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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jan 13, 2019 10:47:46 GMT
Was Gary Rowett's hand was forced a little with the style of football we played under him? I know he came with a bit of a reputation for being a bit cautious and defensive minded, but I wonder if being hammered at Leeds and at home to Wigan made him change the approach ge maybe initially wanted to go with? His public criticism of Shawcross was evidence of him being completely exasperated and amazed at the lack of quality in our defence and made him think him think 'actually, our defence is woeful and need all the protection they can get from the midfield'.
Rowett made a lot of mistakes don't get me wrong. The style of play and some of his signings left a hell of a lot to be desired, I just think he was left an incredible pile of ineptitude when he'd have been expecting Premier League quality. The result ended up being a bit of a mess.
We suddenly go to setting up being a bit more expansive yesterday and we concede 3 again, highlighting just how past it and slow in body and mind the likes of Shawcross and Williams are. They need an insane amount of protection which is yo the detriment of our forward play.
I just hope Jones doesn't make the same mistake. He described our squad as being 'wonderful' in his first interviews; yesterday after the game they were downgraded to a 'good group'. They're not even that and I hope he realises this soon before it's too late again.
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Post by A-teen_six_T3 on Jan 13, 2019 10:52:27 GMT
In short...yes
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 10:53:38 GMT
What I’ll never understand is why, when Vydra scored so many goals for him at Derby as a No.10, even if preseason he said he didn’t want to play with a No.10. That was preseason. It was just weird.
Discounting the fact that we clearly do need 11 men to stand behind the ball because our defence is so woeful, I don’t think his hand was forced. He’s been criticised everywhere for being too defensive and cautious and bottled the playoff semi final for Derby last season.
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Post by stokemark on Jan 13, 2019 10:56:46 GMT
Of course it was
Old, slow, ponderous players relegated from the Premier League are the worst possible dynamic to start life in the frenetic Championship with.
Where Rowett went wrong was signing other old, slow ponderous players when he simply needed to spend every penny on players of the opposite make up
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 10:57:50 GMT
My issue with Rowett ended up being that he was just a total prick
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Post by jeffreymelbourne on Jan 13, 2019 10:59:29 GMT
Great post
i have sat on the fence regards Gary Rowett. But after reading this forum since August last year it is like dejavu
the defence is rubbish and Gary Rowett realised this and put in place a system to stop the team being relegated
you should thank your lucky stars he did this and you will find unless we sign 6 new defenders / midfielders Nathan Jones will be in the same situation
he will need to play the same style as Gary Rowett or we will be relegated
thank god we had Gary Rowett to steady the ship
and stop moaning
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Post by robboleek on Jan 13, 2019 11:05:47 GMT
This all day long......
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Post by hanibal7 on Jan 13, 2019 11:05:58 GMT
Was Gary Rowett's hand was forced a little with the style of football we played under him? I know he came with a bit of a reputation for being a bit cautious and defensive minded, but I wonder if being hammered at Leeds and at home to Wigan made him change the approach ge maybe initially wanted to go with? His public criticism of Shawcross was evidence of him being completely exasperated and amazed at the lack of quality in our defence and made him think him think 'actually, our defence is woeful and need all the protection they can get from the midfield'. Rowett made a lot of mistakes don't get me wrong. The style of play and some of his signings left a hell of a lot to be desired, I just think he was left an incredible pile of ineptitude when he'd have been expecting Premier League quality. The result ended up being a bit of a mess. We suddenly go to setting up being a bit more expansive yesterday and we concede 3 again, highlighting just how past it and slow in body and mind the likes of Shawcross and Williams are. They need an insane amount of protection which is yo the detriment of our forward play. I just hope Jones doesn't make the same mistake. He described our squad as being 'wonderful' in his first interviews; yesterday after the game they were downgraded to a 'good group'. They're not even that and I hope he realises this soon before it's too late again. I believe he did, shows what a good manager he was, with a team that's crap |
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jan 13, 2019 11:09:11 GMT
I still think it was right to get rid of Rowett as the atmosphere had become toxic and he was clearly a bit out of his depth. Jones needs as much time as possible to turn it round. Just hope he's got enough of a ruthless streak to get rid of: Shawcross, Williams, Pieters, Allen, McClean, Berahino...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 11:09:38 GMT
Rowett added to the issues. He had a full summer and 50M to spend.
