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Post by stokie23 on Apr 15, 2019 18:03:42 GMT
Stoke fans will be the biggest hinderance in trying to get promotion. Rowett, Jones, The list will go on until people have patience Sorry but, in my personal opinion, this is absolute b*llocks. Blaming supporters for getting uptight after at least two years of on pitch drivel is ridiculous and has nothing to with patience. Exactly ! Fans criticising other fans is doing my head in! We all pay our money, we all have an opinion, we all want the team to do well. I didn’t boo, but I 100% accept and understand why some did. The players should be doing better. They are professionals, and paid crazy money - do your job!
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 15, 2019 18:14:17 GMT
Except play 4 centre backs which guaranteed a dire match, even though he champions fast attacking full backs. Then he resisted bringing on Verlinden until the 86th minute, even though we were crying out for some pace and attacking impetus. Then he singled out “fans favourite” Bojan for criticism, even though very few outfield players (if any) had a good game. So I would say he did and said plenty wrong. By the way, I want to see us playing the ball through midfield rather than hitting a target man, but that’s exactly what we ended up doing after Bojan went off! If he doesn’t want us hitting long balls to a target man, why did he bring in Vokes and not a clever, more mobile striker? I mean its hard to play fast attacking full backs when the two that we fo have are either suspended or only fit enough to make the bench(bauer). Verlinden should have come on sooner imo also but Jones will have his reasons for not doing so and i respect that. I mean, Bojan was hardly criticised tbh it was fairly tame and it was more of remark towards the boo’ing upon his substitution/ application of the players. If Bojan was doing everything that he wanted him too then he wouldn’t have been removed and that goes for every player. Vokes is a great signing - Get the right people around him in the summer and it will look like very good business. He offers us a platform to hold the ball up and you can have to “pacey” strikers up there but one of the two needs to drop in and keep hold of the ball so vokes therefore is an ideal signing for me. That's basically how I see it. I don't think we've yet seen Vokes fully match fit.
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Post by harrysburrow on Apr 15, 2019 18:37:12 GMT
Fucking hell. 'Don't understand this diamond thing gaffer, is it like curling, or bridge?
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Post by LankyPotter on Apr 15, 2019 19:17:18 GMT
Sorry but, in my personal opinion, this is absolute b*llocks. Blaming supporters for getting uptight after at least two years of on pitch drivel is ridiculous and has nothing to with patience. Exactly ! Fans criticising other fans is doing my head in! We all pay our money, we all have an opinion, we all want the team to do well. I didn’t boo, but I 100% accept and understand why some did. The players should be doing better. They are professionals, and paid crazy money - do your job! I know you said that you don’t boo but my point on the booing is that it clearly has a negative effect on the team directly and therefore the club. Its not offering anything positive, so why cause detriment to the team you are there to support? Thats where I don’t understand it and the fact that they are on good money (through no fault of their own) doesn’t justify it, whilst showing your disapproval by booing is pretty shite support imo.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2019 19:30:29 GMT
Exactly ! Fans criticising other fans is doing my head in! We all pay our money, we all have an opinion, we all want the team to do well. I didn’t boo, but I 100% accept and understand why some did. The players should be doing better. They are professionals, and paid crazy money - do your job! I know you said that you don’t boo but my point on the booing is that it clearly has a negative effect on the team directly and therefore the club. Its not offering anything positive, so why cause detriment to the team you are there to support? Thats where I don’t understand it and the fact that they are on good money (through no fault of their own) doesn’t justify it, whilst showing your disapproval by booing is pretty shite support imo. The club, the players and the management should be big enough to take it. If they can't then they are in the wrong profession. Simple as. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances. I think Stoke fans (at games) have been extremely patient and supportive despite the crap they have had to endure in recent times. It's not like the players are doing it on a voluntary basis. They get paid loads and the fans are paying out of their pockets, lets get some perspective here. Pressure is part of being a pro sportsman. A bit of criticism should make them want to go away work harder and work out how they should be doing better. That's what they are paid to do and that is the correct response. If they can't do that then should look at playing at a lower level with less expectation.
