|
Post by yeswilko on Jul 5, 2023 20:43:49 GMT
Funny to see you and Badger are still following those obvious Russian troll pages on Facebook duck. What a bizarre claim, but I expect nothing else from the biggest WUM on the board. Have a lie down and maybe you’ll drift off ready for a day of wiring shit in the morning👍🏻 You've admitted many times you only join in to wind up. You're opinions are non existent. You dont even have the cajones to say what you really believe, always hiding behind little triggers for other people. Total pussy.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 21:01:33 GMT
What a bizarre claim, but I expect nothing else from the biggest WUM on the board. Have a lie down and maybe you’ll drift off ready for a day of wiring shit in the morning👍🏻 You've admitted many times you only join in to wind up. You're opinions are non existent. You dont even have the cajones to say what you really believe, always hiding behind little triggers for other people. Total pussy. Awwwwwwwwwwww👜
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 21:01:45 GMT
The question asked was " do we want to be in the EU". It is possible to want to not be in. What happens after leaving is down to current goverments , including the EU. Whilst we were in the EU there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population....leave it to them. [ For example have a look at the CRITICISMS of the Common Agricultural Policy on this link, only Wikipedia, but all referenced..quite a list .designed to protect the French and landowners like Heseltine...NEVER popularly debated or raised in this country...but our MPs were in collusion with it en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_PolicyYour criticism is largely aimed at the current government ( and actually the EU...if it were JUST a trading block things could have been different BUT it clearly states itself it is about Political and Economic union...I don't want that. Anyway I must not get drawn in and allow you to say" I told you so" ad infinitum....but surely some party should advocate joining lock , stock and barrel at the next election....The Maastrict treaty/ political and economic union. Why not?....it is the answer to all our problems. You are comparing CAP while UK was in EU which to provide certainty are on a 7 year cycle. The latest CAP which began in 2021 is based on each Countries own Agricultural plans but meet the overall aims of EU Food Security and Standards and Environmental Protection The UK replacement ELMS doesn't meet either of these objectives according to President of NFU www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/post-cap-farming-policies-lack-scientific-rigour/248788.articleYou might ponder this equation in 2019 UK Farmers received £4.7Bn under CAP the ELMS annual Budget is £2.4Bn This suggests to me a clear Government Policy to de-emphasise UK Food Production and by extention Food Security which is referenced in the linked Article. This is further evidenced by the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand which Liz Truss was warned by her own officials would harm UK Farming www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/The Minister that negotiated these Trade Deals George Eustice, himself a farmer, when he stepped down as a Minister quickly confirmed that these Trade Deals are terrible for UK Farmers Be Careful For What You Wish For My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 5, 2023 21:10:16 GMT
Big Nige Farage - Fantastic bloke. Amazing to see him take the TV awards the other night to the dismay of the mainstream mob. Even in the age of cancel culture he still finds himself increasingly popular and successful. Get him back into frontline politics and provide some form of competition to the dismal, dull, depressing leadership of Sunak and Starmer. Funny to see you and Badger are still following those obvious Russian troll pages on Facebook duck. 🤗
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 5, 2023 21:13:21 GMT
You are comparing CAP while UK was in EU which to provide certainty are on a 7 year cycle. The latest CAP which began in 2021 is based on each Countries own Agricultural plans but meet the overall aims of EU Food Security and Standards and Environmental Protection The UK replacement ELMS doesn't meet either of these objectives according to President of NFU www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/post-cap-farming-policies-lack-scientific-rigour/248788.articleYou might ponder this equation in 2019 UK Farmers received £4.7Bn under CAP the ELMS annual Budget is £2.4Bn This suggests to me a clear Government Policy to de-emphasise UK Food Production and by extention Food Security which is referenced in the linked Article. This is further evidenced by the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand which Liz Truss was warned by her own officials would harm UK Farming www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/The Minister that negotiated these Trade Deals George Eustice, himself a farmer, when he stepped down as a Minister quickly confirmed that these Trade Deals are terrible for UK Farmers Be Careful For What You Wish For My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for Well said.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 21:20:19 GMT
What a bizarre claim, but I expect nothing else from the biggest WUM on the board. Have a lie down and maybe you’ll drift off ready for a day of wiring shit in the morning👍🏻 You've admitted many times you only join in to wind up. You're opinions are non existent. You dont even have the cajones to say what you really believe, always hiding behind little triggers for other people. Total pussy. I think you are totally misjudging the Badger. I believe he sincerely and deeply believes many things politically, but has his own unique lighthearted way of expressing them. I think he knows how to get things in perspective on a Football message board, grounded and with the human touch.
