|
|
Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 24, 2018 7:14:33 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs .
It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this .
Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there .
|
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Sept 24, 2018 7:19:47 GMT
There is a lot of truth in this.
If anyone thinks just dropping Ryan Shawcross is suddenly going to turn around the fortunes of this team they are mistaken.
If there is one player this club has never replaced it is the much derided and under appreciated Glen Whelan who held the whole defensive act together from his role in the midfield.
|
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Sept 24, 2018 7:24:17 GMT
Maybe playing 5 at the back on some occasions means that players have less width of the pitch to cover. Once the switch to 4 at the back is made the same players struggle to adapt
We are also missing the
contribution from Zouma
We currently have a much higher standard of player than those in the team when we joined the Premiership but Sam is right, it’s a team game and we have not played as a unit yet
|
|
|
|
Post by kevkj on Sept 24, 2018 8:01:00 GMT
Well the 4-3-3 patently doesn't work ,we lack width. All sides who play that system have full backs who bomb on.
We seem so much better with 2 up front as well.
As for the defence I wouldn't know where to start,thats where Rowett has my sympathy.
|
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 24, 2018 8:16:30 GMT
Well the 4-3-3 patently doesn't work ,we lack width. All sides who play that system have full backs who bomb on. We seem so much better with 2 up front as well. As for the defence I wouldn't know where to start,thats where Rowett has my sympathy. As with the posts above I’ll go with everything you say. The only questionable point is about us playing 4 3 3. That’s simply because viewing from the stands I can’t see any shape in our play at all i e Efobe being stranded on his own in a forward role |
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 24, 2018 8:23:41 GMT
Given our defensive record a good manager would have organised our midfield and had two of them sitting deep. Two, a bit like the pulis midfield cage. With both full backs tucked in tighter with the CB's.
Not great to watch but I'd be happy to see a few goalless draws and the odd single goal wins.
From what we have seen so far, the teams in this league come tearing at us and then get knackered after the hour. All the games should be getting won in the last half hour.
All simple stuff, but what goes on with rowetts coaching staff fuck knows
|
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 24, 2018 8:46:37 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs . It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this . Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there . And the goal that came from a long boot up the pitch that missed out the midfield? Or the first where Ryan and Erik were seen slowly jogging back out when the rest were pushed up out the box? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 8:51:44 GMT
There is a lot of truth in this. If anyone thinks just dropping Ryan Shawcross is suddenly going to turn around the fortunes of this team they are mistaken. If there is one player this club has never replaced it is the much derided and under appreciated Glen Whelan who held the whole defensive act together from his role in the midfield. I'm just waiting for Glenn to retire at Villa, so we can name him as our next manager, for the next seven years. That'll be a disciple of Trapp, Pulis and the unmentionable. Unfortunately I think Coates has pencilled in Shawcross' name as the first manager promoted from within the ranks. |
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2018 8:54:01 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs . It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this . Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there . Not really sure what the midfield can do when two aimless punts right down the middle end up splitting the centre backs leading to a goal and a missed sitter.... It's a fair point to make, but sometimes (or a lot of the time in our case) you are just made to pay from thick defending. |
|
|
|
Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 24, 2018 10:00:02 GMT
There is a lot of truth in this. If anyone thinks just dropping Ryan Shawcross is suddenly going to turn around the fortunes of this team they are mistaken. If there is one player this club has never replaced it is the much derided and under appreciated Glen Whelan who held the whole defensive act together from his role in the midfield. I'm just waiting for Glenn to retire at Villa, so we can name him as our next manager, for the next seven years. That'll be a disciple of Trapp, Pulis and the unmentionable. Unfortunately I think Coates has pencilled in Shawcross' name as the first manager promoted from within the ranks. He's got to come back in some capacity.... Like every other ex-player!!!  |
|
|
|
Post by stokie23 on Sept 24, 2018 10:48:43 GMT
This is certainly true when going forward. When a defender has the ball they look to play it into Allen/Woods feet who are constantly getting closed down and end up passing straight back to the defence. Sometimes Woods drops almost into the back line, turns and finds a pass, fair play to him, but we can’t do this every attack.
As the defenders carry the ball forward, we need a player to drop for a short pass and the other 2/3 players move in between the lines for a ball played through... too many players hiding and not wanting the ball!