There were no other excuses other than incompetence as to where he ended up on the pitch.
Nathan Jones and future managers will kop for this massively.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jan 13, 2019 11:16:04 GMT
It planned out exactly as my Derby supporter mate said it would. Boring, negative drivel with no plan B. Binary at best.
Then, when the going got tough, he lost his head and made some ridiculously unprofessional comments and there was no going back
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 13, 2019 11:17:45 GMT
Totally agree we cannot attack if we cannot defend.And boy we sure cant defend.It has been obvious for months that its the players who are not up to the job.Regardless of cost or reputation.
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Post by andystokey on Jan 13, 2019 11:20:53 GMT
I agree this squad has abjectly lost the ability to attack effectively for 4 seasons. Pragmatism forced the last two managers hands for sure.
However the point is that Scholes, Cartwright, the board and two managers in successive windows havent addressed the shortfall. In fact ponderous, old unexciting signings have in fact made us worse. Effectively making us even more dependent on midfield covering defensive frailties rather than looking forward.
If NJ follows this pattern instead of breaking it he will go the same way and so will the whole club.
It's not the Premier league and 4 decent defenders should be able to contain 95% of the teams in this league, especially at home. The fact we can't without half the midfield getting involved speaks volumes.
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Post by mozzer on Jan 13, 2019 11:22:33 GMT
Great post i have sat on the fence regards Gary Rowett. But after reading this forum since August last year it is like dejavu the defence is rubbish and Gary Rowett realised this and put in place a system to stop the team being relegated you should thank your lucky stars he did this and you will find unless we sign 6 new defenders / midfielders Nathan Jones will be in the same situation he will need to play the same style as Gary Rowett or we will be relegated thank god we had Gary Rowett to steady the ship and stop moaning Spot on, Rowett was and always will be a manager that employs cautious tactics and formations but........ His hand was forced with the players at his disposal with the recent run of games, the problem I have with Rowett is that he had enough time to see the problems and fix those problems before we were stuck with a closed transfer window. People thought we would do well because when we were relegated we were a premier league team, bollocks, we were a team that had played in the premier league and that's as close as it gets, if Rowett had stopped us going down this year it was a massive result and now the same with Jones, he now knows what a bag of spanners he has inherited as a defence, he has woken up this morning and thought "fuck me I have a big problem, a lot bigger problem than I thought" it's not just the defence, Brentford made us look stupid yesterday at the back but we made ourselves look stupid up front, a total toothless display second half using defensive tactics but also a gutless and toothless display first half using more of van attacking formation, cracking goal though on one of our two shots on target that we managed in the first halve verses Brentford eight shots on target. Fingers crossed Jones can sort his part whilst the club get their own house in order although from his press comments nothing will change as he has said he is happy with the way transfers are run. Oh well we can only hope |
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 13, 2019 11:39:23 GMT
Rowett's job was to improve the play of his existing squad and bring in players who could improve that squad.
Despite being given massive resources to do these two jobs he failed massively at both.
He also alienated his own fan base with his arrogant, insulting press conferences.
Rowett's failure to do his job should not obscure the even worse failure of our director of football who has performed at a similarly ineffective level for a considerably longer period.
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Post by chumley on Jan 13, 2019 11:50:49 GMT
Mates a Derby ST holder and he said they were woeful to watch and a local lad who's derby fan said on P and G that his footy at derby was bad, but worse at Stoke..
