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Post by Waggy on Mar 30, 2019 20:15:25 GMT
He wants regular Premier League football..... Shit
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 30, 2019 20:44:05 GMT
This is the most bizarre argument. Surely Southgate should be combing the regional Sunday leagues if the level a goalkeeper is playing at makes no difference. I quite agree, I'm just repeating what I've read: www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/jack-grealish-aston-villa-england-call-up-squad-latest-gareth-southgate-a8837706.htmlEdit: Sorry just read your post again: It's not that a bizarre argument. Butland is a proven goalkeeper with seasons of experience in the Premier league, he hasn't suddenly lost that ability because he's playing in the Championship. An outfield player can lose that competetiveness and awareness by dropping a league because the skill level of the opposition is a lot less, I don't think that applies to a goalkeeper as much. Why would the skill levels of the opposition reduce in every area of the pitch apart from that which the goalie has to deal with? It’s a vaguely plausible-sounding point that actually makes no sense at all
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 30, 2019 21:04:39 GMT
Why would the skill levels of the opposition reduce in every area of the pitch apart from that which the goalie has to deal with? It’s a vaguely plausible-sounding point that actually makes no sense at all Are you suggesting it is easier to stop shots or catch crosses in the Championship than the Premier league ? Outfield players have to match their opposite number and obviously the likes of Hazard, Aguero, Van Dijk etc etc have a far higher skill set than opposing players from Rotherham and Reading.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 30, 2019 21:13:44 GMT
Why would the skill levels of the opposition reduce in every area of the pitch apart from that which the goalie has to deal with? It’s a vaguely plausible-sounding point that actually makes no sense at all Are you suggesting it is easier to stop shots or catch crosses in the Championship than the Premier league ? Outfield players have to match their opposite number and obviously the likes of Hazard, Aguero, Van Dijk etc etc have a far higher skill set than opposing players from Rotherham and Reading. Why are you exempting shooting and crossing from the skill set? You’re literally arguing that Rotherham and Reading’s attackers are just as good at shooting and crossing as Hazard/Aguero et al. I’ll ask the question again, why is Southgate not scouring non-league football for a keeper? At what point *would* the level make a difference, in your opinion?
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Post by StokeTudoGuy on Mar 30, 2019 21:23:02 GMT
This might sound bonkers... But I think Jack would walk in at Juventus.
One of the best teams in the world with IMO a poor choice of keepers.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 30, 2019 21:26:45 GMT
He wants premier league football as without it he hasn’t got a hope in hell of starting for England and we can’t give him that We can the season after next. NJ is taking us there and it's gonna be one hell of a ride.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 30, 2019 21:35:01 GMT
If Jack leaves he has got to go and be a no 1 ,no point in leaving to challenge and needs to start sounds like Palace or Bournemouth well he might as well stay with us
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 30, 2019 21:41:40 GMT
Are you suggesting it is easier to stop shots or catch crosses in the Championship than the Premier league ? Outfield players have to match their opposite number and obviously the likes of Hazard, Aguero, Van Dijk etc etc have a far higher skill set than opposing players from Rotherham and Reading. Why are you exempting shooting and crossing from the skill set? You’re literally arguing that Rotherham and Reading’s attackers are just as good at shooting and crossing as Hazard/Aguero et al. I’ll ask the question again, why is Southgate not scouring non-league football for a keeper? At what point *would* the level make a difference, in your opinion? Would Butland be a better goalie if he played for Bournemouth or Cardiff?
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 30, 2019 22:26:20 GMT
Why are you exempting shooting and crossing from the skill set? You’re literally arguing that Rotherham and Reading’s attackers are just as good at shooting and crossing as Hazard/Aguero et al. I’ll ask the question again, why is Southgate not scouring non-league football for a keeper? At what point *would* the level make a difference, in your opinion? Would Butland be a better goalie if he played for Bournemouth or Cardiff? No, he’d be playing at a higher level. The point you have to substantiate is that the division a keeper is playing in makes no difference to the level of the task he faces on the pitch, because the players he faces are poorer quality in every area *except* the things they do which involve the goalkeeper, where for some reason they are every bit as good as your Hazards and Agüeros. It’s a self-evidently daft argument, I refer you back to my first post on the matter 🙂
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 3, 2019 17:35:53 GMT
I hope Jack does alright, he has been a good player for us and justly has ambition.
I hope he doesn't sell himself short by playing for the likes of Palace and find himself picking the ball out of the net all the time, or wind up like Begovic sitting on the bench all season at a big 6 club.
He needs to be patient and wait for the right offer. GKs can have a long career at the top if they look after themselves.
If the right offer does not come along I hope he throws his lot in with us for another season. Judging by Ryan and Charly's comments Stoke is decent place to earn a living.
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Post by tony1234 on Apr 3, 2019 17:44:17 GMT
Expect him to go to somewhere like Palarse next season would be a terrible move Agree with both of you!
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 3, 2019 17:51:19 GMT
Nixon mentioning Palace interest again earlier.
