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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 7, 2019 5:12:23 GMT
It was a garbage performance throwing away the progress of last year.
Southgate got it all wrong, trying to play out from back with no midfielders.
He can get away with it if Henderson and Winks are in there, but after those two there is nothing in midfield. At centre back, Stones again shows he's not good enough. And Kyle Walker yet again was a bomb scare.
The only positive is that if you put Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Winks, Henderson into that starting team then we are a lot better.
But again it shows this country has a major issue producing midfielders who can take and give the ball in tight areas.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2019 5:14:25 GMT
It was a garbage performance throwing away the progress of last year. Southgate got it all wrong, trying to play out from back with no midfielders. He can get away with it if Henderson and Winks are in there, but after those two there is nothing in midfield. At centre back, Stones again shows he's not good enough. And Kyle Walker yet again was a bomb scare. The only positive is that if you put Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Winks, Henderson into that starting team then we are a lot better. But again it shows this country has a major issue producing midfielders who can take and give the ball in tight areas. And it’s not really a skill I’d say Henderson has.
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Post by sportsman on Jun 7, 2019 5:15:53 GMT
Kyle Walker is finished for England. He's been poor since all the world cup. Rashford who I really like is for me close to being finished at the top level if he's not careful. What the hell has happened to him for 12 months.
He needs toughen up that lad. I'd love see him get angry for once in his life. I think if you called his dad a twat and his mum a slag he'd just smile and nod. He's got all the ability, but completely the wrong mental attitude.
I dont get all the fuss about rice at the moment. Anonymous.
Barkley is average.
Delph. I'm not even going to type anymore on him.
We didn't deserve to win. Too many poor players tonight.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 7, 2019 5:18:32 GMT
It was a garbage performance throwing away the progress of last year. Southgate got it all wrong, trying to play out from back with no midfielders. He can get away with it if Henderson and Winks are in there, but after those two there is nothing in midfield. At centre back, Stones again shows he's not good enough. And Kyle Walker yet again was a bomb scare. The only positive is that if you put Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Winks, Henderson into that starting team then we are a lot better. But again it shows this country has a major issue producing midfielders who can take and give the ball in tight areas. And it’s not really a skill I’d say Henderson has. No, it's a damning indictment on how we run our game, and the players we are producing, that Henderson coming on massively lifted the quality in our midfield. I can't understand why we've produced a glut of good attacking players who play off a striker, but only 1 out and out striker, one decent centre back in gomez, fuck all in midfield.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2019 5:18:42 GMT
Kyle Walker is finished for England. He's been poor since all the world cup. Rashford who I really like is for me close to being finished at the top level if he's not careful. What the hell has happened to him for 12 months. He needs toughen up that lad. I'd love see him get angry for once in his life. I think if you called his dad a twat and his mum a slag he'd just smile and nod. He's got all the ability, but completely the wrong mental attitude. I dont get all the fuss about rice at the moment. Anonymous. Barkley is average. Delph. I'm not even going to type anymore on him. We didn't deserve to win. Too many poor players tonight. Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up?
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Post by sportsman on Jun 7, 2019 5:29:30 GMT
Kyle Walker is finished for England. He's been poor since all the world cup. Rashford who I really like is for me close to being finished at the top level if he's not careful. What the hell has happened to him for 12 months. He needs toughen up that lad. I'd love see him get angry for once in his life. I think if you called his dad a twat and his mum a slag he'd just smile and nod. He's got all the ability, but completely the wrong mental attitude. I dont get all the fuss about rice at the moment. Anonymous. Barkley is average. Delph. I'm not even going to type anymore on him. We didn't deserve to win. Too many poor players tonight. Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up? I thought he was anonymous. He's gone from being a quick pacey, direct forward with all the tricks and ability for club and country, to someone who when given the chance one on one decides to turn back as he did every time he received the ball last night. If he doesn't start well for man United next season he could find himself at someone like Everton within 12 months, which would be a shame for him. He needs a rocket up his arse.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2019 5:31:20 GMT
Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up? I thought he was anonymous. He's gone from being a quick pacey, direct forward with all the tricks and ability for club and country, to someone who when given the chance one on one decides to turn back as he did every time he received the ball last night. If he doesn't start well for man United next season he could find himself at someone like Everton within 12 months, which would be a shame for him. He needs a rocket up his arse. We barely had the ball to create a chance for him? And barring the Lingard goal, his moment for the penalty was the most threatening thing we did.
