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Post by musik on Nov 11, 2018 9:21:47 GMT
Our (shots on target) recently are: Norwich (A) 0-1 (2) Birmingham (H) 0-1 (3) Sheff U (A) 1-1 (4) Bristol C (A) 0-1 (3) Boro (H) 0-0 (1) Forest (A) 0-0 (2) 75 points will we land on if we continue this way. Will it be enough to reach the play offs? I don't think so. We'll need 78.
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Post by eriksson74 on Nov 11, 2018 9:31:04 GMT
]We couldn’t carry on conceding goals for fun like that though Dave.Yes we’ve gone the other way to an extent but he’s got to build a solid foundation for us to win games surely? What did you think to the Forest support around us today?I thought they were loud and very vocal especially with the Mist rolling in from the Trent[/quote]
That is how I see it, defence is the weak link by far and as such playing a way to protect it and limit/reduce the poor goals we were conceeding at start of season. I think he thought we had enough up top and we were scoring but had to score 3 to get a point at least!
I suspect he wants to keep us in touch, add a couple of centre half in Jan and then release the defensive shape and take the game to the opposition more.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 11, 2018 9:33:28 GMT
If he was at swansea or west brom, based on performances and results he would have been sacked right now.
Not good enough. The problem is home performances. Huge pressure on the next home game
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Post by thehoof on Nov 11, 2018 11:55:30 GMT
Call me miserable but it never felt like a promotion season and I think that was reflected by our crowds which didn't touch 20,000 until about 4 games from end of season. A record low tally for automatic promotion probably tells a story as well. I would much rather we play as we did at Rotherham and sheff wed than how we've done in any game since if I'm honest. We couldn’t carry on conceding goals for fun like that though Dave.Yes we’ve gone the other way to an extent but he’s got to build a solid foundation for us to win games surely? What did you think to the Forest support around us today?I thought they were loud and very vocal especially with the Mist rolling in from the Trent While that (conceding goals) is true, you can’t win without attacking and 5 shots on target in the last 3 games requires a great conversion rate if we expect to win. To claw 10 or 11 points back on teams, we have to expect those teams to struggle while we up our game- not very likely. We may scrape into the top 10 by the end of the season but for £50m in the Championship is that really good enough when there is no excitement on offer at the games either?
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Post by pottersrule on Nov 11, 2018 23:24:22 GMT
After last season you considered us to be pre season favourites? We were the bookies’ 7-2 preseason favorite. I know that but my question was why were they his after the way we performed last season.They certainly weren't mine.
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Post by leoncort on Nov 12, 2018 0:24:12 GMT
Personally I think considering our bad start and our perceived upturn in results. Rowett has been desperate not to lose ground on the leaders whilst we’ve been on the run of fixtures since Norwich. I think in his mind if we can stop these teams extending their lead against us and perhaps nick a win, he fancies himself closing the gap when we get on a more favourable run of fixtures. Very Mourhino llike. Let’s see if it works. This is stupid, surely every 2-3 games you are likely to come up against a team in the top 10. To be at the top you have to beat the best, not try and catch up with them. It’s a losers attitude to try and mitigate and stay close to teams, we should be setting up with direct wingers and swarming the opposition with numbers in attack. But we’re shit scared to lose so set up to avoid defeat, we shouldn’t be scared of anyone in this league and it’s costing us big time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 9:53:45 GMT
I haven't been impressed with a team in this league yet. Theyre all pretty poor yet we still don't look like we will score.
Neither winger produces much. We have an isolated forward, Allen isnt exactly creative and Woods spends more time next to the centre halves.
It's a tedious affair of sidewards and backwards passing with little creativity.
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Post by redstriper on Nov 13, 2018 11:04:10 GMT
I wanted to see the back of TP due to the style of football so I get the point.
But GR has had to tighten us up, its only 5 games of binary not two seasons worth and its a necessary phase in my book.
He was getting dogs abuse on here because we were too open and leaking goals so faced with a tough run of fixtures he's battened down the hatches to keep us in games and its worked.
If its still like this in March I'll join the moaners, but meantime a bit of patience is warranted in my view.