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Jul 5, 2023 21:31:23 GMT
You've admitted many times you only join in to wind up. You're opinions are non existent. You dont even have the cajones to say what you really believe, always hiding behind little triggers for other people. Total pussy. I think you are totally misjudging the Badger. I believe he sincerely and deeply believes many things politically, but has his own unique lighthearted way of expressing them. I think he knows how to get things in perspective on a Football message board, grounded and with the human touch. The odd winky face is so lighthearted after calling Albanians and eastern Europeans criminals isn't it? Or nurses and doctors lazy?.. 😉 yeah pisser! Politically he's up Farage's arse then pretends he's only joking... what's the point?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 21:36:37 GMT
I think you are totally misjudging the Badger. I believe he sincerely and deeply believes many things politically, but has his own unique lighthearted way of expressing them. I think he knows how to get things in perspective on a Football message board, grounded and with the human touch. The odd winky face is so lighthearted after calling Albanians and eastern Europeans criminals isn't it? Or nurses and doctors lazy?.. 😉 yeah pisser! Politically he's up Farage's arse then pretends he's only joking... what's the point? I bet you'd like him if you met him These messageboards do strange things to people. Don't let him get to you , have a lie down.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 21:39:24 GMT
I think you are totally misjudging the Badger. I believe he sincerely and deeply believes many things politically, but has his own unique lighthearted way of expressing them. I think he knows how to get things in perspective on a Football message board, grounded and with the human touch. The odd winky face is so lighthearted after calling Albanians and eastern Europeans criminals isn't it? Or nurses and doctors lazy?.. 😉 yeah pisser! Politically he's up Farage's arse then pretends he's only joking... what's the point? Be calm young man, soon you will find enlightenment in the confines of a forum which isnt football related. Only then will you find true zen. After all it’s clear from your input on here you have zero interest in the beautiful game. I challenge everyone to see Wilkos last post about Stoke City, let’s see the results😉
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 5, 2023 21:45:30 GMT
The odd winky face is so lighthearted after calling Albanians and eastern Europeans criminals isn't it? Or nurses and doctors lazy?.. 😉 yeah pisser! Politically he's up Farage's arse then pretends he's only joking... what's the point? Be calm young man, soon you will find enlightenment in the confines of a forum which isnt football related. Only then will you find true zen. After all it’s clear from your input on here you have zero interest in the beautiful game. I challenge everyone to see Wilkos last post about Stoke City, let’s see the results😉 Would you like a bedtime story with that overdue lie down mate? 🤣
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Jul 5, 2023 21:50:34 GMT
Be calm young man, soon you will find enlightenment in the confines of a forum which isnt football related. Only then will you find true zen. After all it’s clear from your input on here you have zero interest in the beautiful game. I challenge everyone to see Wilkos last post about Stoke City, let’s see the results😉 Would you like a bedtime story with that overdue lie down mate? 🤣 grooming
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 21:58:19 GMT
Be calm young man, soon you will find enlightenment in the confines of a forum which isnt football related. Only then will you find true zen. After all it’s clear from your input on here you have zero interest in the beautiful game. I challenge everyone to see Wilkos last post about Stoke City, let’s see the results😉 Would you like a bedtime story with that overdue lie down mate? 🤣 I don’t get it but I’ll laugh anyway, besides what’s the point of being angry all the time😉
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 21:58:59 GMT
Would you like a bedtime story with that overdue lie down mate? 🤣 grooming He’s always doing it, I should report him really😉
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Jul 5, 2023 22:00:57 GMT
