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Post by stokiejoe on Dec 30, 2018 16:27:25 GMT
Peter Coates does not own Bet365, his daughter abd son do. Denise is the person in harge but indulges her father, brother and husband's live of Stoke.
We shouldn't confuse the two. I would suspect that Denise would only step in if Bet365 was brought into disrepute by the activities of Stoke City.
The problem we have is our management but the benefit we gave us our owners. As they are the same people that is the dilemma we have with their musplaced loyalty to the likes of Rowett and their choice of managers
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Post by Sven on Dec 30, 2018 16:37:44 GMT
Pulis was right when he said, when you've had the relative success we've had, managing expectations is the hardest thing to do.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 30, 2018 16:50:27 GMT
I read somewhere during the Prem era that we were valued at approx 250m. Well the value of this asset must be dropping like a stone. Oh for Denise to be a football fan. £2.50 now plus a dozen oatcakes 😎
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 16:53:11 GMT
Pulis was right when he said, when you've had the relative success we've had, managing expectations is the hardest thing to do. Pulis always managed to keep expectations pretty low
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Post by leicspotter on Dec 30, 2018 17:17:38 GMT
Pulis was right when he said, when you've had the relative success we've had, managing expectations is the hardest thing to do. Pulis always managed to keep expectations pretty low Maybe TP was right though...the bottom 12 (ish) in the Prem are generally too scared to play football, with staying in that league their only true objective every season...and for 3 of them that will end in failure...a very costly failure It really IS all about money nowadays, and the relative successes of the likes of Leicester and Burnley are becoming more infrequent and lead, maybe inevitably to greater fan unrest when they 'revert to type' and go back to fighting relegation. Leicester fans I know stated, when they won the prem, that relegation the following season would be acceptable and that Ranieri had so much "good will in the bank" that he could stay in charge as long as he wanted...that worked out well didn't it? Now they want Puel gone too. Tony Waddington lost the support of the fans, even though he arguably gave us the best football we have ever seen. That's what happens. Expectation rises, usually beyond anything realistic..."if Leicester can do it, why not Stoke"? To be quickly followed by disappointment and anger...ask LMH I'm not saying we shouldn't be ambitious, far from it, but we need to handle the disappointment better and work together to 'come back stronger' At the moment the football is poor, the players are not a "team" and the manager is not popular with the fans...it may get worse before it gets better, but history tells us it WILL get better Keep the faith..as hard as that may be
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Dec 30, 2018 17:30:31 GMT
When we finished 9th the 3rd season some of us could see the decline had started.That was the time for strong management at the very top level not here you are Mark, here's a shed load of money go spend it. Never at that time did I think we've finished 9th 3 years running so we should be looking to go higher. I predicted a relegation fight the following season and it was only late in the season that we pulled away and finished 13th.Again many of us saw the relegation coming last season. If fans had high expectations in those 2 seasons they were living in cuckoo land.. . along with our management/owners We need to be more proactive as a club rather than reactive but I'm not convinced those in charge are capable,in fact they've proven they aren't The decline started the millisecond TP was dismissed. Pulis would have taken us down sooner if he had stayed. The real turning point was when Nzonzi left. Hughes tried to replace him, but never quite managed it.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Dec 30, 2018 17:31:01 GMT
I'm guessing, after us being in the prem for 10 years, that the owners know that to stay there is not good enough no more. Let's say we got up through the play offs, we'd probably have to spend well over 100m just to try and compete at the bottom. Then, lets say we did that, or spent 200m on going up and got mid table again. Then what? Let's say we then spend 300m and finish 9th, then what? The owners now know that the fans would then want more. What another few hundred million? And so it goes on. Now some will then say, why can't you do it by spending a certain amount but with a good manager? Yes you maybe could, but then what happens, or happened? A club with a bigger fan base or a top team then comes in for your best players or manager, and you have to try and do it again. It's what Southampton had to do and now look. Yes that's football, but that's how I felt after 10 years of it. Everyone wants more, more costs absolutely stupid amounts of hundreds of millions. Wolves have done well so far. Let's see where they are in 2 years time never mind 10. The fans will expect champions league by then which means them spending stupid money. Where does it end before expectation out ways realism and you spiral down under the pressure. What are bet365 expected to spend on outgoings? Advertising and wages? I think to succeed at the football compared to the betting requires you having to spend more than what you bring in. Excellent post Totally agree - how many millions do you constantly spend to just survive and be one of the teams making up the numbers. Agree with the wolves comments as well. If they finish 7th what next..there fans are already dreaming of top 4...how much money would they need to spend in the summer just to finish 7th again..no matter how much they spend it will never meet the constant rising aspirations of the fans. Or realistically break into the top 6 season after season.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 30, 2018 18:02:14 GMT