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Post by stokecity4life on Jan 13, 2019 11:53:20 GMT
My issue with Rowett ended up being that he was just a total prick This |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jan 13, 2019 12:03:13 GMT
My issue with Rowett ended up being that he was just a total prick This is what happened. He decided to face off and patronise the fans on a number of issues to the point where it fatally affected form over Christmas. His results until that point, a few stupid thrown away points aside, were understandable. He nearly got to the window intact and it was only his ego/ gob that prevented him. |
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Post by GallysGuitar on Jan 13, 2019 12:18:42 GMT
It was all his own making. What was his long term plan? Any forward thinking manager has a defined system and a way of playing and buys players who will bring that to fruition.
I have no doubt Jones is intelligent enough to realise this. His philosophy depends on agile, quick, athletic players so he will target these attributes in the market.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 13, 2019 12:22:27 GMT
Rowett would have stabilised the club & pushed on after the summer.
Not good enough.. we want success, we want it yesterday and it's got to be done playing bojan.. or it's not good enough.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jan 13, 2019 12:26:47 GMT
Rowett added to the issues. He had a full summer and 50M to spend. There were no other excuses other than incompetence as to where he ended up on the pitch. Nathan Jones and future managers will kop for this massively. Yet "the defence is shit" is somehow being used to vindicate him! It was his job to improve the fucker. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 12:29:18 GMT
Rowett added to the issues. He had a full summer and 50M to spend. There were no other excuses other than incompetence as to where he ended up on the pitch. Nathan Jones and future managers will kop for this massively. Yet "the defence is shit" is somehow being used to vindicate him! It was his job to improve the fucker. If you listen to some, they say he was told to ignore the defence, yet he has bought in Williams and Martina and made it worse. God knows what they are costing us in fees and wages. |
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Post by Stoke711 on Jan 13, 2019 12:33:11 GMT
Was Gary Rowett's hand was forced a little with the style of football we played under him? I know he came with a bit of a reputation for being a bit cautious and defensive minded, but I wonder if being hammered at Leeds and at home to Wigan made him change the approach ge maybe initially wanted to go with? His public criticism of Shawcross was evidence of him being completely exasperated and amazed at the lack of quality in our defence and made him think him think 'actually, our defence is woeful and need all the protection they can get from the midfield'. Rowett made a lot of mistakes don't get me wrong. The style of play and some of his signings left a hell of a lot to be desired, I just think he was left an incredible pile of ineptitude when he'd have been expecting Premier League quality. The result ended up being a bit of a mess. We suddenly go to setting up being a bit more expansive yesterday and we concede 3 again, highlighting just how past it and slow in body and mind the likes of Shawcross and Williams are. They need an insane amount of protection which is yo the detriment of our forward play. I just hope Jones doesn't make the same mistake. He described our squad as being 'wonderful' in his first interviews; yesterday after the game they were downgraded to a 'good group'. They're not even that and I hope he realises this soon before it's too late again. Yes his hand was forced but he contributed to it. He had all summer to realise our defence were shocking. He had £50m to put out a team who could play the way he wanted us to. So he's only got himself to blame. If he didn't think players were good enough he should have replaced them. Hopefully Jones will get the backing to do this and realise early on who he needs to replace. Sadly it seems its the majority of them. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 13, 2019 12:34:13 GMT
Yet "the defence is shit" is somehow being used to vindicate him! It was his job to improve the fucker. If you listen to some, they say he was told to ignore the defence, yet he has bought in Williams and Martina and made it worse. God knows what they are costing us in fees and wages. Put it on Rowett all you like because it suits your agenda. Rowett 'Was' told the defence was fine. We had just given Bauer a new contract without the new managers approval. He wanted Chester, he wanted Knudsen. He said he didn't want loan signings yet we ended up with Martina and Williams. |
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Post by starkiller on Jan 13, 2019 12:37:56 GMT
The amount of shit in the squad that can't be removed has given the club constipation.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 13, 2019 12:49:16 GMT
People forget Rowett was appointed in May, not August.