He’s always doing it, I should report him really😉 It's not as if he's Tom Hardy on CBeebies or anything.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 5, 2023 22:41:16 GMT
You are comparing CAP while UK was in EU which to provide certainty are on a 7 year cycle. The latest CAP which began in 2021 is based on each Countries own Agricultural plans but meet the overall aims of EU Food Security and Standards and Environmental Protection The UK replacement ELMS doesn't meet either of these objectives according to President of NFU www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/post-cap-farming-policies-lack-scientific-rigour/248788.articleYou might ponder this equation in 2019 UK Farmers received £4.7Bn under CAP the ELMS annual Budget is £2.4Bn This suggests to me a clear Government Policy to de-emphasise UK Food Production and by extention Food Security which is referenced in the linked Article. This is further evidenced by the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand which Liz Truss was warned by her own officials would harm UK Farming www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/The Minister that negotiated these Trade Deals George Eustice, himself a farmer, when he stepped down as a Minister quickly confirmed that these Trade Deals are terrible for UK Farmers Be Careful For What You Wish For My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for With respect BigJohn your point was CAP was shit My point was its UK replacement ELMS is even shitier, but don't take my word for it Take the word of the President of the NFU or the Government Minister But your judgement of CAP is based on an outdated Model that no longer exists since the end of 2020 before UK even transitioned out of EU To reclarify my point CAP currently is based on each individual Countries own Agricultural Plan so if UK submitted its ELMS Plan it would have been accepted, it would still be shit, but UK Farmers would get at least twice as much as they will now. If the electorate didn't like the ELMS plan they could only blame their Elected MPs who approved it whether UK was within EU or not. It would not have been an imposed plan from EU "who know better" There would have been no level of EU to challenge other than UK Elected MPs That's the level of competence or otherwise your talking about. Your essentially describing and basing your arguments on a system of Governance within EU that simply doesn't exist
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 5, 2023 22:48:31 GMT
The odd winky face is so lighthearted after calling Albanians and eastern Europeans criminals isn't it? Or nurses and doctors lazy?.. 😉 yeah pisser! Politically he's up Farage's arse then pretends he's only joking... what's the point? Be calm young man, soon you will find enlightenment in the confines of a forum which isnt football related. Only then will you find true zen. After all it’s clear from your input on here you have zero interest in the beautiful game. I challenge everyone to see Wilkos last post about Stoke City, let’s see the results😉
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 22:52:34 GMT
My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for With respect BigJohn your point was CAP was shit My point was its UK replacement ELMS is even shitier, but don't take my word for it Take the word of the President of the NFU or the Government Minister But your judgement of CAP is based on an outdated Model that no longer exists since the end of 2020 before UK even transitioned out of EU To reclarify my point CAP currently is based on each individual Countries own Agricultural Plan so if UK submitted its ELMS Plan it would have been accepted, it would still be shit, but UK Farmers would get at least twice as much as they will now. If the electorate didn't like the ELMS plan they could only blame their Elected MPs who approved it whether UK was within EU or not. It would not have been an imposed plan from EU "who know better" There would have been no level of EU to challenge other than UK Elected MPs That's the level of competence or otherwise your talking about. Your essentially describing and basing your arguments on a system of Governance within EU that simply doesn't exist My point wasn't that CAP was shit. It was that it had received much criticism and this had not been debated whatsoever in the uk...and the Euro fanatics simply accept that because it is the EU it is better. My point is that I would prefer decisions about agriculture to be made locally and not at European level....too big , too cumbersome and suits dominant interested parties , particularly the French. I've already said that I'm not particularky happy with what our politicians are doing( I don't think the vast majority of us are of whatever persuasion ( the Left don't like Starmer but there is no where else to go) ).... but for me the answer is not to leave it to remote, anonymous EU unelected politicians ( Commisioners, a bit more , but not entirely, accurately )...it might be ok for you, but not for me.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 5, 2023 23:24:41 GMT