Major lack of team work & low confidence
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 24, 2018 11:54:32 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs . It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this . Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there . Not really sure what the midfield can do when two aimless punts right down the middle end up splitting the centre backs leading to a goal and a missed sitter.... It's a fair point to make, but sometimes (or a lot of the time in our case) you are just made to pay from thick defending. The shape is shocking though the back four should work in a line , the right back seems out of position all the time and he should have picked up the run of graham for the 2nd as he came from behind Ryan |
|
|
|
Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 24, 2018 11:55:51 GMT
Not really sure what the midfield can do when two aimless punts right down the middle end up splitting the centre backs leading to a goal and a missed sitter.... It's a fair point to make, but sometimes (or a lot of the time in our case) you are just made to pay from thick defending. The shape is shocking though the back four should work in a line , the right back seems out of position all the time and he should have picked up the run of graham for the 2nd as he came from behind Ryan Also if you replay the first again , woods doesnt work hard enough to apply pressure on the ball , its the lot of them that are not doing enough as far as I can see , one or two may need dropping but that alone wont solve it |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmyg on Sept 24, 2018 12:43:04 GMT
We are not defending as a team,we don't close down quickly enough this includes forwards and midfield, we should not be giving players time to pick out a long ball,rowett IMO is wrong to put blame on certain individuals 1 or 2 mistakes should not cost us the game at this level .It doesn't help when we are chasing the game and the defense is forced further up the pitch. Having a go at shawcross for simply stepping forward and holding the line was pathetic if the other defenders took Ryan's lead their wouldn't have been a problem .
|
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 24, 2018 12:48:18 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs . It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this . Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there . That wasn’t the problem with our goals. The midfield shape was solid in the first goal but Shawcross was so slow to react the scorer had so much time. The second goal was an individual howler by Shawcross and for the third Martina was absent, Shawcross followed the ball and Bruno was slow to recover. |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmyg on Sept 24, 2018 13:00:36 GMT
Just listening to Big Sam on Talk Sport , makes a lot of sense, going on about being together and everyone knowing their jobs . It's fine singling out one or two out of form players but a good team will compensate for this . Looking at the goals we let in this week that appears to be the problem the shape was awful on all of them, the defence wasn't a unit the midfield cover wasn't there . That wasn’t the problem with our goals. The midfield shape was solid in the first goal but Shawcross was so slow to react the scorer had so much time. The second goal was an individual howler by Shawcross and for the third Martina was absent, Shawcross followed the ball and Bruno was slow to recover. When we were chasing and playing a high line the team should have seen the danger of a long ball and been quicker to close down.if the other defenders were on his wave length they would also have stepped up ,its simple defending really |
|
|
|
Post by Stretfordpotterer on Sept 24, 2018 13:58:59 GMT
This is certainly true when going forward. When a defender has the ball they look to play it into Allen/Woods feet who are constantly getting closed down and end up passing straight back to the defence. Sometimes Woods drops almost into the back line, turns and finds a pass, fair play to him, but we can’t do this every attack. As the defenders carry the ball forward, we need a player to drop for a short pass and the other 2/3 players move in between the lines for a ball played through... too many players hiding and not wanting the ball! Major lack of team work & low confidence This is basically it in a nutshell. Rowett has got himself into a bit of catch 22. On the one hand, he knows full well we cannot afford to concede the forst goal, especially at home, because we just wilt and a number of players start hiding. On the other, by sending them out to "not fuck anything up" for half an hour, at least in terms of when we're in possession, it's severely testing the patience of the crowd as we pass it cautiously across the back 4. For 20 minutes after Blackburns 3rd 3 or 4 players did not want to be anywhere near the ball. As soon as we scored we were all over them, everyone wanted it, we could have had 3 in 3 minutes, then we miss the pen and it just took the stuffing out of us again. |
|
|
|
Post by Stretfordpotterer on Sept 24, 2018 14:11:00 GMT
