he did so many magical things. The real legacy for England was it was the start of that mindset where we get knocked out because of bad ref decisions or bad luck. Instead of facing reality.
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Post by kelw on Jun 12, 2019 12:17:31 GMT
He got horrendous abuse and no protection. An absolute genius of a player. Sad that so many remember him for one incident when he did so many magical things. The real legacy for England was it was the start of that mindset where we get knocked out because of bad ref decisions or bad luck. Instead of facing reality. There was an incident in 66 where Bobby Moore deliberately caught a through ball v Portugal to stop Eusebio equalising after already conceding a pen for handball. Today would be a straight red as blatant cheating, not even a yellow then. I'm sure Portuguese fans will remember that and see Bobby Moore at the time in a similar light. Doesn't mean either aren't great players
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 12, 2019 12:19:08 GMT
The real legacy for England was it was the start of that mindset where we get knocked out because of bad ref decisions or bad luck. Instead of facing reality. There was an incident in 66 where Bobby Moore deliberately caught a through ball v Portugal to stop Eusebio equalising after already conceding a pen for handball. Today would be a straight red as blatant cheating, not even a yellow then. I'm sure Portuguese fans will remember that and see Bobby Moore at the time in a similar light. Doesn't mean either aren't great players The pen was give away by Jack Charlton.
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Post by kelw on Jun 12, 2019 12:22:56 GMT
There was an incident in 66 where Bobby Moore deliberately caught a through ball v Portugal to stop Eusebio equalising after already conceding a pen for handball. Today would be a straight red as blatant cheating, not even a yellow then. I'm sure Portuguese fans will remember that and see Bobby Moore at the time in a similar light. Doesn't mean either aren't great players The pen was give away by Jack Charlton. The way I worded it- I meant England not Bobby re the pen. Was the more the handball incidents was highlighting in re to Maradona and what Moore did was no different that say Suarez v Ghana
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 12, 2019 12:24:15 GMT
The pen was give away by Jack Charlton. The way I worded it- I meant England not Bobby re the pen. Was the more the handball incidents was highlighting in re to Maradona and what Moore did was no different that say Suarez v Ghana Oh I see. Yeah fair point
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