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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2018 12:52:57 GMT
I work in undergraduate education and if I didn't care what students thought or said I'd be sunk without trace. And occasionally, student representation have been incredibly helpful. Other businesses look to their client base, it's nothing new. If a footballer manager states on record that he doesn't care what supporters think he's a fool. Too right, skip! I'd be sunk without a trace in my professional if I didn't care what those who pay my wages (clients in my world, fans in his) thought about the job I was doing for them, and tried to make them happy, or placate them if they were not. I have to ensure that my reputation goes before me, that clients tell their contacts how good I was to them - it is how I bring in business. Now, mugs like us are more of a captive customer base, most of us will support Stoke no matter what turgid rubbish is served up each Saturday afternoon (and several weekday nights), but that does not mean that our views, feelings, emotions, hopes, whatever you want to call them, should be totally disregarded. We were here long before you, sunshine, and will be here long after you are gone from OUR club. Thinnest of thin ice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 12:59:59 GMT
To be honest I genuinely like listening to what he says. He's got a decent rapport and he's clearly knowledgable about what's happening on the pitch. I may disagree about some stuff, mostly McClean. But he's said in that presser that we need to start creating some more chances and going for it earlier. Which is exactly what everyone has been spouting after Tuesday.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 26, 2018 13:12:22 GMT
To be honest I genuinely like listening to what he says. He's got a decent rapport and he's clearly knowledgable about what's happening on the pitch. I may disagree about some stuff, mostly McClean. But he's said in that presser that we need to start creating some more chances and going for it earlier. Which is exactly what everyone has been spouting after Tuesday. They can obviously go for it when behind as we’ve seen numerous occasions this season. The question is why don’t they adopt that ethos/approach earlier, the manager is surely responsible for setting out the playing style
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 26, 2018 13:17:23 GMT
I don't have any issue with his performance a PCs; he's better than our last 2 managers, although clearly has lots of nervous twitches/coughs/mannerisms. He generally speaks well.
I don't expect him to say anything that will help the opposition or demoralise his own players. So he will naturally deflect questions.
Saying he doesn't listen what fans say is a mistake. It may be truthful, but the question should have been answered more respectfully to the fans views, such as he does not have time to take any notice, or he takes more notice of what his players and staff say than the fans. He does not need to make enemies.
He clearly has to do some bullxxxx, all managers do, but be careful not to be found out or obviously wrong, e.g. yes we have stolen points, and others have got points off us they didn't deserve, it's all about points won, but performances do matter. Saying Birmingham nicked the points off us is wrong, they had a game plan to yield possession and hit us on the break. It worked; in fact it worked so well they had 6 shots on target to our 3. So they actually outplayed us, not robbed us. Against Rotherham, his assessment was correct, we were the better side and they were desperately hanging on to draw at the end, but we gave them a 2 goal head start, so we can hardly complain if we didn't win. I agree with him that we came out of the Norwich match having survived a huge character test and kept them down to just 3 shots on target.
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Post by Gods on Oct 26, 2018 13:31:43 GMT
I work in undergraduate education and if I didn't care what students thought or said I'd be sunk without trace. And occasionally, student representation have been incredibly helpful. Other businesses look to their client base, it's nothing new. If a footballer manager states on record that he doesn't care what supporters think he's a fool. Too right, skip! I'd be sunk without a trace in my professional if I didn't care what those who pay my wages (clients in my world, fans in his) thought about the job I was doing for them, and tried to make them happy, or placate them if they were not. I have to ensure that my reputation goes before me, that clients tell their contacts how good I was to them - it is how I bring in business. Now, mugs like us are more of a captive customer base, most of us will support Stoke no matter what turgid rubbish is served up each Saturday afternoon (and several weekday nights), but that does not mean that our views, feelings, emotions, hopes, whatever you want to call them, should be totally disregarded. We were here long before you, sunshine, and will be here long after you are gone from OUR club. Thinnest of thin ice. Respectfully not caring what people think and agreeing with and acting on what they say are not one and the same. So you are a lawyer, I think, clearly you want satisfied clients, but that doesn't mean if they say to you this is how you should approach my case you will do what they say, you are paid to be the expert and while you are working on their behalf you are following the direction which your experience and training tell you to. It may be your role to ignore or refute what you say, if your direction is the right one most of the time your good reputation will follow.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 26, 2018 13:35:25 GMT