I'm guessing, after us being in the prem for 10 years, that the owners know that to stay there is not good enough no more. Let's say we got up through the play offs, we'd probably have to spend well over 100m just to try and compete at the bottom. Then, lets say we did that, or spent 200m on going up and got mid table again. Then what? Let's say we then spend 300m and finish 9th, then what? The owners now know that the fans would then want more. What another few hundred million? And so it goes on. Now some will then say, why can't you do it by spending a certain amount but with a good manager? Yes you maybe could, but then what happens, or happened? A club with a bigger fan base or a top team then comes in for your best players or manager, and you have to try and do it again. It's what Southampton had to do and now look. Yes that's football, but that's how I felt after 10 years of it. Everyone wants more, more costs absolutely stupid amounts of hundreds of millions. Wolves have done well so far. Let's see where they are in 2 years time never mind 10. The fans will expect champions league by then which means them spending stupid money. Where does it end before expectation out ways realism and you spiral down under the pressure. What are bet365 expected to spend on outgoings? Advertising and wages? I think to succeed at the football compared to the betting requires you having to spend more than what you bring in. Good post apart from only stupid fans would expect our club to spend hundreds of millions, not everyone. If we had spent wisely instead of blowing £50 million on Imbula, Wimmer, and Berahino we might still be in the Prem. Hughes took chances buying Bojan, Muni, Arni, Afellay, Shaq etc. some paid off and some didn't. Spending 8 figure amounts on players who have not played regularly at the top level is very risky.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 30, 2018 18:16:08 GMT
I'm guessing, after us being in the prem for 10 years, that the owners know that to stay there is not good enough no more. Let's say we got up through the play offs, we'd probably have to spend well over 100m just to try and compete at the bottom. Then, lets say we did that, or spent 200m on going up and got mid table again. Then what? Let's say we then spend 300m and finish 9th, then what? The owners now know that the fans would then want more. What another few hundred million? And so it goes on. Now some will then say, why can't you do it by spending a certain amount but with a good manager? Yes you maybe could, but then what happens, or happened? A club with a bigger fan base or a top team then comes in for your best players or manager, and you have to try and do it again. It's what Southampton had to do and now look. Yes that's football, but that's how I felt after 10 years of it. Everyone wants more, more costs absolutely stupid amounts of hundreds of millions. Wolves have done well so far. Let's see where they are in 2 years time never mind 10. The fans will expect champions league by then which means them spending stupid money. Where does it end before expectation out ways realism and you spiral down under the pressure. What are bet365 expected to spend on outgoings? Advertising and wages? I think to succeed at the football compared to the betting requires you having to spend more than what you bring in. Good post apart from only stupid fans would expect our club to spend hundreds of millions, not everyone. If we had spent wisely instead of blowing £50 million on Imbula, Wimmer, and Berahino we might still be in the Prem. Hughes took chances buying Bojan, Muni, Arni, Afellay, Shaq etc. some paid off and some didn't. Spending 8 figure amounts on players who have not played regularly at the top level is very risky. I agree, but if you base it on what's going on with clubs you'd want be around or above like West ham and Everton, you've either got be fantastic, lucky or both for your 15m signings to compete with them if you aren't matching their spending. Can you imagine how much we'd have to spend to just get the defence sorted to compete in the prem never mind the rest of the team and squad. If you aren't going to spend big like those up there, then fans have to lower their expectations.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 30, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
Two companies poles apart?
The bet365 app is so advanced it will blow your mind.
Until we read on the stoke official site that the stoke city recruitment team is so advanced it will blow your mind, we'll still be poles apart.