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Post by barrythe on Jun 7, 2019 5:35:16 GMT
I didn't see the game but I know that ShawX would have done better and Butland saved everything... 🤣😂
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 7, 2019 5:37:50 GMT
Kyle Walker is finished for England. He's been poor since all the world cup. Rashford who I really like is for me close to being finished at the top level if he's not careful. What the hell has happened to him for 12 months. He needs toughen up that lad. I'd love see him get angry for once in his life. I think if you called his dad a twat and his mum a slag he'd just smile and nod. He's got all the ability, but completely the wrong mental attitude. I dont get all the fuss about rice at the moment. Anonymous. Barkley is average. Delph. I'm not even going to type anymore on him. We didn't deserve to win. Too many poor players tonight. Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up? I think Kane is a tidy player - but was anonymous last night. Just went around committing foul after foul. I guess, in his defence, he clearly ain't fit. And a striker rarely performs well if everything behind him is fucked. He needs some service. If Rashford was our best player last night - and maybe he was - that's a massive incitement on the team as a whole. Because he wasn't much cop other than winning and then scoring the penalty (in some style it must be said.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2019 5:41:31 GMT
Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up? I think Kane is a tidy player - but was anonymous last night. Just went around committing foul after foul. I guess, in his defence, he clearly ain't fit. And a striker rarely performs well if everything behind him is fucked. He needs some service. If Rashford was our best player last night - and maybe he was - that's a massive incitement on the team as a whole. Because he wasn't much cop other than winning and then scoring the penalty (in some style it must be said. Oh we were awful but I thought he tried to do things but it was never going to work because we never had the ball. Kane shouldn’t have come on imo. As you say he’s clearly not fit. Rest him for proper games. He’s had a lot of injuries recently and needs a proper summer off.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 7, 2019 5:43:29 GMT
I think Kane is a tidy player - but was anonymous last night. Just went around committing foul after foul. I guess, in his defence, he clearly ain't fit. And a striker rarely performs well if everything behind him is fucked. He needs some service. If Rashford was our best player last night - and maybe he was - that's a massive incitement on the team as a whole. Because he wasn't much cop other than winning and then scoring the penalty (in some style it must be said. Oh we were awful but I thought he tried to do things but it was never going to work because we never had the ball. Kane shouldn’t have come on imo. As you say he’s clearly not fit. Rest him for proper games. He’s had a lot of injuries recently and needs a proper summer off. Btw - welcome back fella!
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Post by sportsman on Jun 7, 2019 5:54:26 GMT
I thought he was anonymous. He's gone from being a quick pacey, direct forward with all the tricks and ability for club and country, to someone who when given the chance one on one decides to turn back as he did every time he received the ball last night. If he doesn't start well for man United next season he could find himself at someone like Everton within 12 months, which would be a shame for him. He needs a rocket up his arse. We barely had the ball to create a chance for him? And barring the Lingard goal, his moment for the penalty was the most threatening thing we did. Which is why I said it has to be one of the worst midfields we have ever fielded in terms of effort and ability. The panel made a good point afterwards. Maddison and foden.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 7, 2019 6:06:54 GMT
Rashford was about our best player last night and showed Kane up? I think Kane is a tidy player - but was anonymous last night. Just went around committing foul after foul. I guess, in his defence, he clearly ain't fit. And a striker rarely performs well if everything behind him is fucked. He needs some service. If Rashford was our best player last night - and maybe he was - that's a massive incitement on the team as a whole. Because he wasn't much cop other than winning and then scoring the penalty (in some style it must be said. Fools learn from their mistakes. Wise people learn from other people's. Southo didn't learn from Pochettino's Kane mistake on Satdee.
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Post by fca47 on Jun 7, 2019 6:16:18 GMT
As in the World Cup, as soon as they come up against any half decent side they are found wanting. I'm afraid Southgate is tactically inept. Holland as a side are very mediocre but looked much more organised than us.
