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Post by santy on Dec 5, 2018 11:00:08 GMT
What its actually showing more than anything is that perhaps this move clearly wasn't enough. Whether you agree or disagree, the likely argument to come from it in time is that it's not benefiting under 21's to get just the odd game here and there against these teams. They need to be playing them week in, week out will be the next stage with B Teams.
I think the Spain argument will be brought up again in due course, but in actuality I think the big few teams in Spain have struggled to bring through players in the last few years. It just seems more like a good period of talent coming through was perhaps mistaken for the B team set-up.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 5, 2018 11:37:07 GMT
The result last night highlighted to me why these players need to go out on loan and experience REAL FOOTBALL. Like was said in commentary many times, our players will not have been tested physically at all before last night, that and playing in front of proper crowds are essential in a players development imo and our players just don't get exposed to it.
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Post by citynickscfc on Dec 5, 2018 21:43:01 GMT
The result last night highlighted to me why these players need to go out on loan and experience REAL FOOTBALL. Like was said in commentary many times, our players will not have been tested physically at all before last night, that and playing in front of proper crowds are essential in a players development imo and our players just don't get exposed to it. Those that do are those who have a chance to make it in the football League. Most fail. Let it sink in, the likes of Gallagher, Moult, Shotton litter this league and have run a mockery of us. These are players who we had 10 years ago.... Progress. Seriously, we stink. From the kids to the first team. 6 wins.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 6, 2018 6:13:15 GMT
No
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Post by andylgr on Dec 6, 2018 11:37:42 GMT
The result last night highlighted to me why these players need to go out on loan and experience REAL FOOTBALL. Like was said in commentary many times, our players will not have been tested physically at all before last night, that and playing in front of proper crowds are essential in a players development imo and our players just don't get exposed to it. Also being around a club and training with men and being exposed to everything that goes with being in an environmewnt like that, it really is dog eat dog and whilst these players are hidden away in academies, training with each other and then playing tippy tappy possession football they won't break in to our first team. They need to be playing in games where its not only physical but relentless, players in the lower leagues aren't on fat contracts that will make them for life, their financial livelihoods are at stake and thats a totally different world than they're in now. The games mean something too. How you approach those games where the stakes are high is completely different to safe possession football with no intensity or intent. They need to be out quickly on loan to do something with their careers, even if it means going L2 or conference. All those young Vale lads that played us the other night have been exposed to that. No messing around, tackles going in, willing to run through a wall for the shirt, you could tell they are ahead of ours in that regard. I think academy football doesn't instill that in players, only playing proper games will.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 8, 2018 13:39:18 GMT
I have long held a view that once you are 18 you need to be playing against men most of the time , I have seen very little evidence to challenge that view . Vale were always going to be up for tonight with so much being made if the game and the result speaks for itself on the academy issue as does the lack of any first team players . A good number of players that play senior football regularly from the age of 18 are physically wrecked by their early 30s. They are still developing physically at that age and even perfectly fair solid challenges from gnarled old pros takes its toll. The club's who do bring on youngsters do it very carefully these days - and for good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 14:46:04 GMT
With a 6-0 win by the u-18 you could certainly say the academy has something going for itself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 14:52:24 GMT
I have long held a view that once you are 18 you need to be playing against men most of the time , I have seen very little evidence to challenge that view . Vale were always going to be up for tonight with so much being made if the game and the result speaks for itself on the academy issue as does the lack of any first team players . That was probably an adequate view 50 years ago, as you indicate by saying "long". But with the changes in society very few - there are exceptions like Rooney who was ready at 16 but then he was burned out by the time he was 29 - 18 year olds are fully grown men. They haven't worked in the mines, potteries, or factories, or for a large part, done anything more physically challenging than working out in the local fitness center.
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Post by silverdollar on Dec 10, 2018 11:19:40 GMT
To answer the question that this thread title poses I would categorically say that the Stoke Academy has produced numerous young players who have gone on to play at a Senior Professional level as well as at International level. In my mind the major problem has been the reluctance of our first team managers to actually risk playing young players when the failure of first team would have serious consequences. Only this season we have seen ex-academy players playing for teams that are above us in the league. Keogh(Derby) and Shotton(Middlesboro) are presently above us. Here are a few other names that might ring bells; Commons, Henry, Vass, Moult, Rooney and Dickinson. There are numerous others! Including local lads Wilkinson and Patterson.
