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Post by FrankButcher on Apr 15, 2019 6:33:24 GMT
😂 Me as well they wouldn't know what's hit them would they?? The pizza boys would be on borrowed time as well 😂 Really? They outlasted him, one played a major part in him going and they are still here. The myths around Toxic build up daily. Yes really, I think TP would point out how poor the recruitment has been over the past few years with those two incompetent clowns and would demand full control over signings if PC was to listen and act on it I think you'd at least see Cartwright get the boot and you'd probably see someone else come in to work with TP similar to how John Rudge operated under him.
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Post by bubbleblower on Apr 15, 2019 6:57:17 GMT
Sadly over 40 years as a Stokie means I will inevitably be drawn back. It was however a welcome distraction to go to a match in which I was not emotionally attached , treated to an enjoyable March day experience, which included WiFi, so I could keep tabs on our capitulation, and not have a 2 hour drive back juntering to myself ! And you love Lincolnshire sausage and Bulgarian pork sword 😜⛷
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 15, 2019 12:04:44 GMT
Really? They outlasted him, one played a major part in him going and they are still here. The myths around Toxic build up daily. Yes really, I think TP would point out how poor the recruitment has been over the past few years with those two incompetent clowns and would demand full control over signings if PC was to listen and act on it I think you'd at least see Cartwright get the boot and you'd probably see someone else come in to work with TP similar to how John Rudge operated under him. It doesn't need TP to point out how bad the recruitment is, anyone can see it! How has his recruitment gone at WBA and Boro? We need to move on from this bloke ffs.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 15, 2019 13:13:38 GMT
I visited Lincoln City yesterday, my local side these days, the starkest contrast between them and Stoke is the unity that runs through the football club. The directors sit with the fans to understand the fan experience they have fans on the board to understand the issues, the players, management, groundmans to the tea lady share a vision and direction. They are not scared to make tough decisive decisions, they sacked the club caterers mid season for poor performance and instead now let individual catering booths to local businesses, the variety and choice is incredible. They listen to the fans and involve them in all areas of the club, open training sessions, fanzone, singing zone, smart ticketing, temporary seating areas etc etc the list goes on, in short they are everything we are not, unified on and off the pitch. Until the club is unified from the top to the bottom we are making the managers job harder and harder, he can not rely on the 12th man come match day, so many little things annoy you during the match day experience that your ability to stay objective and support the team is eroded, contributing to the atmosphere we have had for the last 3 years. Clearly we need a re- focus , a direction that is shared not just through the club but with the fans as well, I am struggling to see any efforts from the club to even realise this is a problem! Just how do we move forward? Excellent post and question. I think we can look at the principles of successful organisations and apply them to Stoke and see the glaring chasms. Strategy - There is a clear focus on what its trying to do and be. When we got up, I think we had it. A DNA, way of playing, set of players who were bought in.... it all made sense. Culture/accountability - People are accountable for delivering their part. it is a clear part of the strategy. (There is no accountability for the football side it seems - the bumbling, failing imbecile who runs it would have been long gone). "Business model"/Tactics - In business parlance, they know how they make their money. In football - they know how to win games, they have routes to score goals. Leadership - People lead by example. You can be a leader at any level of the organisation. Its basically about owning issues and taking responsbility for solving them - and co-opting others to help. Teamwork - It follows from culture and leadership. People get behind the team ethos and see the whole as more important. Skills - There needs to be the right balance of expertise for all the key jobs. Once you've created an organisation that does this, it will not only be successful, but also be attractive (to fans, other players etc). Fans will also see the "whole" and have a tangible force to get behind. But when its dysfunctional, confused, ineffective, you are asking a massive amount for fans to "heal" the club from their support alone. Its a great, thought provoking post!. Regarding Culture - depending on the business theory you follow there are different steps that need to be climbed before you can get everyone behaving the same way. The common denominator in any culture is language and at the moment this is a major issue for me. The key message seems to be "yeah, we've made some mistakes and we're learning from them" without telling us what they're doing to change. And secondly the 2nd manager to talk about "Bojan, fans favourite". This is a contentious issue because it furthers the divides between the club and the fans. The club need to stop and think about what they want to do and how they're going to do it. It needs to be a common approach and everyone needs to be talking te same language- if the manager wants o create a unit then do that, don't hang individuals out to dry. If we wants players to be accountable then call them out individually and offer constructive criticism. Don't do a mixture of both when it suits - be consistent.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 15, 2019 13:44:14 GMT
In reply to the OP and in particular the title of the post. Perhaps its a question that the Supporters Council can pose directly to Tony Scholes.
The question could be split into two clear and distinctive areas requiring answers with timelines (in the public domain, plans that TS can be held accountable for - not body swerves)
1. On the field/recruitment etc. 2. The match day experience
Supporter unity requires witnessing/experiencing "tangible" improvement
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Post by thevoid on Apr 15, 2019 14:07:43 GMT
Typical Stoke mentality, pine for a manager whose best days are behind him just because he might stick the nut on someone.
Pulis is a busted flush.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 15, 2019 20:21:41 GMT
Typical Stoke mentality, pine for a manager whose best days are behind him just because he might stick the nut on someone. Pulis is a busted flush. Yeah, if we want someone who can stick the nut on someone we should go for a young up and coming manager like Joey Barton - that'd show these primadonas
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 15, 2019 20:26:48 GMT
I honestly don't think it's possible. It's a bit like Brexit - views are so entrenched and irreconcilable that permanant division is inevitable and there's no point hoping for unity when it simply doesn't exist. The best we can hope for on both counts is a mutual contempt that doesn't spill over into violence. Anything else is just ignoring the reality of the situation - we're a divided club in a divided nation. May as well accept it and crack on.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 15, 2019 20:47:11 GMT
I honestly don't think it's possible. It's a bit like Brexit - views are so entrenched and irreconcilable that permanant division is inevitable and there's no point hoping for unity when it simply doesn't exist. The best we can hope for on both counts is a mutual contempt that doesn't spill over into violence. Anything else is just ignoring the reality of the situation - we're a divided club in a divided nation. May as well accept it and crack on. It's possible if Jones or another manager who hasn't been here before or been around the managerial merry-go-round can turn us into a winning team playing decent football. Jones has turned Luton around and will turn us around given half a chance.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 16, 2019 17:31:55 GMT
I honestly don't think it's possible. It's a bit like Brexit - views are so entrenched and irreconcilable that permanant division is inevitable and there's no point hoping for unity when it simply doesn't exist. The best we can hope for on both counts is a mutual contempt that doesn't spill over into violence. Anything else is just ignoring the reality of the situation - we're a divided club in a divided nation. May as well accept it and crack on. It's possible if Jones or another manager who hasn't been here before or been around the managerial merry-go-round can turn us into a winning team playing decent football. Jones has turned Luton around and will turn us around given half a chance. I agree. I'm all for giving Jones a chance but to be fair it is a gamble that may or may not come off. If we do turn into a decent side more fans will get on board but it's already obvious some fans want rid and it's even more obvious that there is no consensus on a suitable replacement. We aren't a unified club and I genuinely don't think we ever will be - regardless of who is in charge and however well we do.
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