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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 7, 2018 13:39:49 GMT
If that's the criteria then I give them 2 transfer windows before they run out of options... My thoughts entirely. Most modern day footballers are dickheads.
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Post by burberrybassist on Sept 7, 2018 13:42:34 GMT
It's less to do with dickheads and more to do with loyalty. Over our Prem years we signed the likes of Pennant who has shown himself on Big Brother to be a bit of a plank, but he never appeared to act like Stoke owed him a favour for putting on the red and white.
As the seasons went on we quite rightly looked for better, more exciting players to take us to the next level, but in doing so we were taking on players that saw unfashionable Stoke as a stepping stone to Champions League football.
The "dogs home" mentality worked to our advantage, we put our arms around players and offered second chances, which in turn meant players were truly grateful to the club and management, and you could tell that the players genuinely loved the club they played for, creating such a fantastic team spirit in the Pulis/Early Hughes years. That was missing in the most part over the last few season, and still is now from what I've seen on the pitch.
We appear to have turned into 11 skillful (in the most part) footballers on a pitch, as opposed to a team. That's been our downfall in my opinion, not dickheads.
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Post by madmickthe3rd on Sept 7, 2018 13:44:32 GMT
It is more about Ego's not what would they do if a big club came calling. I know very well where we currently are and where West Ham are. I also know where West Ham currently are and if you think Arnie moving to them is going to achieve his dream of winning summat, which was his excuse for wanting to move, then me and you my friend are both clearly deluded! Pretty sure his "excuse" was that they were a bigger and more ambitious club (his quotes are easily google-able...yet none of those quotes mention winning trophies, despite your seeming obsession with that phrase now that you've conveniently decided to move your focus away from ambition). They are traditionally a "bigger" club and their ambition means they are still in the Prem. Also, why blame just him? We didn't HAVE to sell him did we? No one can force us to get rid if we don't want to, but we did, we sold our best and most threatening player....then replaced him with a free transfer. Does that go some way to showing you our ambition???? People can say that we went down because we got rid of players like Arnie and they're right, but that isn't because he downed tools because he thought he was bigger than us. It's because despite his best efforts, the club were willing to do everything on the cheap with a manager who'd clearly started to lose the plot and the club were sitting on their hands doing sod all about it. It's a 2 way thing....if you want to hold on to your best players, then it's up to you as a club to convince them and show them that they should stay. If you don't then they'll leave and then you as a club will suffer because of it. Why not try placing the blame where it lies for our current predicament which is the manager at the time and the board for allowing all of this to happen! No, slag off the "ego" driven players as that's the easy option, the knee-jerk, doesn't take much thought option. It's an easy and lazy cop out and woefully short sighted.
When you talk about where they currently are, have you seen where we currently are?? I'd say that as a career move, if he'd turned down West Ham and stayed with Stoke and he was now languishing towards the foot of the Championship rather than the foot of the Prem, then most neutrals would have said THAT was a dickhead move. They do this as a job and if they can move up the career ladder (and make no mistake, remaining in the Prem with them as he did last season IS a step up the career ladder, as he's still in a far better shop window than he would have been if he'd stayed), then that's what they'll do. Out of interest...if another company wants your services, is willing to pay you better wages and also looks like a company that may survive whilst your current employer is self-destructing would you move? Why in any other job would it be a wise career move but in football then making the same decision apparently means he has a massive ego? Whether you like the reasons he moved or not, turns out he made exactly the right choice for him and so he should; it's his job, his profession, his career and his future. If wanting to make the best of your career for the sake of your future life means you have a massive ego, then i think you can lump just about the entire working world into that bracket as well mate. Amazing how virtually everyone on here could see us unravelling back then and slated the club for it, yet a player notices so takes a better offer and suddenly he's just got a massive ego! Sorry to burst your bubble but these players aren't lifelong Stoke fans so they're not going to stay purely to please you. They have their own lives to get on with and their own careers to worry about. It doesn't make them egotistical divas for doing that, it simply means they're human and doing exactly the same as you or i would do if our employer was imploding and sliding down the pan. Stop judging footballers differently when all they're doing is making a sensible career move in the same way you would. Crikey mate, I wasn't coming on here to have an argument with you, so please accept my apologies for having a different opinion to you and for being delusional, obsessed and convenient! Two questions though if I may :- 1) Can I respectfully ask what your interpretation of ambition is? Particularly when it comes to football as I think we are poles apart on our respective understanding of the word. In other words do you think moving to West Ham from Stoke is a truly significant statement of ambition? 2) If Arnie had of stayed with us, do you think we would have been relegated last season and do you think West Ham would have survived, bearing in mind they were in deep shit before he joined them. Of course we all go to the highest bidder in life but there is a way to leave a job and a way not to leave! Mark Hughes mouthing for all to see " you ungrateful bastard " when Arnie was subbed fro West Ham at Stoke tells its own story.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 7, 2018 14:21:02 GMT
Pretty sure his "excuse" was that they were a bigger and more ambitious club (his quotes are easily google-able...yet none of those quotes mention winning trophies, despite your seeming obsession with that phrase now that you've conveniently decided to move your focus away from ambition). They are traditionally a "bigger" club and their ambition means they are still in the Prem. Also, why blame just him? We didn't HAVE to sell him did we? No one can force us to get rid if we don't want to, but we did, we sold our best and most threatening player....then replaced him with a free transfer. Does that go some way to showing you our ambition???? People can say that we went down because we got rid of players like Arnie and they're right, but that isn't because he downed tools because he thought he was bigger than us. It's because despite his best efforts, the club were willing to do everything on the cheap with a manager who'd clearly started to lose the plot and the club were sitting on their hands doing sod all about it. It's a 2 way thing....if you want to hold on to your best players, then it's up to you as a club to convince them and show them that they should stay. If you don't then they'll leave and then you as a club will suffer because of it. Why not try placing the blame where it lies for our current predicament which is the manager at the time and the board for allowing all of this to happen! No, slag off the "ego" driven players as that's the easy option, the knee-jerk, doesn't take much thought option. It's an easy and lazy cop out and woefully short sighted.
