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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 21, 2019 11:45:07 GMT
I think we of all clubs would be able to recognise when a player is stealing a living and to put McClean in that bracket is disingenuous at best.
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Post by RAF on Jul 21, 2019 11:45:47 GMT
Strip everything back and he is a poor footballer stealing a living. H We've had many, 'poor footballers' and many have done wonderful jobs for us. As far as I'm concerned he's stealing nowt so long as he is working as hard as he is. What poor footballers have done wonderful jobs for us? Because for me if they have done a wonderful job they can't be poor. As for working hard , I should hope he is getting paid that amount of money for generally being poor. H
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 21, 2019 11:53:29 GMT
Weird how some of our expert fans can see things from 90 mins of football every week that many professional coaches and managers who work with them for hours & hours each week can’t. Proper head scratcher.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 11:53:56 GMT
We've had many, 'poor footballers' and many have done wonderful jobs for us. As far as I'm concerned he's stealing nowt so long as he is working as hard as he is. What poor footballers have done wonderful jobs for us? Because for me if they have done a wonderful job they can't be poor. As for working hard , I should hope he is getting paid that amount of money for generally being poor. H He has no less ability than several of the squad that got us promoted in my opinion, they were utilised correctly and hopefully this is Jones doing the same with McClean. Mama Sidibe was a relatively poor footballer, but he was utilised wonderfully for us. Wimmer is stealing a living, he is happy to be paid by a club that he is unwilling to play for. We chose to sign McClean, it's not his obligation to be good it is his obligation to try to the best of his ability and that he does.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 21, 2019 11:59:28 GMT
I think we of all clubs would be able to recognise when a player is stealing a living and to put McClean in that bracket is disingenous at best. Very true. The frustration is that, since we've been in the Champs, we've spent £70m+ on 20-odd players (lost count) and are having to put a LW at LB when the full backs are critical to our system of choice. You couldn't really explain to anyone the incompetence at our club.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 21, 2019 12:04:22 GMT
I think we of all clubs would be able to recognise when a player is stealing a living and to put McClean in that bracket is disingenous at best. Very true. The frustration is that, since we've been in the Champs, we've spent £70m+ on 20-odd players (lost count) and are having to put a LW at LB when the full backs are critical to our system of choice. You couldn't really explain to anyone the incompetence at our club. It’s not ideal and I’m not too happy about it, he’ll give it his best efforts though and he does has certain qualities that might make it work. That said it does seem odd leaving a specialist position to a 33 year old and a converted winger, especially compared to the right side which looks absolutely quality now IMO. I just think it’s unfair to put McClean in a bracket of stealing a living when we have certain players taking the piss out of the club on a daily basis.
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Post by RAF on Jul 21, 2019 12:04:39 GMT
What poor footballers have done wonderful jobs for us? Because for me if they have done a wonderful job they can't be poor. As for working hard , I should hope he is getting paid that amount of money for generally being poor. H He has no less ability than several of the squad that got us promoted in my opinion, they were utilised correctly and hopefully this is Jones doing the same with McClean. Mama Sidibe was a relatively poor footballer, but he was utilised wonderfully for us. Wimmer is stealing a living, he is happy to be paid by a club that he is unwilling to play for. We chose to sign McClean, it's not his obligation to be good it is his obligation to try to the best of his ability and that he does. You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H
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Post by tomcmod on Jul 21, 2019 12:08:48 GMT
I don't why people are moaning for putting a left winger at full back when he's going to be an attacking one. Isn't that a good thing? You also know he'll put a shift in too. Look at teams who have done this over the last few years to accommodate attacking full backs. Young and Valencia at the shit, Moses at Chelsea that's just of the top of my head. The proof will be when the season starts, he has been training in this position and impressed so far in preseason. Give him a few games at least, it is not like we are chucking him goal a day before season starts!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:11:14 GMT
He has no less ability than several of the squad that got us promoted in my opinion, they were utilised correctly and hopefully this is Jones doing the same with McClean. Mama Sidibe was a relatively poor footballer, but he was utilised wonderfully for us. Wimmer is stealing a living, he is happy to be paid by a club that he is unwilling to play for. We chose to sign McClean, it's not his obligation to be good it is his obligation to try to the best of his ability and that he does. You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H I can barely even decipher that. I agree we should never have signed him but we did and I doubt we'll be able to shift him easily, we then have to make the best of his abilities. I think that could well be at fullback where he does have the potential to be successful in my opinion.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 21, 2019 12:12:26 GMT
I think the ultimate example of a poor footballer doing well is Jack Charlton. The last thing Jack could do was play with the ball and he wasn't even very good at tackling, but his ability to stop other players playing and his giraffe physique made him one of the most difficult players for forwards to play against.