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Post by stokienorthants on Apr 15, 2019 19:35:28 GMT
I hope Scholes and Cartwright will also be behind Nathan when they’re all standing together in the dole queue.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Apr 15, 2019 19:36:00 GMT
Stoke fans will be the biggest hinderance in trying to get promotion. Rowett, Jones, The list will go on until people have patience Sorry but, in my personal opinion, this is absolute b*llocks. Blaming supporters for getting uptight after at least two years of on pitch drivel is ridiculous and has nothing to with patience. Patience for the new manager to sort it out. I don't think anyone would argue it has been shit for too long but Jones can only play with the cards he has been dealt and its going to take a few windows to get the squad into the shape he wants it. Losing patience with the manager will only drag us back to square one (again) as the new man will have different ideas. It took him 18 months at Luton to get to where he wanted to be with his squad. This squad is going to take some sorting out, it's a dogs dinner.
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Post by LankyPotter on Apr 15, 2019 19:42:14 GMT
I know you said that you don’t boo but my point on the booing is that it clearly has a negative effect on the team directly and therefore the club. Its not offering anything positive, so why cause detriment to the team you are there to support? Thats where I don’t understand it and the fact that they are on good money (through no fault of their own) doesn’t justify it, whilst showing your disapproval by booing is pretty shite support imo. The club, the players and the management should be big enough to take it. If they can't then they are in the wrong profession. Simple as. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances. I think Stoke fans (at games) have been extremely patient and supportive despite the turgid crap they have had to endure in recent times. It's not like the players are doing it on a voluntary basis. They get paid loads and the fans are paying out of their pockets, lets get some perspective here. Pressure is part of being a pro sportsman. A bit of criticism should make them want to go away work harder and work out how they should be doing better. That's what they are paid to do and that is the correct response. If they can't do that then should look at playing at a lower level with less expectation. Firstly the manager should certainly not be getting booed at this point in time! Secondly the players will certainly be big enough to handle criticism, they will have had to deal with it throughout there career but lets have it right being booed by your our supporters and I’ll use the word supporter loosely because it’s not supportive, is an unarticulated way of venting anger. Zero constructive or intelligent contribution. People on here talk about players not giving a toss about playing for stoke city but lets be fair if you went into work and were consistently boo’ed/ turned upon would leave you thinking and feeling a bit disinterested and you’d probably grow to give less and less of a fuck about the overall success of the business/ team - and earnings has no relevance in that argument.
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Post by johnnypotter on Apr 15, 2019 20:03:53 GMT
NJ has my support, 100%.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2019 21:07:38 GMT
The club, the players and the management should be big enough to take it. If they can't then they are in the wrong profession. Simple as. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances. I think Stoke fans (at games) have been extremely patient and supportive despite the turgid crap they have had to endure in recent times. It's not like the players are doing it on a voluntary basis. They get paid loads and the fans are paying out of their pockets, lets get some perspective here. Pressure is part of being a pro sportsman. A bit of criticism should make them want to go away work harder and work out how they should be doing better. That's what they are paid to do and that is the correct response. If they can't do that then should look at playing at a lower level with less expectation. Firstly the manager should certainly not be getting booed at this point in time! Secondly the players will certainly be big enough to handle criticism, they will have had to deal with it throughout there career but lets have it right being booed by your our supporters and I’ll use the word supporter loosely because it’s not supportive, is an unarticulated way of venting anger. Zero constructive or intelligent contribution. People on here talk about players not giving a toss about playing for stoke city but lets be fair if you went into work and were consistently boo’ed/ turned upon would leave you thinking and feeling a bit disinterested and you’d probably grow to give less and less of a fuck about the overall success of the business/ team - and earnings has no relevance in that argument. I take your point, but I totally disagree. What is wrong with fans venting anger? Ive seen my son play at lower level football where he's been booed one week and cheered the next, and he knows when he's been booed that he probably deserves it. Its very rare that you don't, and thats at a level where the player is on less than £100 a game. It doesn't make the player less motivated unless its totally unjustified. If it is justified, and it usually is, then it makes the player want to succeed even more. Fans don't like booing their own team. It's a very natural way for fans to vent their feelings and professionals should understand what its all about not cry about it like babies. Football is a game of emotions. Every player should understand this from Day 1. Referees don't say they are going to make less effort if they are booed. They are professionals as are players. They are not doing it for a favour! Stoke fans have not consistently turned upon their team anyway that is a great distortion of the reality. The team has enjoyed great support especially away on the back of some very poor performances.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 22:19:04 GMT