When you talk about where they currently are, have you seen where we currently are?? I'd say that as a career move, if he'd turned down West Ham and stayed with Stoke and he was now languishing towards the foot of the Championship rather than the foot of the Prem, then most neutrals would have said THAT was a dickhead move. They do this as a job and if they can move up the career ladder (and make no mistake, remaining in the Prem with them as he did last season IS a step up the career ladder, as he's still in a far better shop window than he would have been if he'd stayed), then that's what they'll do. Out of interest...if another company wants your services, is willing to pay you better wages and also looks like a company that may survive whilst your current employer is self-destructing would you move? Why in any other job would it be a wise career move but in football then making the same decision apparently means he has a massive ego? Whether you like the reasons he moved or not, turns out he made exactly the right choice for him and so he should; it's his job, his profession, his career and his future. If wanting to make the best of your career for the sake of your future life means you have a massive ego, then i think you can lump just about the entire working world into that bracket as well mate. Amazing how virtually everyone on here could see us unravelling back then and slated the club for it, yet a player notices so takes a better offer and suddenly he's just got a massive ego! Sorry to burst your bubble but these players aren't lifelong Stoke fans so they're not going to stay purely to please you. They have their own lives to get on with and their own careers to worry about. It doesn't make them egotistical divas for doing that, it simply means they're human and doing exactly the same as you or i would do if our employer was imploding and sliding down the pan. Stop judging footballers differently when all they're doing is making a sensible career move in the same way you would. Crikey mate, I wasn't coming on here to have an argument with you, so please accept my apologies for having a different opinion to you and for being delusional, obsessed and convenient! Two questions though if I may :- 1) Can I respectfully ask what your interpretation of ambition is? Particularly when it comes to football as I think we are poles apart on our respective understanding of the word. In other words do you think moving to West Ham from Stoke is a truly significant statement of ambition? 2) If Arnie had of stayed with us, do you think we would have been relegated last season and do you think West Ham would have survived, bearing in mind they were in deep shit before he joined them. Of course we all go to the highest bidder in life but there is a way to leave a job and a way not to leave! Mark Hughes mouthing for all to see " you ungrateful bastard " when Arnie was subbed fro West Ham at Stoke tells its own story.
I would see someone who can see the club they're at stagnating and doing absolutely nothing to stop that from happening, then moving to another club who weren't as bad so that way they can remain in the top division as showing ambition regardless of how many trophies they won (as you have no idea how many trophies you'll win when you move to any club). That's how you progress in football as a player, you don't progress by staying at a club who are willing to slide downhill and then hope bigger clubs spot you when you're further down the leagues.
Yes, i think we'd have gone down even if we had Arnie last year....we needed far more than just him to keep us up last year, in the same way that West Ham needed far more than just him to stay up. They stayed up partially due to Arnie but also due to determination, passion and fight! 3 things we didn't have at any point and Arnie staying alone wouldn't have magically made those things appear.
And Hughes didn't mouth "you ungrateful bastard" because Arnie moved...he did it because of the way he celebrated in front of the Stoke fans and taunted the fans when he scored! Try reading Hughes' quotes post match and you'll see just that.
Don't try to spin what happened and omit salient facts just so it fits in with your opinion.