I work in undergraduate education and if I didn't care what students thought or said I'd be sunk without trace. And occasionally, student representation have been incredibly helpful. Other businesses look to their client base, it's nothing new. If a footballer manager states on record that he doesn't care what supporters think he's a fool. Too right, skip! I'd be sunk without a trace in my professional if I didn't care what those who pay my wages (clients in my world, fans in his) thought about the job I was doing for them, and tried to make them happy, or placate them if they were not. I have to ensure that my reputation goes before me, that clients tell their contacts how good I was to them - it is how I bring in business. Now, mugs like us are more of a captive customer base, most of us will support Stoke no matter what turgid rubbish is served up each Saturday afternoon (and several weekday nights), but that does not mean that our views, feelings, emotions, hopes, whatever you want to call them, should be totally disregarded. We were here long before you, sunshine, and will be here long after you are gone from OUR club. Thinnest of thin ice. I am as strong an advocate as anyone for fans views being taken into account on the way the game is run - it's exactly what I'm on the FA Council as supporters rep to do. And what we campaign for in the FSF. But there can't be a similar read over into the on-field matters being discussed here can there ? For two reasons, first there isn't a fans consensus. You only have to read this board for a few minutes to see that. Fans have very different and often contradictory views on players, team selections, tactics, team systems etc etc. The fact that they do is part of what makes the game so attractive. What else would we argue about in the pub ? Second, because of the nature of a competitive league, some are bound to fail and be relegated only a few can be succeed by being promoted. If the Championship had the 24 best managers and the 24 richest owners in the world, three would still be relegated. A good lawyer or a good teacher can do a good job for their client/student regardless of how many other good lawyers or teachers there are. Football is different, because other clubs also have owners, managers and players who are also working to do the best for their own fans/customers/clients, and some are inevitably going to fail, because for every game winner there is a loser. I am quite sure that Rowett, like all managers, is trying to win games and get promoted which is exactly what we want as well. That doesn't mean that he has to take every tweet seriously. Personally, I thought it was a rather silly question to ask in a press conference, but then again, as I said in another post, I think those conferences are pretty much a waste of time. I'd rather him spend the extra hour on the training pitch or looking at videos of Saturday's opponents.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 13:50:19 GMT
To be honest I genuinely like listening to what he says. He's got a decent rapport and he's clearly knowledgable about what's happening on the pitch. I may disagree about some stuff, mostly McClean. But he's said in that presser that we need to start creating some more chances and going for it earlier. Which is exactly what everyone has been spouting after Tuesday. They can obviously go for it when behind as we’ve seen numerous occasions this season. The question is why don’t they adopt that ethos/approach earlier, the manager is surely responsible for setting out the playing style That's what he's said he sees too, he's obviously trying to fix it. We attacked vs Bolton, Birmingham, Sheff Weds, Rotherham. It's clearly recognised by him.
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 26, 2018 13:52:26 GMT
I work in undergraduate education and if I didn't care what students thought or said I'd be sunk without trace. And occasionally, student representation have been incredibly helpful. Other businesses look to their client base, it's nothing new. If a footballer manager states on record that he doesn't care what supporters think he's a fool. Too right, skip! I'd be sunk without a trace in my professional if I didn't care what those who pay my wages (clients in my world, fans in his) thought about the job I was doing for them, and tried to make them happy, or placate them if they were not. I have to ensure that my reputation goes before me, that clients tell their contacts how good I was to them - it is how I bring in business. Now, mugs like us are more of a captive customer base, most of us will support Stoke no matter what turgid rubbish is served up each Saturday afternoon (and several weekday nights), but that does not mean that our views, feelings, emotions, hopes, whatever you want to call them, should be totally disregarded. We were here long before you, sunshine, and will be here long after you are gone from OUR club. Thinnest of thin ice. At no point does he say anything like he "doesn't care what fans think". In fact he even offers to pass on his number and have a chat with the bloke. He just makes a point that he's not going to respond to every disgruntled fan's social media output, which I think is totally fair enough. I am no fan of this guy at all but he's entitled to think that was a dumb approach to a question in a press conference.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 26, 2018 13:53:39 GMT
Wasn't Hughes largely ridiculed on here a few months ago for coming on and reading what was being said?
IMO you can't read into fan's opinions too much, because as Malcolm has said where's the consensus? Tony Pulis, our most successful manager in 40 years splits the fanbase in two. There's no logic to that from an outside observer. Of course he can address concerns, but to start shaping his tactics etc to match that of what would only be a fraction of the total fanbase wants is not how you manage a football team.
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Post by mrred on Oct 26, 2018 13:58:45 GMT
Fuuuuuuuck oooooooff. You haven't earned the right to get snarky with fans perceptions when we turn out dire performances week after week. He's made a pretty damning case for himself by saying we've got 8 coaches too. Surely that's fucking worse?!