I'm not sure hes the right guy for the job but hes got to be backed by the board and support for a full season come August
Otherwise we may as well switch the lights off
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2019 23:05:14 GMT
I'm not sure hes the right guy for the job but hes got to be backed by the board and support for a full season come August Otherwise we may as well switch the lights off I 100% agree with that...but let's not criticise fans for getting frustrated at games when there is little sign of progress.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 15, 2019 23:43:43 GMT
I think pretty much everyone does support him. But the boos were a message to say that we’re not just going sit in the stands like muppets and take bad results and bad performances all because of some chest pumping action at the end of the game. We should be seeing far more improvements than we are by now and we’re not.Why, two players weren't going to suddenly sort it out, the majority of the squad don't care or aren't good enough it was always going to take a while.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 15, 2019 23:55:44 GMT
I'm not sure hes the right guy for the job but hes got to be backed by the board and support for a full season come August Otherwise we may as well switch the lights off I 100% agree with that...but let's not criticise fans for getting frustrated at games when there is little sign of progress. Frustration is fine but actively booing isn't showing patience especially given the injuries and suspensions we have and on the back of a decent run that did show some progression albeit only small. The performances were awful and some of the decisions were poor but I can't agree that its fair to start booing so soon.
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Post by uskstokie on Apr 16, 2019 0:48:35 GMT
Could not agree more mate we need to give Nath a chance. I think there is a core of players we can work with. Like Danny Batth, Ryan Shawcross, Tommy Edwards ETC. But he need to clear out the squad a bit.
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Post by houstonsteve on Apr 16, 2019 4:21:35 GMT
Joke appointment by a joke leadership/management structure that is proven at failure (the leadership/management that is). And we are reaping what we sowed that gloriously sunny day we appointed Lambert. Anyone who had a say in that decision should have been sacked long ago. Here are some of the comparisons.
Lambert>Rowett<Jones
Jones>Rowett>Lambert
Rowett>Jones>Lambert
Jones>Lambert>Rowett.... and so on......
Sadly - the facts are these.
Lambert - Proven joke appointment by record - relegated Stoke City Fc, and Ipswich. Now potentially managing at his competency and qualifications level.
Rowett - Proven failure by record - spent a shit load and got the club to the heady heights of 14th FFS. No record of any achievements (i.e. silverware or promotions) in English football. now getting paid to comment on EFL games.
His anointed self Jonesy - Also spent a fortune and has us as disheveled as ever. False prophet this one as I have said before.
Sack him now and get Potter in for gods sake. FFS.
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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 16, 2019 8:06:34 GMT
I think pretty much everyone does support him. But the boos were a message to say that we’re not just going sit in the stands like muppets and take bad results and bad performances all because of some chest pumping action at the end of the game. We should be seeing far more improvements than we are by now and we’re not.Why, two players weren't going to suddenly sort it out, the majority of the squad don't care or aren't good enough it was always going to take a while. We’ve not even stagnated since Rowett has gone, we’ve actually gone backwards in regards to results. 3 wins in 17 isn’t good enough for any manager. He’ll have the summer and rightly so. But everyone would have thought we’d of got a better return than that by now, considering we had 3 wins in nearly half the amount of games prior to Jones being appointed.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 16, 2019 8:43:49 GMT
Why, two players weren't going to suddenly sort it out, the majority of the squad don't care or aren't good enough it was always going to take a while. We’ve not even stagnated since Rowett has gone, we’ve actually gone backwards in regards to results. 3 wins in 17 isn’t good enough for any manager. He’ll have the summer and rightly so. But everyone would have thought we’d of got a better return than that by now, considering we had 3 wins in nearly half the amount of games prior to Jones being appointed. Why should we be doing better, its the same players bar two, its not as if we were getting unlucky before we just as poor then as we have been in the last two games, personally I didn't think it would be any better and was just hoping for small improvement and some of the youth getting a game, this season was a write of before Jones got here and the only real thing thats good to come out of it was that Jones has a clear idea of whats needed and he should, at least a better one then Rowett anyway.