We are not defending as a team,we don't close down quickly enough this includes forwards and midfield, we should not be giving players time to pick out a long ball,rowett IMO is wrong to put blame on certain individuals 1 or 2 mistakes should not cost us the game at this level .It doesn't help when we are chasing the game and the defense is forced further up the pitch. Having a go at shawcross for simply stepping forward and holding the line was pathetic if the other defenders took Ryan's lead their wouldn't have been a problem . I think at times we do close down quick enough, problem is, none of our players can tackle. Pieters, Allen, Ince, Fletcher when he's played, BMI, even shawcross at the moment. They close down, and then lose out in situations they should be 60/40 to win. Whenever a tackle goes in on the edge of the box, one of three things happen 1, opposition player simply walks through our pathetic attempt at a challenge 2, dangerous free kick 3, we get a half challenge in leading to an almighty fucking scramble or some head tennis where it's 50/50 whether we eventually get it away or not what NEVER happens is 4, Stoke players takes ball cleanly leaving opposition player on his arse and allowing us to advance up the field on the break. We don't win tackles, we haven't won tackles for 3 years. As such we don't EARN breakaway chances, we get gifted them occasionally with a poor pass but we rarely, if ever, turn over possession in dangerous areas, which is fundamental to the modern game. And because we never win challenges we've ceased to make movements necessary to take advantage, so on the odd occasion we do win the ball back it's like we're completely flat footed because nobody really expected us to win a tackle. I find it both bizarre and infuriating. It feels to me like nobody in that side is a truly terrible footballer, but as a group they lack the key physical attributes of a modern team, pace height and power. |
|
|
|
Post by madeleystokie on Sept 24, 2018 14:38:15 GMT
We are not defending as a team,we don't close down quickly enough this includes forwards and midfield, we should not be giving players time to pick out a long ball,rowett IMO is wrong to put blame on certain individuals 1 or 2 mistakes should not cost us the game at this level .It doesn't help when we are chasing the game and the defense is forced further up the pitch. Having a go at shawcross for simply stepping forward and holding the line was pathetic if the other defenders took Ryan's lead their wouldn't have been a problem . I think at times we do close down quick enough, problem is, none of our players can tackle. Pieters, Allen, Ince, Fletcher when he's played, BMI, even shawcross at the moment. They close down, and then lose out in situations they should be 60/40 to win. Whenever a tackle goes in on the edge of the box, one of three things happen 1, opposition player simply walks through our pathetic attempt at a challenge 2, dangerous free kick 3, we get a half challenge in leading to an almighty fucking scramble or some head tennis where it's 50/50 whether we eventually get it away or not what NEVER happens is 4, Stoke players takes ball cleanly leaving opposition player on his arse and allowing us to advance up the field on the break. We don't win tackles, we haven't won tackles for 3 years. As such we don't EARN breakaway chances, we get gifted them occasionally with a poor pass but we rarely, if ever, turn over possession in dangerous areas, which is fundamental to the modern game. And because we never win challenges we've ceased to make movements necessary to take advantage, so on the odd occasion we do win the ball back it's like we're completely flat footed because nobody really expected us to win a tackle. I find it both bizarre and infuriating. It feels to me like nobody in that side is a truly terrible footballer, but as a group they lack the key physical attributes of a modern team, pace height and power. Fully agree with this. It's been a long time since we saw some consistency in terms of winning tackles, hard but fairly. Sadly, that's the way the game has gone anyway but it does frustrate the heck out of me that we can't break up opposition tackles in that manner at all these days. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2018 14:48:13 GMT
We are not defending as a team,we don't close down quickly enough this includes forwards and midfield, we should not be giving players time to pick out a long ball,rowett IMO is wrong to put blame on certain individuals 1 or 2 mistakes should not cost us the game at this level .It doesn't help when we are chasing the game and the defense is forced further up the pitch. Having a go at shawcross for simply stepping forward and holding the line was pathetic if the other defenders took Ryan's lead their wouldn't have been a problem . I think at times we do close down quick enough, problem is, none of our players can tackle. Pieters, Allen, Ince, Fletcher when he's played, BMI, even shawcross at the moment. They close down, and then lose out in situations they should be 60/40 to win. Whenever a tackle goes in on the edge of the box, one of three things happen 1, opposition player simply walks through our pathetic attempt at a challenge 2, dangerous free kick 3, we get a half challenge in leading to an almighty fucking scramble or some head tennis where it's 50/50 whether we eventually get it away or not what NEVER happens is 4, Stoke players takes ball cleanly leaving opposition player on his arse and allowing us