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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 7:24:31 GMT
Strong rumours linking Max Aarons to Palace as a replacement for their right back. Fee of 15-20M mentioned. The lad has played one season in professional football. We really should be looking at 30M minimum for Butland in this market. Lots of comparisons with outfield players and the market but I wonder, is the market for goalkeepers is it's own discrete market? It's a role and a skill set so different from an outfield player it could be a different sport . I'm not saying a keeper is not equally important only that it's a separate market. If there is a one time aspiring volley ball/handball player in Croatia or Spain who can catch and parry and gets the angles as well as Jack then that's one more on the supply side of the equation. You could be right there Gods. Pickford is the benchmark though and many rate Butland on a par and some rate him higher. The market has also moved on since then.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 12, 2019 7:30:39 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though?
Everton were going berserk that summer.
At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more.
If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty
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Post by lordb on Jun 12, 2019 7:39:20 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though? Everton were going berserk that summer. At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more. If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty I think the fee is going to be an 'in betweener' If he gets the England shirt he will go for £50m however lots were posting they would be happy with £15m If we get a bidding war then £30m is acheivable but if we don't then somewhere in the mid £20m+ is not to be sniffed at. Sell on clause please Mr Scholes.
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Post by jeycov on Jun 12, 2019 7:43:30 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though? Everton were going berserk that summer. At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more. If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty I think the fee is going to be an 'in betweener' If he gets the England shirt he will go for £50m however lots were posting they would be happy with £15m If we get a bidding war then £30m is acheivable but if we don't then somewhere in the mid £20m+ is not to be sniffed at. Sell on clause please Mr Scholes. The sell on clauses and international appearances? would be an important part of any deal Surely £25 million minimum Signing another gk before he goes may not help?
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Post by bolders on Jun 12, 2019 7:47:29 GMT
I think it will be £20 mil up front and £3-5 mil with add-ons if they stay up and probably a sell on clause to
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Post by pottersrule on Jun 12, 2019 7:51:17 GMT
It’s all paper talk and it may well be all bollocks mate but he’s also got 2 years left on his contract This one is a stern test for Stoke ...£23m plus A N other yeah but £23m for Butland on his own will be an absolute joke Let’s hope it’s bollocks Suppose it does make a difference when the rumoured buyer is a superclub and when they're a Villa/Bournemouth/Palace-type though. Different worlds. And we've got a gun to our heads a bit having already bought his successor on a long-term deal and with the knowledge that we are going to need to cash in for whatever we can get this summer now There are only 3-4 potential buyers (and we don't know just how serious any of them are) - and all of them would consider £20m a colossal fee, and all can theoretically look elsewhere at cheaper options, like the Cardiff keeper available at half the price for example if we hold firm and refuse to blink It's obviously a bit of a stand-off but buyer or seller will have to blink in the end and there are reasons why it may be us The fact we paid £3 million less,for this massive fee for Wimmer, makes it even the more galling.
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Post by sportsman on Jun 12, 2019 7:57:09 GMT
I think we'll get offered 20m but ask them come back with 15m because we're that kind of club. 😁
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Post by Timmy on Jun 12, 2019 8:11:55 GMT
I think the fee is going to be an 'in betweener' If he gets the England shirt he will go for £50m however lots were posting they would be happy with £15m If we get a bidding war then £30m is acheivable but if we don't then somewhere in the mid £20m+ is not to be sniffed at. Sell on clause please Mr Scholes. The sell on clauses and international appearances? would be an important part of any deal Surely £25 million minimum Signing another gk before he goes may not help? I agree a minimum of 25m is a must, anything less is daylight robbery.
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Post by werrington on Jun 12, 2019 8:39:09 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though? Everton were going berserk that summer. At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more. If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty So if Aston Villa bid £10m and there were no more bidders you’d sell him ?
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Post by lordb on Jun 12, 2019 8:58:40 GMT
I think the fee is going to be an 'in betweener' If he gets the England shirt he will go for £50m however lots were posting they would be happy with £15m If we get a bidding war then £30m is acheivable but if we don't then somewhere in the mid £20m+ is not to be sniffed at. Sell on clause please Mr Scholes. The sell on clauses and international appearances? would be an important part of any deal Surely £25 million minimum Signing another gk before he goes may not help? I think it helps If we get a big fee then go in the market for a keeper clubs will raise the price Signing Davies first, on a free too,look a sensible move providing he's any good (I have no view on that).