With respect BigJohn your point was CAP was shit My point was its UK replacement ELMS is even shitier, but don't take my word for it Take the word of the President of the NFU or the Government Minister But your judgement of CAP is based on an outdated Model that no longer exists since the end of 2020 before UK even transitioned out of EU To reclarify my point CAP currently is based on each individual Countries own Agricultural Plan so if UK submitted its ELMS Plan it would have been accepted, it would still be shit, but UK Farmers would get at least twice as much as they will now. If the electorate didn't like the ELMS plan they could only blame their Elected MPs who approved it whether UK was within EU or not. It would not have been an imposed plan from EU "who know better" There would have been no level of EU to challenge other than UK Elected MPs That's the level of competence or otherwise your talking about. Your essentially describing and basing your arguments on a system of Governance within EU that simply doesn't exist My point wasn't that CAP was shit. It was that it had receuved much criticism and this had not been debated whatsoever in the uk...and tge Euro fanatics simply accept that because it is the EU it is better. My point is that I would prefer dwcisions about agriculture to be made locally and not at European level....too big , too cumbersome and suits domjnant interested parties , particularly the French. I've already said that I'm not particularky happy with what our politicians are doing( I don't think the vast majority of us are of whatever persuasion ( the Left don't like Starmer but there is no where else to go) ).... but for me the answer is not to leave it to remote, anonymous EU unelected politicians ( Commisioners, a bit more , but not entirely, accurately )...it miggt be ok for you, but not for me. John I think there are both pros and cons to the EU and I don't know enough about brexit to give a good overall view on what's best. I think when you take covid and Ukraine into account too that it makes it more challenging to judge the impacts of brexit. However comparative to other countries since brexit, it does appear that we're worse off than we once were. To be honest I think on the whole most people aren't particularly loyal to the EU from a patriotic sense. What people want though is what's best for them and their families from a health, education, housing, economical point of view. And in the same sense I think most people aren't particularly patriotic to the uk either from the sense that people would rather live comfortably than be in poverty and worse off but having "freedom". Like I said I'm not really bothered about EU from a loyalty point of view. If being in the EU means I have a higher quality of life though, then that's what I want and the same goes for being out of the UK too. As of now it feels like there is very little positive news from brexit. The whole campaign about millions for the NHS, control of our laws, control of our borders just feels like a massive lie to me. Brexit is the flagship policy so to speak of this conservative government. When you look back in the history books their reign will.be defined as the brexit era. If brexit had brought the opportunities and better quality of life which was promised then the torys along with daily mail and Co. Would.be shouting it from the roof tops. But here we are how many years in and I don't even think we have a deal with the USA yet. And the deals we are celebrating are ones with countries like Paraguay or Rwanda; hardly big players on the international market. We did however I think strike a deal with Australlia which I think Liz Truss may have brokered? Or it was maybe New Zealand. But ther was a deal anyway in relation to either lamb or cows which fucks over our farmers. I agree that I'd rather have local people who live in this country to be creating the laws and making the decisions rather than a foreign entity