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Post by Wizbit on Dec 30, 2018 18:49:45 GMT
Peter Coates does not own Bet365, his daughter abd son do. Denise is the person in harge but indulges her father, brother and husband's live of Stoke. We shouldn't confuse the two. I would suspect that Denise would only step in if Bet365 was brought into disrepute by the activities of Stoke City. The problem we have is our management but the benefit we gave us our owners. As they are the same people that is the dilemma we have with their musplaced loyalty to the likes of Rowett and their choice of managers I don’t dispute that joe my question in the original post was why are the same levels of business accumen used in both buisness , as they are obviously very successful and given that bet 365 own everything stoke city it’s fair to say that although not the interested she as the major shareholder of bet 365 actually does own the club like it or not, she chooses to let Peter and John manage it who in turn let Cartwright and scholes run it, So she may hate football but she owns a club weather she likes it or not until bet 365 cease to be involved
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Post by Gifton on Dec 31, 2018 7:54:35 GMT
The difference is Denise Coates...
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UNKLE
Youth Player
Posts: 423
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Post by UNKLE on Dec 31, 2018 9:43:53 GMT
The difference is Denise Coates... She’s got a first in Econometrics hasn’t she? So a bright cookie who took a calculated risk mortgaging the betting shops with the foresight of an online betting presence. Sound business sense.... State of the art apps and technology....number one in their field... As the original poster said the two companies are complete poles apart......so much so it is frightening. Every experience I have with Stoke compared with the many others I’ve dealt with in terms of match day experience and offering are completely second rate:- Ticket office Stewarding Marketing Club shop Accessibility / liaison officers Our position on the pitch is now reflecting our offering off it. How the owners can accept this is astonishing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 10:11:48 GMT
So all in all, we’re better off staying where we are. Rowett in.
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Post by stokiejoe on Dec 31, 2018 10:37:40 GMT
Peter Coates does not own Bet365, his daughter abd son do. Denise is the person in harge but indulges her father, brother and husband's live of Stoke. We shouldn't confuse the two. I would suspect that Denise would only step in if Bet365 was brought into disrepute by the activities of Stoke City. The problem we have is our management but the benefit we gave us our owners. As they are the same people that is the dilemma we have with their musplaced loyalty to the likes of Rowett and their choice of managers I don’t dispute that joe my question in the original post was why are the same levels of business accumen used in both buisness , as they are obviously very successful and given that bet 365 own everything stoke city it’s fair to say that although not the interested she as the major shareholder of bet 365 actually does own the club like it or not, she chooses to let Peter and John manage it who in turn let Cartwright and scholes run it, So she may hate football but she owns a club weather she likes it or not until bet 365 cease to be involved Fair point but she will not interfere until she has to and only then if it is hurting her business.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 31, 2018 12:55:56 GMT
The difference is Denise Coates... She’s got a first in Econometrics hasn’t she? So a bright cookie who took a calculated risk mortgaging the betting shops with the foresight of an online betting presence. Sound business sense.... State of the art apps and technology....number one in their field... As the original poster said the two companies are complete poles apart......so much so it is frightening. Every experience I have with Stoke compared with the many others I’ve dealt with in terms of match day experience and offering are completely second rate:- Ticket office Stewarding Marketing Club shop Accessibility / liaison officers Our position on the pitch is now reflecting our offering off it. How the owners can accept this is astonishing. Both business’s reflect the CEO
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Post by Davef on Dec 31, 2018 13:23:34 GMT
She’s got a first in Econometrics hasn’t she? So a bright cookie who took a calculated risk mortgaging the betting shops with the foresight of an online betting presence. Sound business sense.... State of the art apps and technology....number one in their field... As the original poster said the two companies are complete poles apart......so much so it is frightening. Every experience I have with Stoke compared with the many others I’ve dealt with in terms of match day experience and offering are completely second rate:- Ticket office Stewarding Marketing Club shop Accessibility / liaison officers Our position on the pitch is now reflecting our offering off it. How the owners can accept this is astonishing. Both business’s reflect the CEO Yet the two people who've been CEO's of the mega successful bet365 are perfectly happy with the CEO running their football club. How strange.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 31, 2018 13:32:08 GMT
Both business’s reflect the CEO Yet the two people who've been CEO's of the mega successful bet365 are perfectly happy with the CEO running their football club. How strange. Happy or not the business’s like any other anywhere in the world , reflect the performance of the CEO , assuming he or she is contributing anything for their £ xx salary
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Post by Davef on Dec 31, 2018 13:42:49 GMT
Yet the two people who've been CEO's of the mega successful bet365 are perfectly happy with the CEO running their football club. How strange. Happy or not the business’s like any other anywhere in the world , reflect the performance of the CEO , assuming he or she is contributing anything for their £ xx salary Remember that time when you were falling over yourself to heap praise on Scholes when we finished ninth three seasons running? No, me neither. You're a walking, talking contradiction. It's an often used phrase that football is like no other business. The Stoke City CEO will have responsibilities that the owners are clearly happy with him doing. He certainly isn't responsible for the football team creating next to no chances in a game against Bolton.