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Post by robinplumpton on Dec 11, 2018 23:50:20 GMT
As someone who has been a member of the Potters Foundation since it’s inception...I would say no , it’s not working. Ok so I only pay £10 per month, but for all the months and all the years I have been paying it, it just seems like a waste of money. Loyalty or stupidity won’t stop me paying, because I feel I am doing my bit for our club. It would be nice to think that it made a difference but actuality seems to prove otherwise. It would be nice if those who originally then subsequently took and take my money couldgive me areason to continue beyond blind loyalty. However, the cynic says, I signed up and didn’t cancel, so am taken for granted. Will continue to do so with blindloyalty. Maybe before I die a local lad will get a chance😀
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Post by TexasPotter on Dec 12, 2018 0:27:15 GMT
Nah, under Rowett's management has two players now that can play in the championship i.e Campbell and Edwards but they avoid them like the plague. Says it all really.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 8:02:40 GMT
It will never work when players in the last few months of their career are getting time ahead of hungry young players craving to carve out a career.
We prefer experienced ageing pros being shit than risking an unproven youngster who might perform.
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 12, 2018 8:12:12 GMT
The only way it will work is when Uncle Peter turns the taps off a bit more and we have no option other than to blood youngsters. By then we will be in a right mess of a club.
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Post by nott1 on Dec 12, 2018 12:34:29 GMT
Friend of mine has a son who has just stepped up to ITF futures tennis tournaments, and he has improved dramatically in just a few weeks. Must be a lesson to be learned there!
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Post by lifelong on Dec 12, 2018 12:40:07 GMT
You want young players in but you also slag Rowett when he doesn't get results. You cant make him accountable and them ask him to take risks!
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Post by bhp on Dec 12, 2018 18:10:33 GMT
Winning 2-0 against bottom of the league side at home. 5 minutes left. 18 year old midfielder on the bench. On comes Darren Fletcher.
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Post by magwitch on Dec 14, 2018 17:34:12 GMT
We’ve got players who are 20/21 who haven’t played a first team game in their career. They’re just stagnating, look at Shelton what’s the point? Who is Shelton? Never heard of him.
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Post by knyperstokie on Dec 14, 2018 18:30:48 GMT
Going back to my youth (quite a few years ago) a large number of players were local lads - at a guess 50%?
Didn't have fancy training ground, just a desire to play
The good old days - not forgetting the magic sponge:
XbCFTDG6wPxJHB7ejWDcZ7nH
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 19:37:21 GMT
We’ve got players who are 20/21 who haven’t played a first team game in their career. They’re just stagnating, look at Shelton what’s the point? Who is Shelton? Never heard of him. Thanks for asking 7 days later. If I told you it’s clearly a typo/spell check error I’m sure you can figure the rest out out....
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Dec 14, 2018 21:24:31 GMT
Academy - complete and utter waste of money. Citing Edwards as a success is like saying Mrs. May’s Brussels negotiations are a success. A decent League One player in my opinion. Three years ago Ollie Shenton was supposed to be the next big thing and look how that’s worked out. What else how we to show for the £millions invested? Like I say waste of money, money that should be sensibly invested in the first team
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 15, 2018 8:49:40 GMT
What is surprising is that this question is posed after nearly 10 years of abject failure. A vision from the owner to make us self sufficient that has produced almost nothing.
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Post by lordb on Dec 15, 2018 9:09:36 GMT
Academy - complete and utter waste of money. Citing Edwards as a success is like saying Mrs. May’s Brussels negotiations are a success. A decent League One player in my opinion. Three years ago Ollie Shenton was supposed to be the next big thing and look how that’s worked out. What else how we to show for the £millions invested? Like I say waste of money, money that should be sensibly invested in the first team Edwards is a decent Championship player, that's worth what £5m? Get two of those and it's paid for it self.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Dec 15, 2018 13:10:22 GMT
Academy - complete and utter waste of money. Citing Edwards as a success is like saying Mrs. May’s Brussels negotiations are a success. A decent League One player in my opinion. Three years ago Ollie Shenton was supposed to be the next big thing and look how that’s worked out. What else how we to show for the £millions invested? Like I say waste of money, money that should be sensibly invested in the first team Edwards is a decent Championship player, that's worth what £5m? Get two of those and it's paid for it self. Please submit your list of clubs who would be willing to fork out £5 million for Tom Edwards. In any case that’s only one and that’s a shocking indictment in itself after 10 or more years of money down the plug hole. Wasn’t the last decent player to come through our ‘youth system’ Kris Commons? I dare say with some confidence as well that money poured into this failed academy far exceeds the £10 million you suggest, more likely four or five times that amount everything included. Money that (assuming a decent recruitment team 😂) could have been invested in two or three high class players probably ensuring our Premier League status!
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 15, 2018 13:15:57 GMT
It won’t work because all the big clubs cherry pick the best players as they have a better scouting network. Our best chance is if we get a late developer. The likes of Phil Foden and the lads at Derby just don’t slip through the big clubs net.
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Post by rawli on Dec 15, 2018 13:20:05 GMT
Friend of mine has a son who has just stepped up to ITF futures tennis tournaments, and he has improved dramatically in just a few weeks. Must be a lesson to be learned there! Get them all playing tennis?
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