who may not have our best interests at heart. But my problem is that I don't think the current crop of politicians in the uk have the best interests of the majoriry of the nation. And I'd argue that they care less based on their record since brexit. For me it's not about being right or wrong. I just want what's best for me and my family for the future. And I wish rather than politicians tiptoeing around the subject out of fear of being labeled one way or the other. That they'd just put on their big boy pants and be honest with the nation. Come out lay down the facts, hold your hands yo.and say you got it wrong if that's the case and say how you'll fix it. Sorry bit of a rant lol. Up the Nigel.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 5, 2023 23:41:40 GMT
With respect BigJohn your point was CAP was shit My point was its UK replacement ELMS is even shitier, but don't take my word for it Take the word of the President of the NFU or the Government Minister But your judgement of CAP is based on an outdated Model that no longer exists since the end of 2020 before UK even transitioned out of EU To reclarify my point CAP currently is based on each individual Countries own Agricultural Plan so if UK submitted its ELMS Plan it would have been accepted, it would still be shit, but UK Farmers would get at least twice as much as they will now. If the electorate didn't like the ELMS plan they could only blame their Elected MPs who approved it whether UK was within EU or not. It would not have been an imposed plan from EU "who know better" There would have been no level of EU to challenge other than UK Elected MPs That's the level of competence or otherwise your talking about. Your essentially describing and basing your arguments on a system of Governance within EU that simply doesn't exist My point wasn't that CAP was shit. It was that it had received much criticism and this had not been debated whatsoever in the uk...and the Euro fanatics simply accept that because it is the EU it is better. My point is that I would prefer decisions about agriculture to be made locally and not at European level....too big , too cumbersome and suits dominant interested parties , particularly the French. I've already said that I'm not particularky happy with what our politicians are doing( I don't think the vast majority of us are of whatever persuasion ( the Left don't like Starmer but there is no where else to go) ).... but for me the answer is not to leave it to remote, anonymous EU unelected politicians ( Commisioners, a bit more , but not entirely, accurately )...it might be ok for you, but not for me. I'll keep this very short so there is no ambiguity Decisions on CAP are not made in Brussels but by MPs You are arguing a case that doesn't exist
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 5, 2023 23:59:48 GMT
My point wasn't that CAP was shit. It was that it had receuved much criticism and this had not been debated whatsoever in the uk...and tge Euro fanatics simply accept that because it is the EU it is better. My point is that I would prefer dwcisions about agriculture to be made locally and not at European level....too big , too cumbersome and suits domjnant interested parties , particularly the French. I've already said that I'm not particularky happy with what our politicians are doing( I don't think the vast majority of us are of whatever persuasion ( the Left don't like Starmer but there is no where else to go) ).... but for me the answer is not to leave it to remote, anonymous EU unelected politicians ( Commisioners, a bit more , but not entirely, accurately )...it miggt be ok for you, but not for me. To be honest I think on the whole most people aren't particularly loyal to the EU from a patriotic sense. What people want though is what's best for them and their families from a health, education, housing, economical point of view. And in the same sense I think most people aren't particularly patriotic to the uk either from the sense that people would rather live comfortably than be in poverty and worse off but having "freedom". Like I said I'm not really bothered about EU from a loyalty point of view. If being in the EU means I have a higher quality of life though, then that's what I want and the same goes for being out of the UK too.
Nail on the head son, ball in the back of the net etc.
Most people just wanted things to get better for themselves and their families and that's what they were told a vote for Brexit would bring them.