He's just got to work out if he thinks there's any chance of top 6 interest in the medium-term. If he decides not, couldn't blame him for going for a Palace-type option. The England spot is up for grabs, and he can't wait forever. He's 26 now and made his England debut 7 years ago. Another season in this league could see him disappear further.
Realistically, I think he'll be off
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 3, 2019 17:52:33 GMT
If we could get someone like Forster in from So'ton, and somewhere around £20M for Butland, I'd take that every day of the week now!!!
Not sure I can see it on either front though!!!
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 3, 2019 18:00:38 GMT
We won't buy Forster. What will Burnley do when they have Pope fit though?
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Post by callas12 on Apr 3, 2019 18:29:21 GMT
I've always thought Forster would be a good replacement but was chatting to a Southampton fan only yesterday on a works course about him and he says he's fallen so far down the rankings that he's 4th choice down there now. Sounds like it may be more than loss of form and footy issues thats hampered him over recent years so it looks very unlikely he'd ever be an option for us or anyone else imminently either.
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Post by ladyinred on Apr 4, 2019 12:34:45 GMT
Could we loan Butland to say Palace, for a year? Get him off the wage bill, and JB gets to play regular PL football in a Euro's season.
Bring Joe Hart in for our assault on the Championship
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Post by Absolution on Apr 4, 2019 13:08:36 GMT
I’d rather go for a young up and coming keeper that we can sell on for a profit. The problem with going for keepers like Forster or Hart is that we’d probably pay as much for one of them (fee and/or wages) as we’d get for Butland and we’d be getting an inferior keeper. We need to make the sale of Butland work for us financially as well as on the pitch.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 4, 2019 13:28:39 GMT
In so many words South gate said the quality of the goals scored in the championship take the edge off the sharpness of the goal keeper. It was sad to see Jack on the bench last week. Jack is better off playing every week for a team, than being on the bench. Should he go to a top team he would have to make sure he keeps that 1st Goalkeeper place. Plenty for Jack to think about. There no definite if he went to a premier league team that he would be number one goalkeeper for England. He needs to think carefully. However he is happy to give game time to outfield players who have never started a Premier League game. He also says he picks players on their England form, not on their club form (as he has in defence of both Hart and Pickford) Don't get me wrong, I like what Southgate is doing with the national team - but this particular message is inconsistent. The other point is that England is not overly blessed with top goalkeepers. Hart is finished. Pickford is at best erratic but is closest to Southgate's desired model of sweeper/keeper. Pope is crocked, Heaton has had reasonable form since injury, McCarthy is crocked and Gunn is untried. The other point is that there is a concentration of English goalkeepers at Burnley and Southampton - so by definition they can't all be playing all of the time. If Pickford continues down his road of self destruction both on and of the pitch Southgate has got a big decision and whilst I don't think Butland would command a place at any of the English Top Six, in England National Team terms he is as well placed as any to take over from Pickford whether he's at Stoke or not.
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 4, 2019 13:51:15 GMT
Assuming Jack has full control over any decision (the manager or board may want to cash in to re build), he has two choices....stay and acquire a status akin to Shawcross with no proper recognition at International level, or move on and have an honest stab at being an International footballer with a bigger or more media loved club.
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Post by neddy on Apr 4, 2019 13:54:45 GMT
I’m sure If he goes his wages will rise significantly?
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Post by bertiestan on Apr 4, 2019 14:31:58 GMT
Assuming Jack has full control over any decision (the manager or board may want to cash in to re build), he has two choices....stay and acquire a status akin to Shawcross with no proper recognition at International level, or move on and have an honest stab at being an International footballer with a bigger or more media loved club. I think that's stating the obvious mate.
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Post by dastokie on Apr 4, 2019 14:39:45 GMT
Girona looks likely
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Post by lordb on Apr 4, 2019 16:18:42 GMT
Girona looks likely For Butland? WTF
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Post by dastokie on Apr 4, 2019 16:32:05 GMT
Girona looks likely For Butland? WTF Good mates with Muni
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Post by lordb on Apr 4, 2019 16:35:45 GMT
Girona couldn't possibly afford him
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 16:51:39 GMT
He will definitely be off in the summer. There is no way he is going to spend another season in the Championship.
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Post by tony1234 on Apr 4, 2019 17:04:10 GMT
Would we be better with: a) Jack, or... b) A decent keeper, LB and left-sided forward? (e.g. John Ruddy 2m, Julian James 4m, Behnrama or Watkins 12m)?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 4, 2019 18:34:51 GMT
Joe hart for me with Man City paying his wages
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Post by lordb on Apr 4, 2019 20:34:26 GMT
Joe hart for me with Man City paying his wages Would he drop a division? He might. Prefer Begovic But whatever, there are good keepers out there.
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Post by swampySCFC on Apr 4, 2019 21:49:56 GMT
He wants regular Premier League football..... Bang on mate. Sad really but he is better than Pickford
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