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Post by lifelong on Nov 13, 2018 11:15:35 GMT
pre-season favorites was purely that people bet more money on us, nothing to do with how good we actually are
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 13, 2018 11:29:16 GMT
I wanted to see the back of TP due to the style of football so I get the point. But GR has had to tighten us up, its only 5 games of binary not two seasons worth and its a necessary phase in my book. He was getting dogs abuse on here because we were too open and leaking goals so faced with a tough run of fixtures he's battened down the hatches to keep us in games and its worked. If its still like this in March I'll join the moaners, but meantime a bit of patience is warranted in my view. What level of patience though? If we approach the next six games as we've approached the previous six, we will severely struggle to get the 9 points we got out of those games. The play offs will then be a pipe dream. We're setting up like a team whose natural home is the lower leagues and just hanging in games is justifiable. It isn't justifiable in the slightest, it's actually pretty embarrassing.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 11:58:30 GMT
I wanted to see the back of TP due to the style of football so I get the point. But GR has had to tighten us up, its only 5 games of binary not two seasons worth and its a necessary phase in my book. He was getting dogs abuse on here because we were too open and leaking goals so faced with a tough run of fixtures he's battened down the hatches to keep us in games and its worked. If its still like this in March I'll join the moaners, but meantime a bit of patience is warranted in my view. What level of patience though? If we approach the next six games as we've approached the previous six, we will severely struggle to get the 9 points we got out of those games. The play offs will then be a pipe dream. We're setting up like a team whose natural home is the lower leagues and just hanging in games is justifiable. It isn't justifiable in the slightest, it's actually pretty embarrassing. Given the choice, who would you bring in? Assuming you don't think Rowett can turn it around.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 13, 2018 12:13:50 GMT
What level of patience though? If we approach the next six games as we've approached the previous six, we will severely struggle to get the 9 points we got out of those games. The play offs will then be a pipe dream. We're setting up like a team whose natural home is the lower leagues and just hanging in games is justifiable. It isn't justifiable in the slightest, it's actually pretty embarrassing. Given the choice, who would you br bring in? Assuming you don't think Rowett can turn it around. I'd have a look at the Wigan manager myself mate.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 13, 2018 13:56:21 GMT
Just about sums up how I feel. People will say it's a good point away from home but home and away we are setting up not to lose rather than to win. They were absolutely shite yet once again we are indebted to butland and two simply stunning saves to get us a point and once again the substitutions made us worse. I'm finding it desperately difficult to warm to rowett and his approach to guiding the most expensive squad in the league to a tilt at promotion. imho we're STILL a squad recovering from Hughes losing his way and leaving players in mid-air, Lambo trying unsuccessfully to rally them and Rowett beginning this season expecting them to be in very much better shape than they really were. It's going to take longer than this to fix. It just is. Yes Gary's lowered our expectations, and his own I strongly suspect. I can't see any other way anyone can make this work right now. This is what rebuilding feels like. If we keep going in this direction, by the business end of the season yes we should be looking to take the game to sides like Forest away. But we have to trust ourselves to do the basics first, otherwise we'll just be as tragically flakey as Sparky left us. They are football players who need managing. You have mentioned 3 managers all implicated in our recent and continuing decline. Of the 3, Rowett is worst. It wont matter how much time you give him, he will NOT get us promoted and is more likely to send us in the opposite direction. This is only my opinion, but I challenge anyone to present evidence to the contrary.
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 13, 2018 14:11:55 GMT
We have two home games in four days next, in which we must show far more attacking intent against two teams that have been playing pretty well of late.
Rowett, like many managers after a run of leaking a few silly goals, focussed on shutting up shop and drying up the goals against. Almost inevitably, this also starved us of chances at the other end, and he now has to try to redress the balance and get us attacking without leaving the back door ajar. How, and if, he manages this could define how our season goes from hereon in.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 13, 2018 14:12:41 GMT
Our approach in games is as though we've just come up to this level, not come down and it's unacceptable.
I'm fed up of watching Stoke City play scared football.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 15:20:33 GMT
imho we're STILL a squad recovering from Hughes losing his way and leaving players in mid-air, Lambo trying unsuccessfully to rally them and Rowett beginning this season expecting them to be in very much better shape than they really were. It's going to take longer than this to fix. It just is. Yes Gary's lowered our expectations, and his own I strongly suspect. I can't see any other way anyone can make this work right now. This is what rebuilding feels like. If we keep going in this direction, by the business end of the season yes we should be looking to take the game to sides like Forest away. But we have to trust ourselves to do the basics first, otherwise we'll just be as tragically flakey as Sparky left us. They are football players who need managing. You have mentioned 3 managers all implicated in our recent and continuing decline. Of the 3, Rowett is worst. It wont matter how much time you give him, he will NOT get us promoted and is more likely to send us in the opposite direction. This is only my opinion, but I challenge anyone to present evidence to the contrary.Burton Albion were 17th when he took over at the end of the 2011/12 season, they finished 6th and 4th respectively before losing in the play offs both seasons. Birmingham were bottom with a record of W2 D5 L7 when he took over from Lee Clark, he got them to 10th that season, then 10th the following season and they were 7th when he was sacked at Xmas. Derby were 10th just before the end of the 2016/17 when he was sacked, they finished 6th the following season and lost in the play offs Not sure where the evidence is to suggest he's more likely to send us in the opposite direction is to be honest? I'm certainly not defending him but the evidence shows he's improved every club he's been too, so maybe just maybe he needs time to turn around the failures of the past couple of seasons.......