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Post by Ryan_Shawjosh on Apr 16, 2019 8:46:24 GMT
It takes TIME to build a TEAM. Just saying There's no I in Time.
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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 16, 2019 8:58:28 GMT
We’ve not even stagnated since Rowett has gone, we’ve actually gone backwards in regards to results. 3 wins in 17 isn’t good enough for any manager. He’ll have the summer and rightly so. But everyone would have thought we’d of got a better return than that by now, considering we had 3 wins in nearly half the amount of games prior to Jones being appointed. Why should we be doing better, its the same players bar two, its not as if we were getting unlucky before we just as poor then as we have been in the last two games, personally I didn't think it would be any better and was just hoping for small improvement and some of the youth getting a game, this season was a write of before Jones got here and the only real thing thats good to come out of it was that Jones has a clear idea of whats needed and he should, at least a better one then Rowett anyway. Just because we have the same group of players doesn’t mean they can’t perform better. This was a team that was knocking on the door of the play offs before we played Birmingham on Boxing Day. It’s a poor excuse to just say ‘oh well we have the same players so the manager can’t do any better’ How many new signings did Solskjaer make? It’s a similar situation here. If this team plays to its full potential, we wouldn’t be bottom half championship. A good manager who can coach what he’s got in front of him will get the best out of his players. Jones hasn’t done that so far, because like I said, we’ve actually gone backwards since Rowett, in regards to results. He’s putting all his eggs in ‘we’ll do better next season’ and not really giving us much substance right now to believe that’s actually going be the case. We’re just dangling on his words at the moment.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 16, 2019 9:12:21 GMT
Why should we be doing better, its the same players bar two, its not as if we were getting unlucky before we just as poor then as we have been in the last two games, personally I didn't think it would be any better and was just hoping for small improvement and some of the youth getting a game, this season was a write of before Jones got here and the only real thing thats good to come out of it was that Jones has a clear idea of whats needed and he should, at least a better one then Rowett anyway. Just because we have the same group of players doesn’t mean they can’t perform better. This was a team that was knocking on the door of the play offs before we played Birmingham on Boxing Day. It’s a poor excuse to just say ‘oh well we have the same players so the manager can’t do any better’ How many new signings did Solskjaer make? It’s a similar situation here. If this team plays to its full potential, we wouldn’t be bottom half championship. A good manager who can coach what he’s got in front of him will get the best out of his players. Jones hasn’t done that so far, because like I said, we’ve actually gone backwards since Rowett, in regards to results. He’s putting all his eggs in ‘we’ll do better next season’ and not really giving us much substance right now to believe that’s actually going be the case. We’re just dangling on his words at the moment. Its completely different, Man U were a good squad being poorly managed, Jones tried to change things to how he wanted but soon realised he just hasn't got the players I don't think anyone would be doing any better with this lot apart from playing hoof ball and thats what we've been trying to get away from since Pulis.