'Sovereignty' means jack, if you're getting poorer.*
*Well apart from a handful of evangelical ideologues.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 6, 2023 6:26:47 GMT
More insults. You hate engaging with me so much you keep replying! No brexit benefits to speak of then? You are unhealthily obsessed with Brexit. This is a Nigel Farage thread. Brexit is what he exists for.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 6, 2023 6:29:13 GMT
You are comparing CAP while UK was in EU which to provide certainty are on a 7 year cycle. The latest CAP which began in 2021 is based on each Countries own Agricultural plans but meet the overall aims of EU Food Security and Standards and Environmental Protection The UK replacement ELMS doesn't meet either of these objectives according to President of NFU www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/post-cap-farming-policies-lack-scientific-rigour/248788.articleYou might ponder this equation in 2019 UK Farmers received £4.7Bn under CAP the ELMS annual Budget is £2.4Bn This suggests to me a clear Government Policy to de-emphasise UK Food Production and by extention Food Security which is referenced in the linked Article. This is further evidenced by the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand which Liz Truss was warned by her own officials would harm UK Farming www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/The Minister that negotiated these Trade Deals George Eustice, himself a farmer, when he stepped down as a Minister quickly confirmed that these Trade Deals are terrible for UK Farmers Be Careful For What You Wish For My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for Only because we aren’t in the EU. When we were in it we did have a say. More so our leaders than the public. But we also had no say in what has replaced CAP in this country. A handful of tory MPs have instead and farmers say it is worse than CAP.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 6, 2023 6:45:47 GMT
My point is ...the British public ( nor our elected MPs) don't have a real effective say in CAP. Be careful what you wish for works both ways....a bit of a cop out...." these EU politicians know best, as long as we don't know who they are and can't challenge them....leave it to them , they must be right because we aren't very good" You might be happy with that, alot of people aren't Be careful what you wish for Only because we aren’t in the EU. When we were in it we did have a say. More so our leaders than the public. But we also had no say in what has replaced CAP in this country. A handful of tory MPs have instead and farmers say it is worse than CAP. I didn't say had a " say"..I said it was remote, people didn"t know what it was, were unable ti infuence it ( your MEP was imptent,) and it wasn't discussed. And also , it was highly criticised designed to help the French.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 6, 2023 6:46:39 GMT
My point wasn't that CAP was shit. It was that it had received much criticism and this had not been debated whatsoever in the uk...and the Euro fanatics simply accept that because it is the EU it is better. My point is that I would prefer decisions about agriculture to be made locally and not at European level....too big , too cumbersome and suits dominant interested parties , particularly the French. I've already said that I'm not particularky happy with what our politicians are doing( I don't think the vast majority of us are of whatever persuasion ( the Left don't like Starmer but there is no where else to go) ).... but for me the answer is not to leave it to remote, anonymous EU unelected politicians ( Commisioners, a bit more , but not entirely, accurately )...it might be ok for you, but not for me. I'll keep this very short so there is no ambiguity Decisions on CAP are not made in Brussels but by MPs You are arguing a case that doesn't exist Not true But I'm not even saying that. I'm talking about the knowledge and debate of CAP by ordinary people....but if you want to link our MPs ( or even MEP s in other countries) to CAP it is a very confluted and in fact disillusionary to say they have influence. But as I said to Oggy I'll try to keep off this tgread/ rerunning the 2016 election. It SEEMS that a good number of people think the EU is perfect....because it isn't us/ the UK, because we don't really know how it works and and because it is remote from us....one issue of the country is that we tend to leave things to MPs ...the EU takes that a whole lot further....and we certsinly don't need 2 parliaments, Remote Courts of Justice , Commissions ( a concept alien to the uk) etc..the democratic process needs to be kept as simple as possible.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 6, 2023 6:51:28 GMT
To be honest I think on the whole most people aren't particularly loyal to the EU from a patriotic sense. What people want though is what's best for them and their families from a health, education, housing, economical point of view. And in the same sense I think most people aren't particularly patriotic to the uk either from the sense that people would rather live comfortably than be in poverty and worse off but having "freedom". Like I said I'm not really bothered about EU from a loyalty point of view. If being in the EU means I have a higher quality of life though, then that's what I want and the same goes for being out of the UK too.
Nail on the head son, ball in the back of the net etc.
Most people just wanted things to get better for themselves and their families and that's what they were told a vote for Brexit would bring them.
'Sovereignty' means jack, if you're getting poorer.*
*Well apart from a handful of evangelical ideologues.