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Post by chell_rosey on Nov 13, 2018 17:43:57 GMT
We have two home games in four days next, in which we must show far more attacking intent against two teams that have been playing pretty well of late. Rowett, like many managers after a run of leaking a few silly goals, focussed on shutting up shop and drying up the goals against. Almost inevitably, this also starved us of chances at the other end, and he now has to try to redress the balance and get us attacking without leaving the back door ajar. How, and if, he manages this could define how our season goes from hereon in. But this IS his style of play and he won't change. Expect more of the same.
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 13, 2018 18:02:49 GMT
We have two home games in four days next, in which we must show far more attacking intent against two teams that have been playing pretty well of late. Rowett, like many managers after a run of leaking a few silly goals, focussed on shutting up shop and drying up the goals against. Almost inevitably, this also starved us of chances at the other end, and he now has to try to redress the balance and get us attacking without leaving the back door ajar. How, and if, he manages this could define how our season goes from hereon in. But this IS his style of play and he won't change. Expect more of the same. Then he needs to sign and play players than fit that style. We must sign a big athletic, physical striker who can ruffle feathers up front, heads a ball well and holds the ball up to bring the midfielders into play. Afobe is not that man.
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Post by loosestools on Nov 13, 2018 18:56:30 GMT
But this IS his style of play and he won't change. Expect more of the same. Then he needs to sign and play players than fit that style. We must sign a big athletic, physical striker who can ruffle feathers up front, heads a ball well and holds the ball up to bring the midfielders into play. Afobe is not that man. mmmm. On paper he is the one you would go for. I still blame lack of service, he very well could go through a purple patch, confidence and all that. He could not cut it at the Prem level, agreed but at Wolves he was very good. If nobody gave him the service I have seen him actually go and get the ball himself and score on his own. We seem to be in some sort of straight jacket.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 13, 2018 22:19:22 GMT
I wanted to see the back of TP due to the style of football so I get the point. But GR has had to tighten us up, its only 5 games of binary not two seasons worth and its a necessary phase in my book. He was getting dogs abuse on here because we were too open and leaking goals so faced with a tough run of fixtures he's battened down the hatches to keep us in games and its worked. If its still like this in March I'll join the moaners, but meantime a bit of patience is warranted in my view. I don't think we have looked particularly open since woods arrived even though initially we still conceded goals. Our goalkeeper wasn't pulling off multiple match saving saves nor were we gifting loads of clear cut chances. We were conceding due to stupid, inexplicable individual errors. In the main, I felt we were playing well and not getting results our performances deserved. Of late, the stupid inexplicable errors have disappeared and despite approaching games far more defensively than we were, we are gifting chances and are indebted to 3 consecutive man of the match performances from our goalkeeper to win us points. We didn't need to change how we were playing because we were playing well. We were never under the cosh. We just needed to cut out stupid errors. Did we really need to go all out defence to stop those errors? I don't believe we did. It is this that I'm struggling with. It seems so unnecessary.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 8:06:25 GMT
If we had just been promoted to this league last season, I’d still be expecting better performances / results than we have had.
Given we’ve chucked £20+ million in the transfer window then again this January what was a premier league team last season, I personally think it’s a terrible how we are performing.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 14, 2018 9:03:14 GMT
We're not testing the keeper often enough, home or away. Our (shots on target) recently are: Norwich (A) 0-1 (2) Birmingham (H) 0-1 (3) Sheff U (A) 1-1 (4) Bristol C (A) 0-1 (3) Boro (H) 0-0 (1) Forest (A) 0-0 (2) So, over the last 6 games we are averaging 2.5 shots on target per game. You aren't scoring many and thus not winning many with stats like that, and given Afobe isn't missing many clear cut chances per game it pretty much tells it's own story. We've obviously tightened up at the back a bit, and some of that is down to an increase in form of Butland, but it's at a massive expense of our attacking threat. Given what we've spent it isn't anywhere near good enough. It really isn't. Some perspective needed - 4 of those teams are in the top 7 and the other two were in form when we met them and 4 out of 6 were away games. Given where we were defensively the improvements in this department have to be applauded and do suggest an ability to identify problems and find a solution. He seems to be building his understanding of the squad having clearly been blindsided by the weaknesses in our defence and there's no doubt our defence's lack of pace limits our ability to be aggressive going forward. Hopefully he can use this international break to improve the midfield and attack. We have tough tough but winnable home games and then a relatively easy run, Villa apart. If we can stay in contention then we can use January to improve the weaknesses. He deserves time to undertake the surgery needed
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 14, 2018 9:10:12 GMT
The football is shit. The results are shit.
We should be the man city of this league. The manager has been backed far more than any other.
Yet again, this club and it's supporters struggle with anything other than a small time attitude and small time mentality.