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Post by madmickthe3rd on Sept 7, 2018 16:17:33 GMT
Crikey mate, I wasn't coming on here to have an argument with you, so please accept my apologies for having a different opinion to you and for being delusional, obsessed and convenient! Two questions though if I may :- 1) Can I respectfully ask what your interpretation of ambition is? Particularly when it comes to football as I think we are poles apart on our respective understanding of the word. In other words do you think moving to West Ham from Stoke is a truly significant statement of ambition? 2) If Arnie had of stayed with us, do you think we would have been relegated last season and do you think West Ham would have survived, bearing in mind they were in deep shit before he joined them. Of course we all go to the highest bidder in life but there is a way to leave a job and a way not to leave! Mark Hughes mouthing for all to see " you ungrateful bastard " when Arnie was subbed fro West Ham at Stoke tells its own story.
I would see someone who can see the club they're at stagnating and doing absolutely nothing to stop that from happening, then moving to another club who weren't as bad so that way they can remain in the top division as showing ambition regardless of how many trophies they won (as you have no idea how many trophies you'll win when you move to any club). That's how you progress in football as a player, you don't progress by staying at a club who are willing to slide downhill and then hope bigger clubs spot you when you're further down the leagues.
Yes, i think we'd have gone down even if we had Arnie last year....we needed far more than just him to keep us up last year, in the same way that West Ham needed far more than just him to stay up. They stayed up partially due to Arnie but also due to determination, passion and fight! 3 things we didn't have at any point and Arnie staying alone wouldn't have magically made those things appear.
And Hughes didn't mouth "you ungrateful bastard" because Arnie moved...he did it because of the way he celebrated in front of the Stoke fans and taunted the fans when he scored! Try reading Hughes' quotes post match and you'll see just that.
Don't try to spin what happened and omit salient facts just so it fits in with your opinion.
Post match comments jeeez do you believe them if you profess to knowing what spin means? I know what I saw and I absolutely know what he ( Hughes) meant by it. Where was Arnie before us, Barcelona was it? Anyway, weekends here, lets all drink a beer.
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Post by stokeyank on Sept 7, 2018 16:19:08 GMT
If that's the criteria then I give them 2 transfer windows before they run out of options... My thoughts entirely. Most modern day footballers are dickheads. Then you clearly have not met many modern day footballers. I have been fortunate to meet a few and all have come across as generally nice, good people. They just seem like dickheads because they make 100 times what we do and drive a Bentley. Does not mean they actually are.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 7, 2018 16:40:09 GMT
I would see someone who can see the club they're at stagnating and doing absolutely nothing to stop that from happening, then moving to another club who weren't as bad so that way they can remain in the top division as showing ambition regardless of how many trophies they won (as you have no idea how many trophies you'll win when you move to any club). That's how you progress in football as a player, you don't progress by staying at a club who are willing to slide downhill and then hope bigger clubs spot you when you're further down the leagues.
Yes, i think we'd have gone down even if we had Arnie last year....we needed far more than just him to keep us up last year, in the same way that West Ham needed far more than just him to stay up. They stayed up partially due to Arnie but also due to determination, passion and fight! 3 things we didn't have at any point and Arnie staying alone wouldn't have magically made those things appear.
And Hughes didn't mouth "you ungrateful bastard" because Arnie moved...he did it because of the way he celebrated in front of the Stoke fans and taunted the fans when he scored! Try reading Hughes' quotes post match and you'll see just that.
Don't try to spin what happened and omit salient facts just so it fits in with your opinion.
Post match comments jeeez do you believe them if you profess to knowing what spin means? I know what I saw and I absolutely know what he ( Hughes) meant by it. Where was Arnie before us, Barcelona was it? Anyway, weekends here, lets all drink a beer.
So you're now saying we should agree with you because you psychically know what he meant by it, even though he himself said different? And yes, if it's coming from the horse's mouth , then i'll take that over someone deciding they know best with no evidence whatsoever to base it on other than the voices in their own mind.
Even if you ignore what Hughes himself said, logically it would make far more sense that he was pissed off with the way he taunted the fans than the idea that Hughes as a professional and experienced manager would spit his dummy out because a player had transferred to another club......players transferring tends to be part and parcel of a manager's job mate so i'm fairly sure he's grown up enough to deal with a player leaving even if you're not.
Fuck me, there's clutching at straws and then there's "Believe me people, i know what Hughes thinks better than he does himself". What an utterly embarrassing and yes, fucking deluded "fact" to try to use in a discussion complete embarrassment mate.
