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Post by bloodtypered on May 16, 2019 8:11:46 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention to win the league
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Post by sheds1862 on May 16, 2019 8:18:35 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention for play offs, let alone win the league I presume you mean last August for Norwich ? When we won there in October they were out of the play offs on goal difference. We were 2 points behind. Norwich have been in contention from November onwards so i don't get what you mean . The lesson for Leeds is that it is a marathon not a sprint. Teams always come up on the blind side. Division 1 Sunderland could fail having been there all season. Division 2 Mansfield missed out last day having needed a point and were knocked out on pens in the play offs. Not really sure there are any lessons. It's football |
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Post by bhp on May 16, 2019 8:20:03 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention for play offs, let alone win the league I presume you mean last August for Norwich ? When we won there in October they were out of the play offs on goal difference. We were 2 points behind. Norwich have been in contention from November onwards so i don't get what you mean . The lesson for Leeds is that it is a marathon not a sprint. Teams always come up on the blind side. Division 1 Sunderland could fail having been there all season. Division 2 Mansfield missed out last day having needed a point and were knocked out on pens in the play offs. Not really sure there are any lessons. It's football Or what can be learned as they both finished mid table last season and both had very good seasons this time around |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on May 16, 2019 8:21:26 GMT
The lesson to learn is that if we'd appointed Bielsa last summer we would have been promoted. Imagine what he'd have achieved with 50 million to spend!!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 16, 2019 8:21:48 GMT
You could argue the lessons from Norwich are
1) Dump your CEO for a sporting director
2) Have a vision for where you want to go that everyone from the top down is buying into
3) Be patient with your manager when he's trying to rebuild a young team
4) Be open minded in the transfer market, play the moneyball game, and if you have an asset you know you won't keep, plan to replace them well in advance
5) Invest and believe in your academy
Leeds will be gutted but they've had a great season considering they weren't really expected to be up there. They haven't spent a huge amount and they have an exciting young team. Maybe there is something in the Bielsa-ball tiring the players out theory and he tends to be more about the journey than the destination.
I think broadly we'll try to emulate them to some degree in creating an energetic team that looks to play on the front foot. I also think the average age of the squad will come down despite the Vokes and (assumed) Gregory signings.
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Post by walrus on May 16, 2019 8:23:50 GMT
I think what scuppered Leeds more than anything was injuries to several first team players towards the end of the season. You can’t really legislate for that, it’s just shit luck.
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Post by bloodtypered on May 16, 2019 8:24:54 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention for play offs, let alone win the league I presume you mean last August for Norwich ? When we won there in October they were out of the play offs on goal difference. We were 2 points behind. Norwich have been in contention from November onwards so i don't get what you mean . The lesson for Leeds is that it is a marathon not a sprint. Teams always come up on the blind side. Division 1 Sunderland could fail having been there all season. Division 2 Mansfield missed out last day having needed a point and were knocked out on pens in the play offs. Not really sure there are any lessons. It's football True...ive changed the question |
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Post by mattador78 on May 16, 2019 8:27:18 GMT
I think what scuppered Leeds more than anything was injuries to several first team players towards the end of the season. You can’t really legislate for that, it’s just shit luck. Bamford cheating like a bastard didn’t help their play off chance either suppose you reap what you sow |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 16, 2019 8:28:20 GMT
I think what scuppered Leeds more than anything was injuries to several first team players towards the end of the season. You can’t really legislate for that, it’s just shit luck. Bamford cheating like a bastard didn’t help their play off chance either suppose you reap what you sow Although cheating like bastards doesn't seem to have done Derby any harm. Hopefully their comeuppance is in the post. |
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Post by skelman on May 16, 2019 8:51:51 GMT
Our squad is too old and too comfortable to challenge for the top!
Average age of squad is 28.4 years😬
Bojan 29 in Aug, Vokes 30 in Oct, Allen 29, Shawcross 32, Ince 28 in Jan, Clucas 29 in Sept, Diouf 32 in Dec, Federico 35 in Jan, Bruno 28 in Feb, Baath 29 in Sept, Bauer 28 in Jan, McLean 30
And now we’re looking to pay £15m to give Matt Ritchie, 30 in Sept, a comfortable twilight deal!!