I'm not sure it's the right place to present it to him, but dismissing fan opinions like he did isn't a good look. Especially when completely valid concerns like McClean and Cuco constantly gets thrown into the team despite not affecting games (that's being polite) and failing to learn that playing Afobe a mile up on his own doesn't work. The corner question is valid. The last time I used to get excited about corners consistently was probably when Pulis was here. You knew there was a good chance one would go in. We're the absolute pits at them. And we've got 8 coaching staff? Ok Gary.
My respect for him diminishes by the week. Again, he can talk the talk but christ knows he hasn't learned to walk the walk yet.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2018 14:10:01 GMT
I get that he can't be expected to take any and all bits of advice from fans (just like I would not act on a client's instructions which were blatantly not in their best interests, even if they asked me to do it - that is what they pay me for), but the tenor of his comments (mrred used "snarky" above, a very good work for it) really does him no favours.
He is not exactly in a position of strength right now with regard to either our points total or performances of late. He needs all the support he can get, and alienating even a small section of our fanbase is really not in his best interests. He should be out to convince us he is the man to put things right, not belittle us in any way, shape or form for having a view.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 14:18:50 GMT
Why is he getting all defensive?
Doesn't he recognise unconditional support when he sees it?
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Post by neddy on Oct 26, 2018 14:38:20 GMT
I get that he can't be expected to take any and all bits of advice from fans (just like I would not act on a client's instructions which were blatantly not in their best interests, even if they asked me to do it - that is what they pay me for), but the tenor of his comments (mrred used "snarky" above, a very good work for it) really does him no favours. He is not exactly in a position of strength right now with regard to either our points total or performances of late. He needs all the support he can get, and alienating even a small section of our fanbase is really not in his best interests. He should be out to convince us he is the man to put things right, not belittle us in any way, shape or form for having a view. This is it for me he really doesn’t seem to want to engraciate himself to the fans and just comes over that he really doesn’t care one way or the other? It is difficult to therefore warm to him and get behind him holding on to the belief he can come good. Really want him to succeed but with every passing game you get more doubts and on balance I’m not sure he can hack it?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 26, 2018 14:43:14 GMT
They can obviously go for it when behind as we’ve seen numerous occasions this season. The question is why don’t they adopt that ethos/approach earlier, the manager is surely responsible for setting out the playing style That's what he's said he sees too, he's obviously trying to fix it. We attacked vs Bolton, Birmingham, Sheff Weds, Rotherham. It's clearly recognised by him. It’s happened since August so either he’s a poor communicator or the players don’t believe him
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 15:00:23 GMT
That's what he's said he sees too, he's obviously trying to fix it. We attacked vs Bolton, Birmingham, Sheff Weds, Rotherham. It's clearly recognised by him. It’s happened since August so either he’s a poor communicator or the players don’t believe him Well in those games I mentioned he fixed it, at least for large parts of it.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 26, 2018 15:06:11 GMT
Hahah I knew you’d shit on that - but then you shit on everyone anyway 🤷♂️ Not as much as pulis shit on the fans
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Post by onefatcopper on Oct 26, 2018 15:40:43 GMT
Every throw in we took was knee high, Every throw in they took worked an overlap. Do we train for this ? And then also do we train on taking corners. Is Huth still knocking around Clayton Woods ? He was extremely inventive and influential in the way that he took the simple throw in and transformed this into a art form. Joe Allen is doing a sterling effort on taking the corners, it’s not Joes fault that our forwards are to small and that the opposition defenders are to tall .
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 26, 2018 15:41:03 GMT
I get that he can't be expected to take any and all bits of advice from fans (just like I would not act on a client's instructions which were blatantly not in their best interests, even if they asked me to do it - that is what they pay me for), but the tenor of his comments (mrred used "snarky" above, a very good work for it) really does him no favours. He is not exactly in a position of strength right now with regard to either our points total or performances of late. He needs all the support he can get, and alienating even a small section of our fanbase is really not in his best interests. He should be out to convince us he is the man to put things right, not belittle us in any way, shape or form for having a view. He’s annoyed at the journalist for bringing it up in the press conference, not the fan for tweeting it
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 26, 2018 16:09:06 GMT
I like the last question from the female journalist:
"If we carry on as we are, when someone scores against us and then the shackles come off and we go hell for leather, can I ask that we let them score after the first minute?"
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Post by harlequin on Oct 26, 2018 16:29:10 GMT
Got to laugh at 6.25.
Complaining the full backs don't attack enough after consigning Bauer to the trash heap.
Would instantly go up in my estimation if he brought him back into the fold.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2018 17:25:59 GMT
Got to laugh at 6.25. Complaining the full backs don't attack enough after consigning Bauer to the trash heap. Would instantly go up in my estimation is if he brought him back into the fold. If he intends Woods to drop deep and make a three at the back (as he has been doing of late, presumably on instructions) and the full backs to push forward to overload in midfield and give us overlapping runners out wide, then Bauer is by far the best candidate for the job on the right and I'd suggest JFM could be repurposed for this role on the left. Instead, we have Woods dropping deep and making a back five with full backs who stay back, we are overrun in midfield so the wide forwards and number 10 are dropping back too far to help out and the striker is left totally isolated and outnumbered. Of course he is not reading this, as he does not listen to us mere fans, but if we can see it, how the hell can't he?