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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 16, 2019 9:26:23 GMT
Just because we have the same group of players doesn’t mean they can’t perform better. This was a team that was knocking on the door of the play offs before we played Birmingham on Boxing Day. It’s a poor excuse to just say ‘oh well we have the same players so the manager can’t do any better’ How many new signings did Solskjaer make? It’s a similar situation here. If this team plays to its full potential, we wouldn’t be bottom half championship. A good manager who can coach what he’s got in front of him will get the best out of his players. Jones hasn’t done that so far, because like I said, we’ve actually gone backwards since Rowett, in regards to results. He’s putting all his eggs in ‘we’ll do better next season’ and not really giving us much substance right now to believe that’s actually going be the case. We’re just dangling on his words at the moment. Its completely different, Man U were a good squad being poorly managed, Jones tried to change things to how he wanted but soon realised he just hasn't got the players I don't think anyone would be doing any better with this lot apart from playing hoof ball and thats what we've been trying to get away from since Pulis. It’s not completely different at all, just on a smaller scale. Man united were an underachieving club where a new manager has come in and turned things around instantly. Stoke are an underachieving club where the new manager has come in and not been able to do that. He’s relying entirely on turning it around next season. I’m not Jones out at all. Far from it. But for me, 100% he should be doing better than 3 wins in 17.
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Post by thehoof on Apr 16, 2019 9:27:50 GMT
The club, the players and the management should be big enough to take it. If they can't then they are in the wrong profession. Simple as. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances. I think Stoke fans (at games) have been extremely patient and supportive despite the turgid crap they have had to endure in recent times. It's not like the players are doing it on a voluntary basis. They get paid loads and the fans are paying out of their pockets, lets get some perspective here. Pressure is part of being a pro sportsman. A bit of criticism should make them want to go away work harder and work out how they should be doing better. That's what they are paid to do and that is the correct response. If they can't do that then should look at playing at a lower level with less expectation. Firstly the manager should certainly not be getting booed at this point in time! Secondly the players will certainly be big enough to handle criticism, they will have had to deal with it throughout there career but lets have it right being booed by your our supporters and I’ll use the word supporter loosely because it’s not supportive, is an unarticulated way of venting anger. Zero constructive or intelligent contribution. People on here talk about players not giving a toss about playing for stoke city but lets be fair if you went into work and were consistently boo’ed/ turned upon would leave you thinking and feeling a bit disinterested and you’d probably grow to give less and less of a fuck about the overall success of the business/ team - and earnings has no relevance in that argument. If you performed in your job at the level this lot have performed, you are right, booing would not help. Instead you would have been sacked.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 16, 2019 10:33:34 GMT
Exactly ! Fans criticising other fans is doing my head in! We all pay our money, we all have an opinion, we all want the team to do well. I didn’t boo, but I 100% accept and understand why some did. The players should be doing better. They are professionals, and paid crazy money - do your job! I know you said that you don’t boo but my point on the booing is that it clearly has a negative effect on the team directly and therefore the club. Its not offering anything positive, so why cause detriment to the team you are there to support? Thats where I don’t understand it and the fact that they are on good money (through no fault of their own) doesn’t justify it, whilst showing your disapproval by booing is pretty shite support imo. It's complex I'd say whilst your obviously right when you point out that booing is counterproductive and has a negative effect it has to be said that the disconnect apparent in the modern game between the finances of the individuals playing it and those watching it causes a subsequent dissatisfaction in the crowd when the players are so ineffective in their chosen and highly paid jobs. There's no longer a feeling of 'we're all in it together' I'd say and the disappointment of our toothless relegation has left a lingering bad taste in the mouth around the players and the club management.
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Post by questionable on Apr 16, 2019 10:35:46 GMT
I’m sick to death hearing about this friggin diamond shape crock of shite, it’s almost as tedious as Brexit.
In a nut shell Jones is broadcasting his tactics for next season, so any opposition manager sets his team up accordingly, great start..
So after Jones thinks things need to change to out think the opposition team he reverts to what, something that his team aren’t comfortable with??, sorry but it’s a rather naive approach and an excuse to avoid the flack he justly deserves.