COME ON JONES & STOKE - SORT THE PIZZA BOYS AND THIS SQUAD OUT !!!!!
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Post by leicspotter on May 16, 2019 9:02:44 GMT
Leeds' mistake was beating us...none of the promoted teams managed that...shame most of the others did  |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 16, 2019 9:09:23 GMT
Our squad is too old and too comfortable to challenge for the top! Average age of squad is 28.4 years😬 Bojan 29 in Aug, Vokes 30 in Oct, Allen 29, Shawcross 32, Ince 28 in Jan, Clucas 29 in Sept, Diouf 32 in Dec, Federico 35 in Jan, Bruno 28 in Feb, Baath 29 in Sept, Bauer 28 in Jan, McLean 30 And now we’re looking to pay £15m to give Matt Ritchie, 30 in Sept, a comfortable twilight deal!! COME ON JONES & STOKE - SORT THE PIZZA BOYS AND THIS SQUAD OUT !!!!! Bloody Nora grandpa you've been busy on Google this morning. |
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 16, 2019 9:10:23 GMT
You don't need to sign 'big name' players.
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Post by Davef on May 16, 2019 9:27:10 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention for play offs, let alone win the league I presume you mean last August for Norwich ? When we won there in October they were out of the play offs on goal difference. We were 2 points behind. Norwich have been in contention from November onwards so i don't get what you mean . The lesson for Leeds is that it is a marathon not a sprint. Teams always come up on the blind side. Division 1 Sunderland could fail having been there all season. Division 2 Mansfield missed out last day having needed a point and were knocked out on pens in the play offs. Not really sure there are any lessons. It's football Yes, a strange thread. Leeds and Norwich both finished on 60 points last season. The lesson is obviously not to write off any team next season, even the mighty Potters. |
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on May 16, 2019 9:28:06 GMT
The lesson to learn is that if we'd appointed Bielsa last summer we would have been promoted. Imagine what he'd have achieved with 50 million to spend!! His tenure at Stoke would've been shorter than his tenure was at Lazio! |
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Post by pez75 on May 16, 2019 9:32:07 GMT
You don't need to sign 'big name' players. Not in this league maybe, but they probably will in the next... |
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Post by nottsover60 on May 16, 2019 9:36:13 GMT
I think one of the things we should learn from the promoted clubs is utilising the loan market. I didn't realise how many loan players Norwich had - 8 I think it is on Transfermarkt. Derby, West Brom and Villa in particular had really top quality young loan players whereas we had Ashley Williams and Cuco Martina for half a season. Ironic as in the Championship under Pulis we were accused of using the loan system to our advantage as if it was cheating.
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Post by stillgame4it on May 16, 2019 9:44:38 GMT
Stop appointing shit managers?
(Not including NJ in this, IMO)
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Post by tony1234 on May 16, 2019 9:48:52 GMT
Or... what are the lessons from Norwich, Leeds, Newcastle, Fulham, Huddersfield, Villa, Derby, WBA, Brighton?
To compete at the top of the Championship: Not always, but usually of late.....
a) Bring into the club someone with knowledge of what it takes to create an elite performance culture at the top of the hierachy, from coaching, managerial or Op Director experience at a club in the top 4 or so of a top European league.
b) I still maintain you generally need to build a team with 4-5 goal scorers/creators - as they fluctuate in form. You need 3 players who will score and/or create 15 goals to emerge from the group. The Champs is often bagutelle where the extra bit of quality "up top" pays over a season
c) You need to use the loan system well and acquire a game changer in the group you acquire: someone who you probably wouldn't be able to otherwise afford who brings youth, energy, creativity, goals or chances.
d) The club need to have a togetherness about it, so it remains stable and level-headed in dips. Its an art more than a science to know when this strays into complacency. You need a manager with a decent EQ to keep Board, players & fans united.
e) It helps to do your business early and get most signings in by mid July. You probably need 10 signings to go from a mid table to a promotion team too.