He had loads of time to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the players.
We had pre-season and waiting till almost the start of the season to loan Williams. He spent a fortune on players, but did not buy a single defender*, when we had the worst defence in the Prem and lost Zouma. (* Apart from Federici.) He allowed the defence debacle to happen.
Jones has been with the players for 2 days, had one match, and came up against a Brentford team who are currently at the top of their game and having their best spell of form this season.
People want to rush to judgements and theorising too quickly. Jones needs time to get in players and coach the players.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jan 13, 2019 12:57:27 GMT
Was Gary Rowett's hand was forced a little with the style of football we played under him? I know he came with a bit of a reputation for being a bit cautious and defensive minded, but I wonder if being hammered at Leeds and at home to Wigan made him change the approach ge maybe initially wanted to go with? His public criticism of Shawcross was evidence of him being completely exasperated and amazed at the lack of quality in our defence and made him think him think 'actually, our defence is woeful and need all the protection they can get from the midfield'. Rowett made a lot of mistakes don't get me wrong. The style of play and some of his signings left a hell of a lot to be desired, I just think he was left an incredible pile of ineptitude when he'd have been expecting Premier League quality. The result ended up being a bit of a mess. We suddenly go to setting up being a bit more expansive yesterday and we concede 3 again, highlighting just how past it and slow in body and mind the likes of Shawcross and Williams are. They need an insane amount of protection which is yo the detriment of our forward play. I just hope Jones doesn't make the same mistake. He described our squad as being 'wonderful' in his first interviews; yesterday after the game they were downgraded to a 'good group'. They're not even that and I hope he realises this soon before it's too late again. Yes his hand was forced but he contributed to it. He had all summer to realise our defence were shocking. He had £50m to put out a team who could play the way he wanted us to. So he's only got himself to blame. If he didn't think players were good enough he should have replaced them. Hopefully Jones will get the backing to do this and realise early on who he needs to replace. Sadly it seems its the majority of them. He absolutely has got himself to blame. But had he got in the right defenders, he's probably still be in a job. He wrongly put too much faith in old, slow players living off past glories. When he realised this it was too late, and the style of football had to take an even bigger turn for the worse as he tried to desperately stay in games with basically 7 at the back. |
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Post by Stoke711 on Jan 13, 2019 12:58:18 GMT
Great post i have sat on the fence regards Gary Rowett. But after reading this forum since August last year it is like dejavu the defence is rubbish and Gary Rowett realised this and put in place a system to stop the team being relegated you should thank your lucky stars he did this and you will find unless we sign 6 new defenders / midfielders Nathan Jones will be in the same situation he will need to play the same style as Gary Rowett or we will be relegated thank god we had Gary Rowett to steady the ship and stop moaning Rowett had all summer and £50million to sort this. He signed 10 new players, so I won't be thanking Gary for this rubbish. |
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Post by mermaidsal on Jan 13, 2019 13:01:29 GMT
It's 2019, any manager taking on a new job and someone else's squad is surely going to have spent 50+ hours watching videos and know exactly what the deal is. How they choose to handle the PR is another question, it's rare (sadly perhaps) for a new manager to come in and say what a shower of shit you've - now suddenly we've - got here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 13:04:26 GMT
If you listen to some, they say he was told to ignore the defence, yet he has bought in Williams and Martina and made it worse. God knows what they are costing us in fees and wages. Put it on Rowett all you like because it suits your agenda. Rowett 'Was' told the defence was fine. We had just given Bauer a new contract without the new managers approval. He wanted Chester, he wanted Knudsen. He said he didn't want loan signings yet we ended up with Martina and Williams. Accuse me of anything you want. Agenda, a know nothing idiot. Fill your boots. Facts are facts. Rowett took a bad situation, spent 50M and made it worse. It can't be dressed up any other way. He might not have got all his own way with signings. Show me which manager does. |
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