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Post by Gods on Apr 11, 2019 22:51:44 GMT
Someone help me with this one.
So jack the lad has struck on a winning formula. Pick up a slightly desperate girl on a Dating App, treat them to a £150 dinner and 2 bottles of wine in the Shard, take them for a spin on your speedboat on the Thames with a bottle of champagne and, hey presto, he's in their knickers faster than you can say 'westward ho'.
But one night it all goes wrong. You hand the controls to the young lady who is as drunk as you are, the boat hits something, flips and tragically while you are able to hold on the girl dies.
If you flip it around and say you join your mate on his speedboat. You similarly take over the controls and crash his boat. You are both able to swim to shore. He's going to tell you that you that first you nearly killed him and second you owe him a new speedboat isn't he and you're not going to argue too much about it?
I get that he won't win a chivalry award for his dating approach or indeed a bravery award for clearing off to Georgia in to the hands of a smoking hot lipstick lawyer in a tight pencil skirt but has he really killed her? I'm not convinced that he has.
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Post by Boothen on Apr 12, 2019 4:40:42 GMT
In this age of equality and women's rights I do find it amusing how quickly those ideals get thrown overboard (oh yeah, I went there) when there's an easy male scapegoat at hand. We can't be blaming the person who was actually responsible for the crash, and subsequently her own death, now can we?
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Post by mattador78 on Apr 12, 2019 6:10:08 GMT
Someone help me with this one. So jack the lad has struck on a winning formula. Pick up a slightly desperate girl on a Dating App, treat them to a £150 dinner and 2 bottles of wine in the Shard, take them for a spin on your speedboat on the Thames with a bottle of champagne and, hey presto, he's in their knickers faster than you can say 'westward ho'. But one night it all goes wrong. You hand the controls to the young lady who is as drunk as you are, the boat hits something, flips and tragically while you are able to hold on the girl dies. If you flip it around and say you join your mate on his speedboat. You similarly take over the controls and crash his boat. You are both able to swim to shore. He's going to tell you that you that first you nearly killed him and second you owe him a new speedboat isn't he and you're not going to argue too much about it? I get that he won't win a chivalry award for his dating approach or indeed a bravery award for clearing off to Georgia in to the hands of a smoking hot lipstick lawyer in a tight pencil skirt but has he really killed her? I'm not convinced that he has. Problem was he knew the speedboat wasn’t fit be on the water and he hadn’t done anything to fix it’s defects. That’s what the case was built upon that basically the boat was a death trap he knew but he still took people out on it and if it had been maintained and repair the chances of the accident happening would have been massively reduced |
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Post by Gods on Apr 12, 2019 6:44:37 GMT
Yes I guessed the case must rest somewhere in that technical arena. A good lawyer would jump all over that stuff.
I wonder though. Did it really crash for technical reasons or did 2 consenting adults, heavily intoxicated, without life jackets , travelling at maximum speed in the dead of night strike an object and a terrible accident happened.
I get that he's a cad and a coward and he won't win any popularity contests, I'm just not sure he's a killer.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Apr 12, 2019 9:12:48 GMT
Yes I guessed the case must rest somewhere in that technical arena. A good lawyer would jump all over that stuff. I wonder though. Did it really crash for technical reasons or did 2 consenting adults, heavily intoxicated, without life jackets , travelling at maximum speed in the dead of night strike an object and a terrible accident happened. I get that he's a cad and a coward and he won't win any popularity contests, I'm just not sure he's a killer. It was his boat and I assume he was trained to use it. If that assumption is correct then he would also know that although it's cool and he might get laid, handing over the controls to a drunk bird with was against the rules for good reason. Going back to your original point, if the friend had been male and the friend had died, the manslaughter outcome would have been exactly the same. The only difference is that sex was involved and that's why we are talking about it. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 13, 2019 15:25:56 GMT
Are there any laws about being in control of a boat whilst pissed up?
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Post by mattyd on Apr 13, 2019 15:31:19 GMT
The girls sister said that he ( jack Sheppard) was in denial.