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Post by harlequin on Oct 26, 2018 17:48:13 GMT
Banging on a open door mate.
He's obviously got a good deal of tactical nous.
Trouble is the simple solution is often the correct one.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2018 18:40:21 GMT
Waddo was an absolute master at the reporting of injuries. He'd report on a friday that a player wouldnt be playing and at three the day after the player would come running out. That's because he didn't know what condition they would be in after a night at The Place or Mr Smiths club in Longton.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 26, 2018 19:50:35 GMT
Waddo was an absolute master at the reporting of injuries. He'd report on a friday that a player wouldnt be playing and at three the day after the player would come running out. That's because he didn't know what condition they would be in after a night at The Place or Mr Smiths club in Longton. Never went Mr Smiths, where was that? Might have shut before I was old enough actually.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 0:11:15 GMT
In my view, the question was presented as being a fans question in order to appear a little more respectful when asking it...the question itself is years overdue, and whether the manager or not is going to answer it doesn't make a jot of difference...supporters pay their money, blah, blah, blah, but also we aren't bloody stupid...I view myself as a pretty even handed bloke when it comes to assessing the shortcomings and good stuff in our play, but in EVERY game for the past 3 years, at least, we have been woeful at throw-ins, and no matter who we are up against, the opposition always use theirs much better than we do. We've got the players to play to feet, if only these players would ever make the effort to make themselves available, with movement happening off the receiver too. When we have a throw in, we have possession for Pete's sake...it shouldn't be that hard to keep possession and make some use of it once the ball has left the throwers arms, but at least 70% of the time ours are just lobbed long down the line in the hope that someone will get their nut on it and head it in the general direction of another Stoke player...the best we ever seem to achieve is a few yards of territory, when opposition heads it straight out. Set pieces are utter shite as well, but there's no shortage of discussion about that particular deficit...the lack of debate around our throw-ins has been a complete and utter mystery to me, however... I think those sort of questions always bristle with managers but his response that ‘we’ve got 8 coaches’ made me spit my tea out. Other than being Gary’s ‘job protection shield’ it’s difficult to see exactly what it is they do. They must watch games over and over again and have either failed to deduce that all our restarts (in all their forms) are generally shit, in which case they should be sacked or they have deduced it and haven't improved it one iota in a third of a season, in which case they should be sacked! This. There's no suggestion of learning any lessons in terms of quality or results. There must be more accountability...
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Post by gonk on Oct 27, 2018 5:27:44 GMT
That's because he didn't know what condition they would be in after a night at The Place or Mr Smiths club in Longton. Never went Mr Smiths, where was that? Might have shut before I was old enough actually. Not sure as i never went there, but i think it was down the side of Burtons.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 27, 2018 5:37:46 GMT
Never went Mr Smiths, where was that? Might have shut before I was old enough actually. Not sure as i never went there, but i think it was down the side of Burtons. Sounds like it might have turned into The Apollo then, cheers
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Oct 27, 2018 6:43:54 GMT
Yeah, that bit stuck out to me. Saying that he doesn’t listen to the fans was something he should not have said. When you’re under pressure you want to be keeping the fans on your side - Paul Lambert was cut way more slack because he did so imo. I agree about Lambert getting cut more slack, but for me he was way too much in the back pocket of the fans for his own good, it didn't ultimately do him any favours anyway, he got ran out of town by those above him. Sometimes leadership is about ignoring the background noise, rolling with the punches and sticking steadfastly to what you believe. It may work, it may not but at least he can go to bed at night knowing he gave it a go rather than dancing around changing things and apologising every time someone posts something on social media. IMHO. Agreed Gods. That it later came to light that LMH was practically glued to the Oatcake has all but extinguished the last vestiges of respect I had for even the good times we experienced under him,the comical mental image of a man racked with doubt manically trawling through the posts of the Oatcake cognoscenti to gauge the zeitgeist or tactical tips is hard to budge!
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 27, 2018 8:33:30 GMT
That's because he didn't know what condition they would be in after a night at The Place or Mr Smiths club in Longton. Never went Mr Smiths, where was that? Might have shut before I was old enough actually. Mr Smith's was in Glass Street, Hanley. It burnt down in 77. Used to despise them and the Place they had a trick of advertising an act was performing in the 60s and then when you went they said they had cancelled. Just a con to get you there.
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