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Post by adi on Jun 7, 2019 6:32:03 GMT
He's always had a fuck up in him but it keeps getting said and it keeps getting ignored, I don't get it. It’s just odd. Is it because there’s sod all else behind him? Maguire isn’t much better. Gomez is the only English CB who is actually ok. You don’t rate Maguire? 🤣
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Post by questionable on Jun 7, 2019 6:49:26 GMT
Totally forgot that this game was being played, absolutely pointless competition.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 7, 2019 7:08:56 GMT
Totally forgot that this game was being played, absolutely pointless competition. Disagree, it's added a lot more context to what was a series of very pointless friendlies. It's also given our young squad more experience of a knockout competition and final. It's been UEFA's best idea in a very very long time.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 7, 2019 7:13:11 GMT
As in the World Cup, as soon as they come up against any half decent side they are found wanting. I'm afraid Southgate is tactically inept. Holland as a side are very mediocre but looked much more organised than us. Up front maybe, but I don't think you can call a team with De ligt, Van Dijk, Van Beek, De Jong, Depay, Cillessen and Daley Blind in "mediocre" at all. They're a team massively on the up too, the vast majority are in their early 20s. Koeman is a far more astute manager than Southgate too and it definitely showed last night.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 7, 2019 7:17:10 GMT
Didn't deserve anything and the mistakes compounded what was a pretty poor performance. I'm not giving up on this England team yet mind, they've been in more Semi-Finals in the past 12 months of my life than the previous 24. There's some very good players coming through and Phil Foden under Pep could well develop into that midfielder who retains the ball and controls the game. Netherlands were well set up and executed very well indeed, but if Sancho scores his header they don't get back into it.
Extra time was a calamity, and they were very tired mistakes. Southgate has to work on his game management, and the team on their execution but as I say, young side and lots of development to come.
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Post by fca47 on Jun 7, 2019 8:32:57 GMT
The biggest problem was the midfield couldn't find space or hold onto the ball, which meant we were passing back to idiotic defenders who are full of mistakes, can't say I have seen Stones play a game where he didn't make calamitous mistakes. The rest of the defence was almost as bad. With England all you have to do is make the team play the ball back and you are guaranteed a gift.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 7, 2019 8:42:01 GMT
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jun 7, 2019 9:13:19 GMT
I think Foden needs to come in sooner rather than later, but his lack of game time at Citeh is a concern. I'd also like to see Grealish do well in the Premiership and force his way in. I think he's better than Barkley myself. You mention the Foden, Winks and Loftus Cheek triumvirate as an option, but they all need more games under their belt don't they? Winks has a bit more to do for me before I'm convinced. Alexander Arnold is now far and away the best right back so play him. Left back is a little flaky and Chilwell was a bit ropey in defence at times but good going forward. Stones was wholly responsible for that third goal too and if you add his non-marking of De Ligt for the first, then it really was a complete masterclass in how not to be an international centre back. I'd even see how Mings progresses next season and Tomori, as something needs to change. These two have ability on the ball, pace and intelligence. Any squad with Michael Keane hovering round is a weak one. The whole side looked knackered to me. Where was the mercurial Sterling from this season? Kane is half fit and Sancho still finding his feet. I can excuse last night for a number of reasons, but if we don't learn from it we'll walk blindly into the next tournament.
