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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2019 16:09:07 GMT
This is a question I seem to see posed about a lot of our players. It is hard to get one's head round how so many once-decent players seem to have deteriorated so rapidly, mostly unhampered by injury, some continuing their decline into a lower division, and some under various managers, team and systems.
To go through the players that this could apply to....
Jack Butland - definitely never got back to pre-injury form. Also perhaps just not quite as good as we thought, not necessarily surprising
Moritz Bauer - wasn't he one of the few bright sparks of the 2nd half of last season? Did we just have extremely low expectations of right backs?
Joe Allen - Liverpool fans loved him! Probably just finally been found out in all honesty
Peter Etebo - monster for Nigeria against Argentina. Are we using him wrong?
Benik Afobe - whatever anyone says, he has proven himself at this level. Just looks lazy and lightweight for us. Is he unhappy?
Bruno Martins Indi - this is probably the one I find most confounding. Am I imagining things or was he not an absolute beast when he first arrived at Premier League level? He's only 27!
Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while
Ryan Woods - simply a class above in his first game. Looks sloppy and lethargic now. Still young, he'll come good surely
I looked at the team last night and with the pedigree of the players it looked like an extremely strong Championship team. It's also common to see fans of other teams talking about how surprised they are at our position given the quality in our squad. It's just hard to see why so many players are seemingly under-performing when there's no easily-identifiable common factor aside from the vague general malaise of our club...
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Post by Gods on Feb 14, 2019 16:12:14 GMT
I predict it won't be long be for you are writing a short bio on Sam Vokes!
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Post by canadianmoose on Feb 14, 2019 16:17:09 GMT
I predict it won't be long be for you are writing a short bio on Sam Vokes! Makes me wonder if you could sell Mamady Sidibe for 9 million plus these days? What price a Ricardo Fuller??? |
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Post by harlequin on Feb 14, 2019 17:01:15 GMT
The common denominator is our last coaching staff.
To clarify:
I was answering why these players in particular declined.
Etebo, Afobe, Clucas and woods, were signed in the last regime.
Indi, Allen and Bauer have also suffered the hit to their reputation in the same time period.
Which coincides with Rowett's tenure.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2019 17:02:17 GMT
The common denominator is our last coaching staff. I really hope it’s as simple as that |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 17:08:45 GMT
Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while £2.25m |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 14, 2019 17:35:30 GMT
I predict it won't be long be for you are writing a short bio on Sam Vokes! Makes me wonder if you could sell Mamady Sidibe for 9 million plus these days? What price a Ricardo Fuller??? Priceless |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 17:36:03 GMT
The common denominator is our last coaching staff. That really wouldn't explain why the "malaise" started in the 2016-17 season. |
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Post by Gods on Feb 14, 2019 17:50:52 GMT
The common denominator is our last coaching staff. We're on our 4th set of coaching staff in 13 months, they can hardly be a common denominator unless I've missed something!? |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 14, 2019 18:17:50 GMT
Bauer and Indi were massively over rated when they got here, although Indi has looked decent in the last couple of games so there's still hope, Clcas might still have some fitness issues as it was a sizeable injury lay off that he had and Etebo is still young and plenty of time for him yet, he also hasn't been playing badly this season.
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Post by misii30 on Feb 14, 2019 18:20:50 GMT
Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while £2.25m 16,30 Mill. € |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 14, 2019 18:34:15 GMT
Confidence. Dropping to the level of everyone else, just like players that play better in better teams.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2019 18:36:00 GMT
Confidence. Dropping to the level of everyone else, just like players that play better in better teams. Which is to say that if NJ is anything of a man-manager and motivator, it should be pretty easy to sort out... |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 14, 2019 18:40:29 GMT
Confidence. Dropping to the level of everyone else, just like players that play better in better teams. Which is to say that if NJ is anything of a man-manager and motivator, it should be pretty easy to sort out... I wouldn't say it'd be easy in the slightest. Looking from the outside, if I was the manager I'd get a top tier psychologist like Steve Peters in. Maybe Jones already has. Edit: If Rowett's public persona was anything to go by, Jones has a better chance than Rowett confidence-instilling-wise. |
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Post by march4 on Feb 14, 2019 18:43:15 GMT
The players are starting to look fitter.