Rowett was a small time appointment. This club doesn't want to be a big club, many of its supporters don't want success.
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Post by redstriper on Nov 15, 2018 15:04:49 GMT
The football is shit. The results are shit. We should be the man city of this league. The manager has been backed far more than any other. Yet again, this club and it's supporters struggle with anything other than a small time attitude and small time mentality. Rowett was a small time appointment. This club doesn't want to be a big club, many of its supporters don't want success. How do you know, have you asked them ? pretty daft statement imo
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Post by adi on Nov 15, 2018 15:13:11 GMT
imho we're STILL a squad recovering from Hughes losing his way and leaving players in mid-air, Lambo trying unsuccessfully to rally them and Rowett beginning this season expecting them to be in very much better shape than they really were. It's going to take longer than this to fix. It just is. Yes Gary's lowered our expectations, and his own I strongly suspect. I can't see any other way anyone can make this work right now. This is what rebuilding feels like. If we keep going in this direction, by the business end of the season yes we should be looking to take the game to sides like Forest away. But we have to trust ourselves to do the basics first, otherwise we'll just be as tragically flakey as Sparky left us. They are football players who need managing. You have mentioned 3 managers all implicated in our recent and continuing decline. Of the 3, Rowett is worst. It wont matter how much time you give him, he will NOT get us promoted and is more likely to send us in the opposite direction. This is only my opinion, but I challenge anyone to present evidence to the contrary. Is the league position of the teams he’s managed evidence enough?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 16, 2018 10:42:13 GMT
Our approach in games is as though we've just come up to this level, not come down and it's unacceptable. I'm fed up of watching Stoke City play scared football. The thing I find most unacceptable is fans of ex-Premiership sides pouncing about proclaiming how it's unacceptable that these lower order sides don't do what is expected and bow down to our inherent superiority. It's all a bit Arsenal.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 16, 2018 11:28:48 GMT
Our approach in games is as though we've just come up to this level, not come down and it's unacceptable. I'm fed up of watching Stoke City play scared football. The thing I find most unacceptable is fans of ex-Premiership sides pouncing about proclaiming how it's unacceptable that these lower order sides don't do what is expected and bow down to our inherent superiority. It's all a bit Arsenal. I'm not on about other teams, I'm on about our approach.
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Post by questionable on Nov 16, 2018 11:42:05 GMT
An above post is pretty much spot on as I’ve yet to see anything that impresses me in this league, in fact it’s quite a dire standard. Yet we’ve stagnated to such a level that I no longer miss going to the games.
Opposition teams always get better opportunities to score against us whereby we’re making all out defensive efforts rather than scoring.
All in all it’s pretty shit to put up with given the players/finances at our disposal.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 16, 2018 12:21:26 GMT
The thing I find most unacceptable is fans of ex-Premiership sides pouncing about proclaiming how it's unacceptable that these lower order sides don't do what is expected and bow down to our inherent superiority. It's all a bit Arsenal. I'm not on about other teams, I'm on about our approach. Apologies for my mistake It depends how you see our approach. If that's all we do for the rest of the season I'd agree with you - it will be dull and we won't make the playoffs. I may be wrong but I see our current approach as a temporary necessity to turn a soft touch into a side that is tough to beat. The next step - which is essential for us to be genuine promotion candidates is to be more expansive and win games by more than the odd goal. Whether we can do that remains to be seen. I just don't think you can go from the state we were at the start of the season to promotion candidates without first doing the basics properly - it may be dull but it's an essential part of our development as a team that compete in this league. My main gripe is with supporters who think we don't have to earn the right to promotion and see it as a birth right as a relatively rich ex-Premiership side. As I said apologies if I misrepresented you view on the situation
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 16, 2018 13:13:18 GMT
I'm not on about other teams, I'm on about our approach. Apologies for my mistake It depends how you see our approach. If that's all we do for the rest of the season I'd agree with you - it will be dull and we won't make the playoffs. I may be wrong but I see our current approach as a temporary necessity to turn a soft touch into a side that is tough to beat. The next step - which is essential for us to be genuine promotion candidates is to be more expansive and win games by more than the odd goal. Whether we can do that remains to be seen. I just don't think you can go from the state we were at the start of the season to promotion candidates without first doing the basics properly - it may be dull but it's an essential part of our development as a team that compete in this league. My main gripe is with supporters who think we don't have to earn the right to promotion and see it as a birth right as a relatively rich ex-Premiership side. As I said apologies if I misrepresented you view on the situation Managers generally don't change their spots though. It's rarely a case of 'we'll do this for now', that's promised but rarely delivered. For what it's worth I think we are trying to attack at home against defensive sides - we just haven't invested in anyone who can actually create anything bar maybe, at a push Ince. We have Bojan but the manager isn't fussed about him.
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