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Post by starkiller on Dec 31, 2018 15:05:29 GMT
Both funded by mugs.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 31, 2018 19:22:14 GMT
Happy or not the business’s like any other anywhere in the world , reflect the performance of the CEO , assuming he or she is contributing anything for their £ xx salary Remember that time when you were falling over yourself to heap praise on Scholes when we finished ninth three seasons running? No, me neither. You're a walking, talking contradiction. It's an often used phrase that football is like no other business. The Stoke City CEO will have responsibilities that the owners are clearly happy with him doing. He certainly isn't responsible for the football team creating next to no chances in a game against Bolton. So you want to give him praise for the team finishing ninth but absolve him for responsibility for where we are now and then say I’m a contradiction 😉 happy new year by the way .👍
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Post by Davef on Dec 31, 2018 21:51:52 GMT
Remember that time when you were falling over yourself to heap praise on Scholes when we finished ninth three seasons running? No, me neither. You're a walking, talking contradiction. It's an often used phrase that football is like no other business. The Stoke City CEO will have responsibilities that the owners are clearly happy with him doing. He certainly isn't responsible for the football team creating next to no chances in a game against Bolton. So you want to give him praise for the team finishing ninth but absolve him for responsibility for where we are now and then say I’m a contradiction 😉 happy new year by the way .👍 I didn't praise him for his contribution to our ninth placed finishes and I'm not going to damn him for where we are now. To me, what goes on tactically on the pitch - which is all I'm interested in by the way - isn't down to Tony Scholes. Happy New Year to you as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 22:08:03 GMT
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Post by cheshirepotter on Jan 1, 2019 8:17:51 GMT
When we finished 9th the 3rd season some of us could see the decline had started.That was the time for strong management at the very top level not here you are Mark, here's a shed load of money go spend it. Never at that time did I think we've finished 9th 3 years running so we should be looking to go higher. I predicted a relegation fight the following season and it was only late in the season that we pulled away and finished 13th.Again many of us saw the relegation coming last season. If fans had high expectations in those 2 seasons they were living in cuckoo land.. . along with our management/owners We need to be more proactive as a club rather than reactive but I'm not convinced those in charge are capable,in fact they've proven they aren't The decline started the millisecond TP was dismissed. So, so right march4. As ever, it just took a year or two to break through to the surface. And when it does you then realise the underlying rot. (Like the rust in my old Ford Capri)
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Post by greenhoff on Jan 1, 2019 9:06:08 GMT
The difference is Denise Coates... She’s got a first in Econometrics hasn’t she? So a bright cookie who took a calculated risk mortgaging the betting shops with the foresight of an online betting presence. Sound business sense.... State of the art apps and technology....number one in their field... As the original poster said the two companies are complete poles apart......so much so it is frightening. Every experience I have with Stoke compared with the many others I’ve dealt with in terms of match day experience and offering are completely second rate:- Ticket office Stewarding Marketing Club shop Accessibility / liaison officers Our position on the pitch is now reflecting our offering off it. How the owners can accept this is astonishing. Completely and utterly agree. Off the pitch we're second rate. Take the club shop its an absolute joke. Yet Bunny from Duck magazine can access a range of tee shirts, hats, badges etc that are absolutely fantastic. Dunna get me started on the 150 th Celebrations. Completely small time.
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