That can only help.
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Post by leicspotter on Feb 14, 2019 18:47:18 GMT
This is a question I seem to see posed about a lot of our players. It is hard to get one's head round how so many once-decent players seem to have deteriorated so rapidly, mostly unhampered by injury, some continuing their decline into a lower division, and some under various managers, team and systems. To go through the players that this could apply to.... Jack Butland - definitely never got back to pre-injury form. Also perhaps just not quite as good as we thought, not necessarily surprising Moritz Bauer - wasn't he one of the few bright sparks of the 2nd half of last season? Did we just have extremely low expectations of right backs? Joe Allen - Liverpool fans loved him! Probably just finally been found out in all honesty Peter Etebo - monster for Nigeria against Argentina. Are we using him wrong? Benik Afobe - whatever anyone says, he has proven himself at this level. Just looks lazy and lightweight for us. Is he unhappy? Bruno Martins Indi - this is probably the one I find most confounding. Am I imagining things or was he not an absolute beast when he first arrived at Premier League level? He's only 27! Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while Ryan Woods - simply a class above in his first game. Looks sloppy and lethargic now. Still young, he'll come good surely I looked at the team last night and with the pedigree of the players it looked like an extremely strong Championship team. It's also common to see fans of other teams talking about how surprised they are at our position given the quality in our squad. It's just hard to see why so many players are seemingly under-performing when there's no easily-identifiable common factor aside from the vague general malaise of our club... Football is a team game and every team needs to be 'balanced'. None of these players were brought to the club to play a diamond formation, several were brought in to play Hughes's way, other Rowetts...and I doubt any of us are really sure what either of those two wanted anyway. During Hughes's final season and a half I was often raising a question of balance (one for all the Moody Blues fans out there  0 as it seemed he was only signing No 10's. Allen has, to me, looked at his best coming forward from deep, arriving late in the box and bagging a few goals. Most of the time though he is being employed to do his headless chicken act  Bauer has never looked like he could defend, Clucas has not looked fit...the others all suit a different formation (s), whilst Butland struggles with his kicking, which was particularly evident under Hughes with his insistence of playing out from the back I fully expect Jones to make progress with this club, but not necessarily with these players Time will tell |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 14, 2019 18:57:50 GMT
4 managers (and 4 sets of coaching staff) in a year - nobody in the squad knows what they are supposed to be doing. We're playing against teams who've been stable for a period of time. Player for player they are not as good - but as a team they are years ahead of us.
The other problem is a lack of leadership on the pitch and players waiting for everyone else to take responsibility. We've got players good at handing out bollockings but no-one who seems to inspire.
For all his failings Pulis understood the value of character and Hughes, who in some ways was way better than Pulis, massively under estimated it's importance. We need players who genuinely want to play for us to who will take personal responsibility for our success.
In terms of technical ability we'll end up with a far worse squad - but that can be compensated for by good team play and the right character. Hopefully.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 19:32:39 GMT
The big question for me was Imbula. Wow what a player! No question at all that he had skill and talent.
Something happened, just like all of the others. Yea you can say that he was just a pure lazy arse - just like all of the others.
You can persue an agenda against Hughes, and use it as a weapon.