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Post by stokieinaus on Jun 7, 2019 9:18:20 GMT
You lose the ball near your own penalty area, you are in trouble. Lose the ball near the opponents area and you have a chance. Never have understood this playing the ball around the back, it’s an error waiting to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 10:40:10 GMT
That certainly is a novelty: a diehard SCFC Danny Rose fan! Have you never watched him unravel whenever he played at the Brit? Not at all but there’s a distinction between judging the character of him and judging how he plays football. He’s a massive twat but he’s a very good left back. He looks very dynamic when he runs forward, true, but when it comes to defensive qualities, he's often the weak link at Spurs, and has often been dropped. But by all means, play him for England and watch the massive fallout when his direct opponent runs past him ad lib and scores a couple of goals, most games. Come to think of it, if Shaqiri plays rw instead of cam in the play off, he could be the first to change your mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 10:45:02 GMT
I think Kane is a tidy player - but was anonymous last night. Just went around committing foul after foul. I guess, in his defence, he clearly ain't fit. And a striker rarely performs well if everything behind him is fucked. He needs some service. If Rashford was our best player last night - and maybe he was - that's a massive incitement on the team as a whole. Because he wasn't much cop other than winning and then scoring the penalty (in some style it must be said. Oh we were awful but I thought he tried to do things but it was never going to work because we never had the ball. Kane shouldn’t have come on imo. As you say he’s clearly not fit. Rest him for proper games. He’s had a lot of injuries recently and needs a proper summer off. He's pretty injury prone and his habit of passing himself fit - and both his managers' acceptence of it - when he is nowhere near fit will come back to haunt him and his teams. I wouldn't be surprised if his career is over well before he's 30.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jun 7, 2019 10:55:43 GMT
It was a garbage performance throwing away the progress of last year. Southgate got it all wrong, trying to play out from back with no midfielders. He can get away with it if Henderson and Winks are in there, but after those two there is nothing in midfield. At centre back, Stones again shows he's not good enough. And Kyle Walker yet again was a bomb scare. The only positive is that if you put Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Winks, Henderson into that starting team then we are a lot better. But again it shows this country has a major issue producing midfielders who can take and give the ball in tight areas. I remember Bobby Charlton talking about his England career, and an England team mate of his(forget who) said "Their first touch is so much better than ours", after a defeat. It's been a problem for 50 or 60 years, and we still haven't cracked it.
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Post by biglad180 on Jun 7, 2019 11:22:11 GMT
It was a garbage performance throwing away the progress of last year. Southgate got it all wrong, trying to play out from back with no midfielders. He can get away with it if Henderson and Winks are in there, but after those two there is nothing in midfield. At centre back, Stones again shows he's not good enough. And Kyle Walker yet again was a bomb scare. The only positive is that if you put Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Winks, Henderson into that starting team then we are a lot better. But again it shows this country has a major issue producing midfielders who can take and give the ball in tight areas. I remember Bobby Charlton talking about his England career, and an England team mate of his(forget who) said "Their first touch is so much better than ours", after a defeat. It's been a problem for 50 or 60 years, and we still haven't cracked it.
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Post by thehoof on Jun 7, 2019 11:40:53 GMT
The midfield that England turn out on a regular basis all receive the ball with their back to the opposition and seem to have no idea as to whom is around them or more importantly what space they have to move into. Consequently their first idea is to pass the ball straight back to whoever is available. Compare this to othe teams where the midfield take the ball side on to the opposition and can either take the ball forward or if necessary lay it off. I lost count of the number of times Delph and Rice ( then Henderson) in 5 or 10 yards of space played the ball straight back in the direction it had come from) - the 3rd goal emphasised this; shit ball by Stones to a midfielder with his back to the opposition and an attempt to pass it straight back from where it came. When Shearer was struggling under Gullit, Robson came in and told him to play sideways to the ball not with your back continually to the opposition- that seemed to work. We have in James Maddison a player who could add that creativity to the national team.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 13:51:54 GMT
Let's face it chaps. Thankfully we aren't playing Portugal, who would have thrashed this lot. IMHO Holland should have won by four or five, if not more. That was a shambles last night, and proved again, that when we come up against a reasonable team when it matters we blow it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 14:11:17 GMT
Let's face it chaps. Thankfully we aren't playing Portugal, who would have thrashed this lot. IMHO Holland should have won by four or five, if not more. That was a shambles last night, and proved again, that when we come up against a reasonable team when it matters we blow it. I was at both games this week & Portugal were very fortunate to get through - Swiss had numerous chances to kill it off. Before the tournament I was of the opinion that the winner of England vs Holland would go on to win the lot, I think that’ll still be the case. Portugal are a little better than average, carried by Ronaldo and Bernardo Silva, Holland have the ability to cause them real problems. England had they set up correctly against Holland should’ve won that last night & would’ve been very likely to have beaten Portugal too, but Southgate got it completely wrong, blame lies with him despite the ridiculous individual errors.
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