Revie and Ramsey recognised his ability and character and he achieved huge things in his career.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jul 21, 2019 12:12:29 GMT
So Jim isn't looking too shabby at left back atm?
"Jimmy, jimmy, oh jimmy mac, is our our new left back"
Martha & the vandellas - jimmy mack
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:12:38 GMT
He has no less ability than several of the squad that got us promoted in my opinion, they were utilised correctly and hopefully this is Jones doing the same with McClean. Mama Sidibe was a relatively poor footballer, but he was utilised wonderfully for us. Wimmer is stealing a living, he is happy to be paid by a club that he is unwilling to play for. We chose to sign McClean, it's not his obligation to be good it is his obligation to try to the best of his ability and that he does. You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H I’d say all of Rowetts other signings were worse and did less last season than McClean.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 21, 2019 12:14:26 GMT
I don't why people are moaning for putting a left winger at full back when he's going to be an attacking one. Isn't that a good thing? You also know he'll put a shift in too. Look at teams who have done this over the last few years to accommodate attacking full backs. Young and Valencia at the shit, Moses at Chelsea that's just of the top of my head. The proof will be when the season starts, he has been training in this position and impressed so far in preseason. Give him a few games at least, it is not like we are chucking him goal a day before season starts! I agree about giving him a few games I just think some of the concerns about the left side are completely valid, especially when you compare it to the right side. The teams you mentioned had Matic and Kante working as central destroyers to deal with any counters when their wing backs were caught high up, it remains to be seen if Cousins/Whoever else will play CDM can do that job.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 21, 2019 12:18:46 GMT
You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H I’d say all of Rowetts other signings were worse and did less last season than McClean. Assuming Etebo was not one of Rowett's signings, I have to agree I think you are right. Statistically Ince probably contributed more, but then that's just statistics, which don't measure how much trouble and aggravation a player can give to the other side. McClean was one player last season, like Joe Allen, who consistently made himself available to receive the forward pass, whereas others were "hiding".
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Post by RAF on Jul 21, 2019 12:22:38 GMT
You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H I can barely even decipher that. I agree we should never have signed him but we did and I doubt we'll be able to shift him easily, we then have to make the best of his abilities. I think that could well be at fullback where he does have the potential to be successful in my opinion. It's my stupid fucking phone predictive text. Replace test with twat and the first for with fit. H
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:22:41 GMT
I’d say all of Rowetts other signings were worse and did less last season than McClean. Assuming Etebo was not one of Rowett's signings, I have to agree I think you are right. Statistically Ince probably contributed more, but then that's just statistics, which don't measure how much trouble and aggravation a player can give to the other side. McClean was one player last season, like Joe Allen, who consistently made himself available to receive the forward pass, whereas others were "hiding". Yes even yesterday I noticed the tranmere commentators remarking that in quiet periods he was the one trying to take the game to them and make something happen.
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Post by sportsman on Jul 21, 2019 12:28:41 GMT
Why the fuck are we still debating this? If the manager picks him I'll back him and the rest 100%.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 21, 2019 12:28:54 GMT
Very true. The frustration is that, since we've been in the Champs, we've spent £70m+ on 20-odd players (lost count) and are having to put a LW at LB when the full backs are critical to our system of choice. You couldn't really explain to anyone the incompetence at our club. It’s not ideal and I’m not too happy about it, he’ll give it his best efforts though and he does has certain qualities that might make it work. That said it does seem odd leaving a specialist position to a 33 year old and a converted winger, especially compared to the right side which looks absolutely quality now IMO. I just think it’s unfair to put McClean in a bracket of stealing a living when we have certain players taking the piss out of the club on a daily basis. Completely agree, well said!