Imbula was a massive talent.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 14, 2019 20:11:04 GMT
This is a question I seem to see posed about a lot of our players. It is hard to get one's head round how so many once-decent players seem to have deteriorated so rapidly, mostly unhampered by injury, some continuing their decline into a lower division, and some under various managers, team and systems. To go through the players that this could apply to.... Jack Butland - definitely never got back to pre-injury form. Also perhaps just not quite as good as we thought, not necessarily surprising Moritz Bauer - wasn't he one of the few bright sparks of the 2nd half of last season? Did we just have extremely low expectations of right backs? Joe Allen - Liverpool fans loved him! Probably just finally been found out in all honesty Peter Etebo - monster for Nigeria against Argentina. Are we using him wrong? Benik Afobe - whatever anyone says, he has proven himself at this level. Just looks lazy and lightweight for us. Is he unhappy? Bruno Martins Indi - this is probably the one I find most confounding. Am I imagining things or was he not an absolute beast when he first arrived at Premier League level? He's only 27! Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while Ryan Woods - simply a class above in his first game. Looks sloppy and lethargic now. Still young, he'll come good surely I looked at the team last night and with the pedigree of the players it looked like an extremely strong Championship team. It's also common to see fans of other teams talking about how surprised they are at our position given the quality in our squad. It's just hard to see why so many players are seemingly under-performing when there's no easily-identifiable common factor aside from the vague general malaise of our club... Thought all the players you mentioned here played well yesterday apart from Afobe and Woods.  |
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 14, 2019 20:29:02 GMT
Club culture.
Root of everything
Stems from "leadership" at the top
The message from the "leadership" is: "Ther is no accountability for failure or performance here, no matter how abject....... behave like a petulant infant and we'll just give you your own coach (SB).... time for a new manager, well, we'll bring in a someone as cheap as wel can, as long as he's a yes man... time to get a new team-mate, well we'll vastly overspend on another mercenary who doesn't care much.
As a player, what is the point of feeling uber motivated when all around you is dross and staff have been conditioned not to care by those who are supposed to be the stewards of the club.
(BTW - can't we add Imbula, N'Diaye to the list?)
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2019 20:29:15 GMT
This is a question I seem to see posed about a lot of our players. It is hard to get one's head round how so many once-decent players seem to have deteriorated so rapidly, mostly unhampered by injury, some continuing their decline into a lower division, and some under various managers, team and systems. To go through the players that this could apply to.... Jack Butland - definitely never got back to pre-injury form. Also perhaps just not quite as good as we thought, not necessarily surprising Moritz Bauer - wasn't he one of the few bright sparks of the 2nd half of last season? Did we just have extremely low expectations of right backs? Joe Allen - Liverpool fans loved him! Probably just finally been found out in all honesty Peter Etebo - monster for Nigeria against Argentina. Are we using him wrong? Benik Afobe - whatever anyone says, he has proven himself at this level. Just looks lazy and lightweight for us. Is he unhappy? Bruno Martins Indi - this is probably the one I find most confounding. Am I imagining things or was he not an absolute beast when he first arrived at Premier League level? He's only 27! Sam Clucas - was it 15 or 20m Swansea paid? Surely he's not so bad as to be completely unable to trap a football? Surely? I guess he was injured quite a while Ryan Woods - simply a class above in his first game. Looks sloppy and lethargic now. Still young, he'll come good surely I looked at the team last night and with the pedigree of the players it looked like an extremely strong Championship team. It's also common to see fans of other teams talking about how surprised they are at our position given the quality in our squad. It's just hard to see why so many players are seemingly under-performing when there's no easily-identifiable common factor aside from the vague general malaise of our club... Thought all the players you mentioned here played well yesterday apart from Afobe and Woods. Yes I did have a moment of apprehension while I was writing it for that very reason to be honest  BMI does look like he's on the road to recovery of form, helped by the arrival of Batth perhaps. And I prefer Clucas at LB. Joe is Joe, Etebo I can't really figure out yet. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 14, 2019 20:42:21 GMT
Thought all the players you mentioned here played well yesterday apart from Afobe and Woods. Yes I did have a moment of apprehension while I was writing it for that very reason to be honest BMI does look like he's on the road to recovery of form, helped by the arrival of Batth perhaps. And I prefer Clucas at LB. Joe is Joe, Etebo I can't really figure out yet. Etebo is certainly a strange one, but he works hard and also seems to be a tough player. Good pace too and when he really decides to take players on he has the abilty to get past them. His shooting though is probably some of the worst I've seen, does he wear slìppers! |
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0 as it seemed he was only signing No 10's.
BMI does look like he's on the road to recovery of form, helped by the arrival of Batth perhaps. And I prefer Clucas at LB. Joe is Joe, Etebo I can't really figure out yet.