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 12, 2019 8:59:30 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though? Everton were going berserk that summer. At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more. If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty So if Aston Villa bid £10m and there were no more bidders you’d sell him ? I think the parameters for any deal were always going to be higher than that. But it's an art, not a science, isn't it? The club basically have to put their finger in the air and see which way, and how strongly, the wind is blowing - and try to gauge what they can get for any asset in a given market. But I think we're in a position where we do basically have to sell this summer - and the potential buyers know that and that's going to be one of the factors influencing the fee
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Post by lordb on Jun 12, 2019 8:59:44 GMT
The sell on clauses and international appearances? would be an important part of any deal Surely £25 million minimum Signing another gk before he goes may not help? I agree a minimum of 25m is a must, anything less is daylight robbery. Would depend on size of sell on clause and the add ons. Could be a complicated deal.
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Post by Stokester on Jun 12, 2019 8:59:57 GMT
I think the best thing regardless is we get rid now. He’s been brilliant for us and a great pro about the situation, but we have a replacement lined up already and Butland is our most valuable asset and the main finding behind whatever we will spend the summer. That £20m could go a long way in getting the goals we so desperately need in the team.
We’d be insane not to add a sell on clause too.
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 12, 2019 9:00:28 GMT
Is Pickford a complete outlier though? Everton were going berserk that summer. At the end of the day, we can stamp our feet but unless someone is willing to go above £20m, we've got a decision to make. A player is worth what someone will pay and no more. If it becomes a staring contest, we've got to be pretty sure that someone's going to blink first and give us £23-£25m+ - and not move on to a cheaper option - or we're going to be left with a pissed off, depreciating asset in Butland, an equally pissed off Davies - and a small transfer kitty So if Aston Villa bid £10m and there were no more bidders you’d sell him ? I wouldn’t, but you just know Scholes and the board would....after all it’s £10 million quid in their eyes.
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Post by slother on Jun 12, 2019 9:05:52 GMT
Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 12, 2019 10:44:41 GMT
His stock is low though. 30m would be lovely but he’s just not got the hype or performances to back that up. And Max Aarons has? Yes. He's one of the hottest prospects around and has that hype on the back of a promotion season. That's why I think a move to Bournemouth is actually better for Butland, it's a better PR chance.
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Post by callas12 on Jun 12, 2019 11:02:29 GMT
The pricing issue that's being discussed here & let's face it we don't know how accurate the fees being banded around are, is that there is no major movement on the top teams especially in the Premier League that are in the market for new keepers. Liverpool, Man C, Spurs, Arsenal & Chelsea are all pretty content with their goalkeeping choices right now. Its movement within these teams that would start a bidding war & only then would we likely get what we feel Butland is really worth. David de Gea is possibly the only keeper with an uncertain future at Man Utd right now & would Butland realistically be being viewed as a potential replacement right now for him?
It's clear Butland would have to leave Stoke to be a starter at a new club so that kind of rules out him heading to one of these clubs to be warming the bench coz he'd be better off staying with us and at least playing games than doing that. Even teams competing just above and in mid table all seem pretty happy with their No.1 choices right now, the Wolves, Evertons, West Hams etc.
Which is why it's the likes of Bournemouth, Palace and newly promoted Villa who are being linked with him and they won't want to pay top dollar. They all know Butland wants to move back to the Premier League and due to no top teams believed to be sniffing around after Jack at the mo, the £20mil+ figures being banded around right now are probably in the footballing world a fair valuation. Whilst he's in the England squad he hasn't played a full competitive England International for a good few years now so even this can't be used as a selling point right now either. Especially as its unlikely he'll remove Pickford any time soon either, and its these features & small margins that go some way to deciding if Butlands a £20mil+ keeper or a £30mil+ keeper!