Which either way you look at it he’s taken Stoke backwards
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Post by ashleyscfc on Apr 16, 2019 11:47:15 GMT
Joke appointment by a joke leadership/management structure that is proven at failure (the leadership/management that is). And we are reaping what we sowed that gloriously sunny day we appointed Lambert. Anyone who had a say in that decision should have been sacked long ago. Here are some of the comparisons. Lambert>Rowett<Jones Jones>Rowett>Lambert Rowett>Jones>Lambert Jones>Lambert>Rowett.... and so on...... Sadly - the facts are these. Lambert - Proven joke appointment by record - relegated Stoke City Fc, and Ipswich. Now potentially managing at his competency and qualifications level. Rowett - Proven failure by record - spent a shit load and got the club to the heady heights of 14th FFS. No record of any achievements (i.e. silverware or promotions) in English football. now getting paid to comment on EFL games. His anointed self Jonesy - Also spent a fortune and has us as disheveled as ever. False prophet this one as I have said before. Sack him now and get Potter in for gods sake. FFS. This... Said it time after time we need proven winner and proven success. Which is why my choice pre Hughes was Moyes and later on Rogers if we could get him. Sad part is the family wont pay... Well look where thats got us.
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 16, 2019 12:57:05 GMT
Joke appointment by a joke leadership/management structure that is proven at failure (the leadership/management that is). And we are reaping what we sowed that gloriously sunny day we appointed Lambert. Anyone who had a say in that decision should have been sacked long ago. Here are some of the comparisons. Lambert>Rowett<Jones Jones>Rowett>Lambert Rowett>Jones>Lambert Jones>Lambert>Rowett.... and so on...... Sadly - the facts are these. Lambert - Proven joke appointment by record - relegated Stoke City Fc, and Ipswich. Now potentially managing at his competency and qualifications level. Rowett - Proven failure by record - spent a shit load and got the club to the heady heights of 14th FFS. No record of any achievements (i.e. silverware or promotions) in English football. now getting paid to comment on EFL games. His anointed self Jonesy - Also spent a fortune and has us as disheveled as ever. False prophet this one as I have said before. Sack him now and get Potter in for gods sake. FFS. Unfortunately those peculiar arrow things start too late. They should include Hughes who really started the decline. He went on at least two years too long by which time we had an unbalanced, lazy, unmotivated squad. Lambert was a panic appointment but Rowett came with championship experience and success at Birmingham and Derby (where he did at least as well as the media darling Frank Lampard). His problem was that he faced unrealistic expectations from the fans and reacted badly to their criticism. Jones comes as a manager who has successfully resurrected a failing club, just like he needs to do at Stoke. Several years of decline will not be sorted in a few months. He must be given time.
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Post by LankyPotter on Apr 16, 2019 13:04:42 GMT
Joke appointment by a joke leadership/management structure that is proven at failure (the leadership/management that is). And we are reaping what we sowed that gloriously sunny day we appointed Lambert. Anyone who had a say in that decision should have been sacked long ago. Here are some of the comparisons. Lambert>Rowett<Jones Jones>Rowett>Lambert Rowett>Jones>Lambert Jones>Lambert>Rowett.... and so on...... Sadly - the facts are these. Lambert - Proven joke appointment by record - relegated Stoke City Fc, and Ipswich. Now potentially managing at his competency and qualifications level. Rowett - Proven failure by record - spent a shit load and got the club to the heady heights of 14th FFS. No record of any achievements (i.e. silverware or promotions) in English football. now getting paid to comment on EFL games. His anointed self Jonesy - Also spent a fortune and has us as disheveled as ever. False prophet this one as I have said before. Sack him now and get Potter in for gods sake. FFS. This take on jones is a poor one.
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Post by Scrotnig on Apr 16, 2019 13:16:53 GMT
Expectations are way too high. Too many fans still think we are a successful premier league club, we are not.
Nathan’s focus should not be on gaining promotion because that isn’t happening for at least five years and realistically probably twenty plus like last time.
We had our time in the sun, we chose to throw it away and so joe it’s gone.
Nathan needs to focus on establishing us as a decent mid table Championship side that might occasionally scrape a throw at the play offs. Currently the real danger is that next season we anchor the table and go down to League One because that is highly likely with this terrible squad. Don’t give me talk of “mass clearouts” in the summer because it is not happening. From the first team we will be lucky to see three out and three in, so what we have now is largely what we will have next season. Except we will also have the likes of Imbula, Wimmer and Berahinogoals stinking the place out. Promotion? Don’t make me larf.
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