To go the extra mile and get up:-
a) Togetherness, team cohesion, management experience
b) A little luck with injuries, suspensions etc not falling on key players at key times (Villa v WBA; Leeds vs Derby).
To go up and stay up
a) Changing the entire team & system doesn't work - however much you spend (Fulham, QPR). You need the team to go up to have within it a spine of 8 or so players who can cope at PL level
b) Realistic expectations of survival - and the ability to "bounce" from defeats or heavy defeats. Mental strength, resillience and discipline needed in the early 1-2 years, being prepared to play most games with 40% possession, on the back foot.
c) Early signings need to fit the DNA and system to execute the system better, rather than change it: upgrades in quality/pace/energy for the same position and style of play in general.
Football is too complex to have silver bullets, but looking back over recent years, they would be guidelines for putting more odds in my favour than against me.
Sheff U probably buck these trends a bit, but I see more teams than not now applying these sorts of approaches to get nearer the top.
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Post by kelw on May 16, 2019 9:53:34 GMT
The lesson to learn is that if we'd appointed Bielsa last summer we would have been promoted. Imagine what he'd have achieved with 50 million to spend!! Doesn't necessarily work like that. Often managers who survive on low budgets can blow big budgets with the best of them. Pukki was an after thought for Norwich after missing out on 2 targets, it happens. You can just get players who click when others don't, some quick to slate Gregory because of his age and fee but let's wait and see, dozens on here did the same when linked with Dallas last Summer. Wasn't impressed with Leeds or Derby when they came to our place but teams like Brentford played great stuff. We need to turn draws into wins as look as solid as most but didn't score the goals. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 9:55:04 GMT
Don't sign a mental goalkeeper.
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Post by onefatcopper on May 16, 2019 9:56:06 GMT
Wouldn’t it be a good time to swallow our pride and reach out to the larger clubs in our area ? We have recent transfer activity between ourselves and Liverpool & Man City, so why not try and make a closer relationship with them ? We have lost the tag of being just a Hoofball team, we have excellent training facilities, good coaches and now producing our own youngsters. So wouldn’t it be appealing for one of our Premier League giants to strike up a working relationship with us ?
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on May 16, 2019 10:02:43 GMT
Stop appointing shit managers? (Not including NJ in this, IMO) Remember when we appointed Paul Lambert? I think that day was my JFK moment. I still remember where I was and what I was doing. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 16, 2019 10:09:03 GMT
Leeds' mistake was beating us...none of the promoted teams managed that...shame most of the others did That's why the others didn't go up either!!!  There's a lesson to be learnt here for next season......anyone with serious promotion hopes, allow us to beat you!!!  |
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Post by The man from Utch on May 16, 2019 10:12:07 GMT
Leeds at the top most of the season...Norwich hardly looked in contention to win the league Out score your opponents and grind out results. |
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Post by chuckrocky on May 16, 2019 10:23:13 GMT
Norwich have a very good squad and a very good manager. It didn’t happen over night and their fans have had to be patient.
Leeds have an average squad and a world class manager who has squeezed every last ounce out of his side this season. As often happens with a Bielsa side, they ran out of steam on the home straight.
Not much to learn from Leeds but we find ourselves in a very similar position to what Norwich were in when Farke took over. It took time to get his ideas across and there were plenty of Norwich fans calling for his head only twelve months ago.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 16, 2019 10:26:07 GMT
Athleticism is absolutely key, something we have a severe lack of atm.
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Post by zerps on May 16, 2019 10:38:59 GMT
Lesson 1:- Don’t employ a bunch of fucking morons to make transfers on behalf of the club.
Can’t think of a 2.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 10:39:20 GMT
I've learnt dirty Leeds are the gift that keeps giving. Yet again fucked it up.  Happy Days GD |
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Post by StaffordPotter on May 16, 2019 10:42:47 GMT
We need to learn lessons from our own demise, not other teams.
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