Not exactly Paul. Consult VAR Goal disallowed. Followed by own goal. Many Scots would vote for independence, as would many Irish irrespective of trade/ borders/ going into the unknown etc, as, imho, would have many South Africans, Indians etc.Many of the strughkes in the world are about identity and freedom. And Independence for the Scots and Irish would ( probably) cause change seismic change
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 6, 2023 8:31:01 GMT
Only because we aren’t in the EU. When we were in it we did have a say. More so our leaders than the public. But we also had no say in what has replaced CAP in this country. A handful of tory MPs have instead and farmers say it is worse than CAP. I didn't say had a " say"..I said it was remote, people didn"t know what it was, were unable ti infuence it ( your MEP was imptent,) and it wasn't discussed. And also , it was highly criticised designed to help the French. And what we have now is remote, we weren’t able to influence and is significantly worse with around half the funding, as farmers have said. So we are all much worse off for it. All i am hearing from you is that because CAP involves foreigners, it is bad. Because our replacement doesn’t involve foreigners it is good. You don’t care that the thing replacing CAP is much worse.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 6, 2023 8:33:18 GMT
I'll keep this very short so there is no ambiguity Decisions on CAP are not made in Brussels but by MPs You are arguing a case that doesn't exist Not true But I'm not even saying that. I'm talking about the knowledge and debate of CAP by ordinary people....but if you want to link our MPs ( or even MEP s in other countries) to CAP it is a very confluted and in fact disillusionary to say they have influence. But as I said to Oggy I'll try to keep off this tgread/ rerunning the 2016 election. It SEEMS that a good number of people think the EU is perfect....because it isn't us/ the UK, because we don't really know how it works and and because it is remote from us....one issue of the country is that we tend to leave things to MPs ...the EU takes that a whole lot further....and we certsinly don't need 2 parliaments, Remote Courts of Justice , Commissions ( a concept alien to the uk) etc..the democratic process needs to be kept as simple as possible. Literally nobody has said the EU is perfect.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 6, 2023 8:35:24 GMT
Nail on the head son, ball in the back of the net etc.
Most people just wanted things to get better for themselves and their families and that's what they were told a vote for Brexit would bring them.
'Sovereignty' means jack, if you're getting poorer.*
*Well apart from a handful of evangelical ideologues.
Not exactly Paul. Consult VAR Goal disallowed. Followed by own goal. Many Scots would vote for independence, as would many Irish irrespective of trade/ borders/ going into the unknown etc, as, imho, would have many South Africans, Indians etc.Many of the strughkes in the world are about identity and freedom. And Independence for the Scots and Irish would ( probably) cause change seismic change Sticking by the sovereignty argument and waiting for the tangible benefits is a lot more palatable if you're comfortably retired with a decent pension rather than in your early 20's and making your way in the world though would you agree?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 6, 2023 8:41:14 GMT
Not true But I'm not even saying that. I'm talking about the knowledge and debate of CAP by ordinary people....but if you want to link our MPs ( or even MEP s in other countries) to CAP it is a very confluted and in fact disillusionary to say they have influence. But as I said to Oggy I'll try to keep off this tgread/ rerunning the 2016 election. It SEEMS that a good number of people think the EU is perfect....because it isn't us/ the UK, because we don't really know how it works and and because it is remote from us....one issue of the country is that we tend to leave things to MPs ...the EU takes that a whole lot further....and we certsinly don't need 2 parliaments, Remote Courts of Justice , Commissions ( a concept alien to the uk) etc..the democratic process needs to be kept as simple as possible. Literally nobody has said the EU is perfect. That's why I emphasised SEEMS
|
|
|
Post by elystokie on Jul 6, 2023 8:41:34 GMT
Not exactly Paul. Consult VAR Goal disallowed. Followed by own goal. Many Scots would vote for independence, as would many Irish irrespective of trade/ borders/ going into the unknown etc, as, imho, would have many South Africans, Indians etc.Many of the strughkes in the world are about identity and freedom. And Independence for the Scots and Irish would ( probably) cause change seismic change Sticking by the sovereignty argument and waiting for the tangible benefits is a lot more palatable if you're comfortably retired with a decent pension rather than in your early 20's and making your way in the world though would you agree? Not to mention probably having somewhere to live that's yours or will be at some point and not having to give half your income to someone else for that 'privilege'.
|
|