I thought to my self, yeah..but your sister was in de Thames.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 13, 2019 15:40:24 GMT
Are there any laws about being in control of a boat whilst pissed up? "The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit". More generally to Gods qu's. I don't know the full circumstances. I reckon he has a duty of care and he's reckless regarding her life. Poor lad has probably suffered enough and common sense might dictate that it may be 'not in the public interest' to prosecute him. Need to know a lot more about his efforts to avoid the accident, efforts to save her etc etc Grounds for manslaughter charge I'd say. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 13, 2019 15:51:20 GMT
Are there any laws about being in control of a boat whilst pissed up? "The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit". More generally to Gods qu's. I don't know the full circumstances. I reckon he has a duty of care and he's reckless regarding her life. Poor lad has probably suffered enough and common sense might dictate that it may be 'not in the public interest' to prosecute him. Need to know a lot more about his efforts to avoid the accident, efforts to save her etc etc Grounds for manslaughter charge I'd say. Does that apply to paddle boats as well? |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 13, 2019 16:05:03 GMT
"The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit". More generally to Gods qu's. I don't know the full circumstances. I reckon he has a duty of care and he's reckless regarding her life. Poor lad has probably suffered enough and common sense might dictate that it may be 'not in the public interest' to prosecute him. Need to know a lot more about his efforts to avoid the accident, efforts to save her etc etc Grounds for manslaughter charge I'd say. Does that apply to paddle boats as well? Pretty sure it applies to mechanically driven 'vehicles'. *I read it as Peddle Boat... would have to check the legal definition of 'mechanical' to see if oars fall within that definition. So if yr Flintoffing and they can catch you in a peddloe, you're nicked. I'd have to check the finer detail to see whether it applies to horses, ostriches, or indeed dolphins. As long as there's no mechanicals involved you'd be ok. Though I suspect once you're on a public highway there's a catch all. |
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Post by felonious on Apr 13, 2019 17:33:27 GMT
Are there any laws about being in control of a boat whilst pissed up? "The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit". More generally to Gods qu's. I don't know the full circumstances. I reckon he has a duty of care and he's reckless regarding her life. Poor lad has probably suffered enough and common sense might dictate that it may be 'not in the public interest' to prosecute him. Need to know a lot more about his efforts to avoid the accident, efforts to save her etc etc Grounds for manslaughter charge I'd say. I take it you're aware of this after getting stopped in your coracle in the cut after a session at the pub? |
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Post by felonious on Apr 13, 2019 18:20:23 GMT
Time for a musical interlude.
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Post by felonious on Apr 13, 2019 18:38:38 GMT
Does that apply to paddle boats as well? Pretty sure it applies to mechanically driven 'vehicles'. *I read it as Peddle Boat... would have to check the legal definition of 'mechanical' to see if oars fall within that definition. So if yr Flintoffing and they can catch you in a peddloe, you're nicked. I'd have to check the finer detail to see whether it applies to horses, ostriches, or indeed dolphins. As long as there's no mechanicals involved you'd be ok. Though I suspect once you're on a public highway there's a catch all. On the subject of being drunk in charge of a boat last year I was walking along the cut from Cheddleton Station to Consull Forge with an old timer. He knows the area back to front and all the local history so it was an entertaining 45 minutes. He's also a very upstanding citizen so imagine my surprise when he pointed out the site of an old Staffs CC campsite and then proceeded to tell me that the gang used to travel from the Potts for weekends camping, fishing and canoeing as 16 and 17 year olds and the evenings were spent getting pissed in The Black Lion after which they canoed back in the dark well under the influence  |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 13, 2019 18:48:54 GMT
Pretty sure it applies to mechanically driven 'vehicles'. *I read it as Peddle Boat... would have to check the legal definition of 'mechanical' to see if oars fall within that definition. So if yr Flintoffing and they can catch you in a peddloe, you're nicked. I'd have to check the finer detail to see whether it applies to horses, ostriches, or indeed dolphins. As long as there's no mechanicals involved you'd be ok. Though I suspect once you're on a public highway there's a catch all. On the subject of being drunk in charge of a boat last year I was walking along the cut from Cheddleton Station to Consull Forge with an old timer. He knows the area back to front and all the local history so it was an entertaining 45 minutes. He's also a very upstanding citizen so imagine my surprise when he pointed out the site of an old Staffs CC campsite and then proceeded to tell me that the gang used to travel from the Potts for weekends camping, fishing and canoeing as 16 and 17 year olds and the evenings were spent getting pissed in The Black Lion after which they canoed back in the dark well under the influence Everyone's a pirate when they get on the cut. I had a very drunken kamikaze night cut run, when several folk took the tiller and there were multiple crashes. Two nine stone Rotties and a bloke in a wheelchair on board. Chaos, the craft was due a lift and refit, this was to be it's final fling. I've got a mate who took to a pony and trap for pub visits during a driving ban. I'm not sure whether that loophole has since been closed or he risked it anyway. |