Whilst I hope he hasn't, has anyone even considered if Butlands current contract has a release fee attached to it? I'm thinking In terms of the Shaqiri contract, maybe when Butland signed his current contract there's a release fee of £23mil attached to it if Stoke are still a Championship club. So it may yet again be the case that our hand is forced into selling a player for below his market value. Might not be the case but just a thought & it might of been the only way to get Jack to commit to us for the first season in the Champo with the hope in mind that we managed to get back up at the first attempt which sadly wasn't to be.
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Post by doncorleone on Jun 12, 2019 11:17:26 GMT
So roomers from a Villa fan I work with is Jack is going to Villa for £16M
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Post by skip on Jun 12, 2019 11:22:56 GMT
roomers
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 11:23:22 GMT
So roomers from a Villa fan I work with is Jack is going to Villa for £16M Not a chance he is going for that amount.
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 12, 2019 11:28:44 GMT
It’s ironic how close Villa were to going bust and we were about to pick on their bones with James Chester......then the infamous fucking about of the Stoke transfer team coupled with a shit manager and further poor activity around transfers and bingo.....here we are, miles behind them and them picking on our bones. Nice one Stoke.
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Post by pipegatepotter on Jun 12, 2019 11:32:28 GMT
The pricing issue that's being discussed here & let's face it we don't know how accurate the fees being banded around are, is that there is no major movement on the top teams especially in the Premier League that are in the market for new keepers. Liverpool, Man C, Spurs, Arsenal & Chelsea are all pretty content with their goalkeeping choices right now. Its movement within these teams that would start a bidding war & only then would we likely get what we feel Butland is really worth. David de Gea is possibly the only keeper with an uncertain future at Man Utd right now & would Butland realistically be being viewed as a potential replacement right now for him? It's clear Butland would have to leave Stoke to be a starter at a new club so that kind of rules out him heading to one of these clubs to be warming the bench coz he'd be better off staying with us and at least playing games than doing that. Even teams competing just above and in mid table all seem pretty happy with their No.1 choices right now, the Wolves, Evertons, West Hams etc. Which is why it's the likes of Bournemouth, Palace and newly promoted Villa who are being linked with him and they won't want to pay top dollar. They all know Butland wants to move back to the Premier League and due to no top teams believed to be sniffing around after Jack at the mo, the £20mil+ figures being banded around right now are probably in the footballing world a fair valuation. Whilst he's in the England squad he hasn't played a full competitive England International for a good few years now so even this can't be used as a selling point right now either. Especially as its unlikely he'll remove Pickford any time soon either, and its these features & small margins that go some way to deciding if Butlands a £20mil+ keeper or a £30mil+ keeper! Whilst I hope he hasn't, has anyone even considered if Butlands current contract has a release fee attached to it? I'm thinking In terms of the Shaqiri contract, maybe when Butland signed his current contract there's a release fee of £23mil attached to it if Stoke are still a Championship club. So it may yet again be the case that our hand is forced into selling a player for below his market value. Might not be the case but just a thought & it might of been the only way to get Jack to commit to us for the first season in the Champo with the hope in mind that we managed to get back up at the first attempt which sadly wasn't to be. Butland did not sign a new contract when we got relegated so can’t see a minimum fee if in the Championship is relevant
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jun 12, 2019 11:39:51 GMT
Why would he go to a club that has a more than 50/50 chance of dipping back in the championship - he would need a relegation clause with a middling price - and stoke would want additional fee if they stay up after 1 season and after 2 seasons plus an add on clause. There again my names not Scholes
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 11:43:36 GMT
It’s ironic how close Villa were to going bust and we were about to pick on their bones with James Chester......then the infamous fucking about of the Stoke transfer team coupled with a shit manager and further poor activity around transfers and bingo.....here we are, miles behind them and them picking on our bones. Nice one Stoke. We dodged a bullet with Chester.