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Post by RAF on Jul 21, 2019 12:29:41 GMT
You are correct he is under no obligation as he is not capable. The obligation was for that test Rowett to buy a player for for purpose which he failed to do. H I’d say all of Rowetts other signings were worse and did less last season than McClean. I'm not disputing that, but this discussion is about McClean. H
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 21, 2019 12:30:40 GMT
Jones clearly has a plan and therefore this must be part of it. That being the case, one thing that has to be said for him is that he's highly combatorial. A feature of his personality which if used in conjunction with proper retraining ( tackling and positional sense in particular.. is that all? I hear you saying ) will assist with an effective conversion to left back, hopefully.
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Post by StaffordPotter on Jul 21, 2019 12:31:42 GMT
Why the fuck are we still debating this? If the manager picks him I'll back him and the rest 100%. If you mean debating the fact of his football abilities then theres plenty to go at. Bang average at best and barely contributes much, other than losing possession and sticking a cross in the box 20 feet above the intended target.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:32:45 GMT
I’d say all of Rowetts other signings were worse and did less last season than McClean. I'm not disputing that, but this discussion is about McClean. H So he’s stealing a living despite the fact that everyone else did less? And the fact that him and Allen (and possibly Etebo) are the only ones you can count on to give 100 per cent every game when the rest of them are shirking?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:33:09 GMT
Why the fuck are we still debating this? If the manager picks him I'll back him and the rest 100%. If you mean debating the fact of his football abilities then theres plenty to go at. Bang average at best and barely contributes much, other than losing possession and sticking a cross in the box 20 feet above the intended target. Bollocks.
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Post by RAF on Jul 21, 2019 12:43:50 GMT
I'm not disputing that, but this discussion is about McClean. H So he’s stealing a living despite the fact that everyone else did less? And the fact that him and Allen (and possibly Etebo) are the only ones you can count on to give 100 per cent every game when the rest of them are shirking? I disagree that everyone else did less. What I will say is he's not the only one stealing a living. H
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 12:53:26 GMT
I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw yesterday and it turned out the opposite of what I thought I would see.
Ward - very one tracked, went round the outside time and again with very hit and miss delivery. McClean - very flexible, sometimes went outside, sometimes cut inside with generally decent delivery.
The engine on him is exactly how you would expect.
The key part of this is how he does against teams that will attack us better than Tranmere.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 21, 2019 13:02:33 GMT
I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw yesterday and it turned out the opposite of what I thought I would see. Ward - very one tracked, went round the outside time and again with very hit and miss delivery. McClean - very flexible, sometimes went outside, sometimes cut inside with generally decent delivery. The engine on him is exactly how you would expect. The key part of this is how he does against teams that will attack us better than Tranmere. Your last line is correct. Lets wait and see..........although that approach is beyond comprehension for some.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 21, 2019 13:21:56 GMT
Weird how some of our expert fans can see things from 90 mins of football every week that many professional coaches and managers who work with them for hours & hours each week can’t. Proper head scratcher. The most ridiculous argument ever. What's the point of debating football if you believe every manager 'knows best'?
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 21, 2019 13:36:33 GMT
In this instance is his ability as a football secondary? We have a manager who’s asking him to do a job he’s untrained to do. If he doesn’t succeed it’s on Jones not James. I hope we can all agree that McClean will give it everything.
I don’t personally mind him giving it a go but the risks if it doesn’t work are crazy. The window will be closed and we’re left with Stephen Ward, a player so fit for the role he’s already behind McClean.
I think the left back issue isn’t a McClean issue but a Jones one.
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Post by wuzza on Jul 21, 2019 13:54:34 GMT
Or he has risen above a lot of the rather non-sensical stuff that is thrown his way. To try and reason with some of the people who get on his back about non footballing issues is the ultimate act of folly. He cares enough to tweet. I know - I’m not saying it doesn’t get to him but hopefully he uses it as a positive force to drive him on. On the surface though he has to adopt a robust attitude or it would send him nuts. In an ideal world (or even a sensible world) none of it would even be an issue.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 21, 2019 14:27:52 GMT
He needs to learn to keep his gob shit tbh
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