to advance up the field on the break. We don't win tackles, we haven't won tackles for 3 years. As such we don't EARN breakaway chances, we get gifted them occasionally with a poor pass but we rarely, if ever, turn over possession in dangerous areas, which is fundamental to the modern game. And because we never win challenges we've ceased to make movements necessary to take advantage, so on the odd occasion we do win the ball back it's like we're completely flat footed because nobody really expected us to win a tackle. I find it both bizarre and infuriating. It feels to me like nobody in that side is a truly terrible footballer, but as a group they lack the key physical attributes of a modern team, pace height and power. Spot on, for me. I remember starting a thread a couple of years ago saying we needed more pace and power in the team, and we still haven't addressed the issue. Virtually every other team seems to be able to break with pace, whereas we seem laboured. Good point about the lack of tacklers, too. |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmyg on Sept 24, 2018 16:28:47 GMT
We are not defending as a team,we don't close down quickly enough this includes forwards and midfield, we should not be giving players time to pick out a long ball,rowett IMO is wrong to put blame on certain individuals 1 or 2 mistakes should not cost us the game at this level .It doesn't help when we are chasing the game and the defense is forced further up the pitch. Having a go at shawcross for simply stepping forward and holding the line was pathetic if the other defenders took Ryan's lead their wouldn't have been a problem . I think at times we do close down quick enough, problem is, none of our players can tackle. Pieters, Allen, Ince, Fletcher when he's played, BMI, even shawcross at the moment. They close down, and then lose out in situations they should be 60/40 to win. Whenever a tackle goes in on the edge of the box, one of three things happen 1, opposition player simply walks through our pathetic attempt at a challenge 2, dangerous free kick 3, we get a half challenge in leading to an almighty fucking scramble or some head tennis where it's 50/50 whether we eventually get it away or not what NEVER happens is 4, Stoke players takes ball cleanly leaving opposition player on his arse and allowing us to advance up the field on the break. We don't win tackles, we haven't won tackles for 3 years. As such we don't EARN breakaway chances, we get gifted them occasionally with a poor pass but we rarely, if ever, turn over possession in dangerous areas, which is fundamental to the modern game. And because we never win challenges we've ceased to make movements necessary to take advantage, so on the odd occasion we do win the ball back it's like we're completely flat footed because nobody really expected us to win a tackle. I find it both bizarre and infuriating. It feels to me like nobody in that side is a truly terrible footballer, but as a group they lack the key physical attributes of a modern team, pace height and power. true That's very true,we are not putting a challenge in nor narrowing the angles allowing opposition more time and space to play. |
|
|
|
Post by superheroantonius on Sept 24, 2018 19:37:03 GMT
I think at times we do close down quick enough, problem is, none of our players can tackle. Pieters, Allen, Ince, Fletcher when he's played, BMI, even shawcross at the moment. They close down, and then lose out in situations they should be 60/40 to win. Whenever a tackle goes in on the edge of the box, one of three things happen 1, opposition player simply walks through our pathetic attempt at a challenge 2, dangerous free kick 3, we get a half challenge in leading to an almighty fucking scramble or some head tennis where it's 50/50 whether we eventually get it away or not what NEVER happens is 4, Stoke players takes ball cleanly leaving opposition player on his arse and allowing us to advance up the field on the break. We don't win tackles, we haven't won tackles for 3 years. As such we don't EARN breakaway chances, we get gifted them occasionally with a poor pass but we rarely, if ever, turn over possession in dangerous areas, which is fundamental to the modern game. And because we never win challenges we've ceased to make movements necessary to take advantage, so on the odd occasion we do win the ball back it's like we're completely flat footed because nobody really expected us to win a tackle. I find it both bizarre and infuriating. It feels to me like nobody in that side is a truly terrible footballer, but as a group they lack the key physical attributes of a modern team, pace height and power. true That's very true,we are not putting a challenge in nor narrowing the angles allowing opposition more time and space to playwe Maybe we could sign Venus and Serena Williams It would mean a change of sport for them But it would be like having Stuart Pearce and abdoulaye Faye in your back four There is no way those guys are going to lose a 40/60 challenge to anyone They are absolute tanks |
|
|
|
Post by senojbor on Sept 25, 2018 7:40:03 GMT
Saturday's defensive showing was by far and away the worst I've seen probably since the Wigan game away when we lost six something.
Abysmal display by players that are use to playing at a higher level. I cannot for the life of me understand it?
|
|