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Post by werrington on Jun 12, 2019 11:47:02 GMT
It’s ironic how close Villa were to going bust and we were about to pick on their bones with James Chester......then the infamous fucking about of the Stoke transfer team coupled with a shit manager and further poor activity around transfers and bingo.....here we are, miles behind them and them picking on our bones. Nice one Stoke. Why did we fuck about? Chester himself said he didn’t want to leave Aston Villa and he was advised to sit tight and await the impending takeover But hey ho it’s not the angle that suits
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Post by kelw on Jun 12, 2019 11:56:26 GMT
It’s ironic how close Villa were to going bust and we were about to pick on their bones with James Chester......then the infamous fucking about of the Stoke transfer team coupled with a shit manager and further poor activity around transfers and bingo.....here we are, miles behind them and them picking on our bones. Nice one Stoke. They're not though. They've signed no one from us, is just rumours which we have every window with Butland. If they get him for a low price then yes but I doubt Villa are going to spend 20 million plus on one of our players. Someone plucking a figure out of mid air isn't an example of them 'picking on our bones'
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 12, 2019 11:59:47 GMT
It’s ironic how close Villa were to going bust and we were about to pick on their bones with James Chester......then the infamous fucking about of the Stoke transfer team coupled with a shit manager and further poor activity around transfers and bingo.....here we are, miles behind them and them picking on our bones. Nice one Stoke. Why did we fuck about? Chester himself said he didn’t want to leave Aston Villa and he was advised to sit tight and await the impending takeover But hey ho it’s not the angle that suits We fucked about by bidding a ridiculously fee. I agree with you that it probably wouldn't have happened anyway but we didn't even try to make it happen with our actions. We were passive. I think that's fair?
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Post by callas12 on Jun 12, 2019 12:08:16 GMT
The pricing issue that's being discussed here & let's face it we don't know how accurate the fees being banded around are, is that there is no major movement on the top teams especially in the Premier League that are in the market for new keepers. Liverpool, Man C, Spurs, Arsenal & Chelsea are all pretty content with their goalkeeping choices right now. Its movement within these teams that would start a bidding war & only then would we likely get what we feel Butland is really worth. David de Gea is possibly the only keeper with an uncertain future at Man Utd right now & would Butland realistically be being viewed as a potential replacement right now for him? It's clear Butland would have to leave Stoke to be a starter at a new club so that kind of rules out him heading to one of these clubs to be warming the bench coz he'd be better off staying with us and at least playing games than doing that. Even teams competing just above and in mid table all seem pretty happy with their No.1 choices right now, the Wolves, Evertons, West Hams etc. Which is why it's the likes of Bournemouth, Palace and newly promoted Villa who are being linked with him and they won't want to pay top dollar. They all know Butland wants to move back to the Premier League and due to no top teams believed to be sniffing around after Jack at the mo, the £20mil+ figures being banded around right now are probably in the footballing world a fair valuation. Whilst he's in the England squad he hasn't played a full competitive England International for a good few years now so even this can't be used as a selling point right now either. Especially as its unlikely he'll remove Pickford any time soon either, and its these features & small margins that go some way to deciding if Butlands a £20mil+ keeper or a £30mil+ keeper! Whilst I hope he hasn't, has anyone even considered if Butlands current contract has a release fee attached to it? I'm thinking In terms of the Shaqiri contract, maybe when Butland signed his current contract there's a release fee of £23mil attached to it if Stoke are still a Championship club. So it may yet again be the case that our hand is forced into selling a player for below his market value. Might not be the case but just a thought & it might of been the only way to get Jack to commit to us for the first season in the Champo with the hope in mind that we managed to get back up at the first attempt which sadly wasn't to be. Butland did not sign a new contract when we got relegated so can’t see a minimum fee if in the Championship is relevant I never said he did sign it when we were in the Championship.. Contracts contain all sorts of clauses & safeguards to prepare for every eventuality. I'm sure the majority of players in the Premier League especially the non top 6 teams have clauses that avail them the insurance of eventualities should the club get relegated and these will likely have release fees attached. Not so much the players but agents aren't stupid, they'll make sure the players are looked after and catered for beyond a clubs current position at the time a new deal is signed. Just like the players % wage drops will all be agreed prior to any relegation occurring. The Shaqiri release fee was clearly agreed whilst we were still a Premier League club.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 12, 2019 12:23:14 GMT
It's obviously from the bloke the Villa fan shares a flat with.
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Post by adi on Jun 12, 2019 12:25:03 GMT
We’re awful at selling players. Didn’t we demand £30m not a few months ago, now we’ve dropped the price by 20%?! Who says we have? Oh yeah, the Express & Star. I’ll wait out for the full £30m with baited breath!
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