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Post by felonious on Apr 13, 2019 19:04:47 GMT
On the subject of being drunk in charge of a boat last year I was walking along the cut from Cheddleton Station to Consull Forge with an old timer. He knows the area back to front and all the local history so it was an entertaining 45 minutes. He's also a very upstanding citizen so imagine my surprise when he pointed out the site of an old Staffs CC campsite and then proceeded to tell me that the gang used to travel from the Potts for weekends camping, fishing and canoeing as 16 and 17 year olds and the evenings were spent getting pissed in The Black Lion after which they canoed back in the dark well under the influence Everyone's a pirate when they get on the cut. I had a very drunken kamikaze night cut run, when several folk took the tiller and there were multiple crashes. Two nine stone Rotties and a bloke in a wheelchair on board. Chaos, the craft was due a lift and refit, this was to be it's final fling. I've got a mate who took to a pony and trap for pub visits during a driving ban. I'm not sure whether that loophole has since been closed or he risked it anyway. When I was at the uni in Stoke we did a project taking black and white photos of the industrial landscape from the cut through the Stoke/ Etruria basin. It all went pear shaped in that little pub on Shelton New Road just up from Twyfords and went into a 4/5 hour session. How the 12 of us ever got the barge back to base I'll never know. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 20:23:22 GMT
Where about's on the Thames did this happen? i'm sure there is a speed limit of about 12mph-14mph??
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 13, 2019 20:34:48 GMT
Everyone's a pirate when they get on the cut. I had a very drunken kamikaze night cut run, when several folk took the tiller and there were multiple crashes. Two nine stone Rotties and a bloke in a wheelchair on board. Chaos, the craft was due a lift and refit, this was to be it's final fling. I've got a mate who took to a pony and trap for pub visits during a driving ban. I'm not sure whether that loophole has since been closed or he risked it anyway. When I was at the uni in Stoke we did a project taking black and white photos of the industrial landscape from the cut through the Stoke/ Etruria basin. It all went pear shaped in that little pub on Shelton New Road just up from Twyfords and went into a 4/5 hour session. How the 12 of us ever got the barge back to base I'll never know. The walk out of industrial Hanley along the cut towards the arable Norton is a joy of contrasts. Graffiti gives way to grass. More so when there were working factories on the route. |
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Post by stokieinaus on Apr 14, 2019 1:08:08 GMT
"The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit". More generally to Gods qu's. I don't know the full circumstances. I reckon he has a duty of care and he's reckless regarding her life. Poor lad has probably suffered enough and common sense might dictate that it may be 'not in the public interest' to prosecute him. Need to know a lot more about his efforts to avoid the accident, efforts to save her etc etc Grounds for manslaughter charge I'd say. Does that apply to paddle boats as well? I would assume it’s no different than a pedal bike, and thats illegal to ride if over the limit |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 6:04:34 GMT
He’s always referred to as the “Thames speedboat killer” in the press, which given the headline you’d think he was some sort of mass murderer, whereas when you read the stories it seems he was irresponsible and a tragic accident occurred.
I don’t know enough about it to judge, but perhaps a very different picture would be painted in the press if it was one of his mates instead of a young woman.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Apr 14, 2019 7:39:31 GMT
When I was at the uni in Stoke we did a project taking black and white photos of the industrial landscape from the cut through the Stoke/ Etruria basin. It all went pear shaped in that little pub on Shelton New Road just up from Twyfords and went into a 4/5 hour session. How the 12 of us ever got the barge back to base I'll never know. The walk out of industrial Hanley along the cut towards the arable Norton is a joy of contrasts. Graffiti gives way to grass. More so when there were working factories on the route. Which section is known as "the cut"? |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 14, 2019 7:45:22 GMT
The walk out of industrial Hanley along the cut towards the arable Norton is a joy of contrasts. Graffiti gives way to grass. More so when there were working factories on the route. Which section is known as "the cut"? All of it as far as I'm concerned. A local generic term for canal. Sadly a term becoming extinct, Soon be a lost language. Arfur Towcrate. |
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