Go on, just for entertainment....how do you KNOW what Hughes meant by it then given that what he said differs from what you're telling him he meant. Di dhe tell you after the game? Did you go down the pub with him and he spilled the beans? Did he email you so you had the scoop when no one else did? Or did you just decide he meant what you think he did because it happened to fit in with your own opinion? Funny how when it's a press conference Hughes gives we should ignore it, but when it suits you we have to take what Arnie said in a press conference as gospel because that suits your argument (well...until i point out that you just added your own things to Arnie's quotes even though he never actually said them and then you completely forget all about that anyway when you're found out)
The vast majority of people on here have disagreed with your OP, there really is no reason to get so precious and turn into a teenage girl simply because you're all over the shop and floundering like a beached whale mate.
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Post by enuntio on Sept 7, 2018 16:51:35 GMT
Nzonzi had a good patch but his not arsed patched was far greater
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Post by duckling on Sept 7, 2018 20:37:21 GMT
The no dickheads policy needs to start at the top. Hughton seems like a genuinely decent person - not a dickhead. Football management is filled with dickheads. Mourinho, Allardyce, Pulis among MANY others, are dickheads. They might be great managers, but they are dickheads.
Managers set the tone for the players, and dickhead managers reap what they sow.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 7, 2018 21:35:15 GMT
I think its unfair to call Shaq, Arnie or NZonzi 'dickhead' players in all honesty. Bitterness because they left us doesn't mean they were dickheads. Blimey mate, do you honestly think that of Arnie? When someone says they want to play for a team with more ambition and the chance to win something, which I do totally get, but then signs for West Ham!! I think that is the perfect blueprint for being a D--head and I really struggle to see how anybody could defend that, especially when that one transfer alone, at the time it was done, probably relegated us! So bitter?? Yes I bloody well am! Apparently he was upto his usual tricks at the weekend nonchalantly wandering around doing nothing on the pitch, totally disinterested, just because someone didn't stick the chance away he had created. I reckon he will be off in January like a flash, and history will repeat itself by then condemning WHU to relegation. Arnie is very well thought of by the West Ham players and was well liked at Stoke by the team.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 7, 2018 21:42:12 GMT
I think its unfair to call Shaq, Arnie or NZonzi 'dickhead' players in all honesty. Bitterness because they left us doesn't mean they were dickheads. Blimey mate, do you honestly think that of Arnie? When someone says they want to play for a team with more ambition and the chance to win something, which I do totally get, but then signs for West Ham!! I think that is the perfect blueprint for being a D--head and I really struggle to see how anybody could defend that, especially when that one transfer alone, at the time it was done, probably relegated us! So bitter?? Yes I bloody well am! Apparently he was upto his usual tricks at the weekend nonchalantly wandering around doing nothing on the pitch, totally disinterested, just because someone didn't stick the chance away he had created. I reckon he will be off in January like a flash, and history will repeat itself by then condemning WHU to relegation. Our recruitment team and the failure to see obvious problems were what relegated us. Arnautovic can't be blamed for the relegation that just nonsensical.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Sept 8, 2018 10:01:20 GMT
Living down here I get BHA rammed down my throat each and every day and do go to the odd game now and again. Great club to be honest and when you think where they came from, homeless and playing every home game 100 miles away at Gillingham to temporary stands on an athletic track, to the state of the art Amex Stadium, you do have to reluctantly take your hat off to them. The only player they have had recently with a bit of an ego is Anthony Knockeart. He was dropped form the team, spat his dummy out, and was left out of the team until he fell in line again, and has been as good as gold ever since. Chris Hughton is a very under rated manager in my eyes! Yeah, I heard they were into that kind of stuff...
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 9, 2018 10:56:35 GMT
www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16694426.mathew-ryan-says-albion-recruit-like-the-all-blacks-with-a-no-dheads-policy/When I think about some of the super inflated ego's we have recruited as players over the last 5 years, it is interesting to read about their transfer policy. When you have players like Nzonzi, Arnie and Shaq clearly calling the tunes and then jumping at the first opportunity, is it ever likely we ended up where we are, with a squad like we have? Brighton seem to be doing what we did in our early years in the Prem. Putting a team of 'grateful for the opprtunity' together who fight for the team and accept, without question, the decisions of the manager. We have somehow lost this concept along the way and look what the result has been! it is not a questin of bringing in players (or managers) that are grateful to be here - that's how we ended up Lambert. we need mature, intelligent players more like Butland, Crouch and Allen rather than petulant knobs like Jese. Sure, but had Jese been scoring a goal every other game, he'd have been tolerated.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Sept 9, 2018 14:06:53 GMT
www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16694426.mathew-ryan-says-albion-recruit-like-the-all-blacks-with-a-no-dheads-policy/When I think about some of the super inflated ego's we have recruited as players over the last 5 years, it is interesting to read about their transfer policy. When you have players like Nzonzi, Arnie and Shaq clearly calling the tunes and then jumping at the first opportunity, is it ever likely we ended up where we are, with a squad like we have? Brighton seem to be doing what we did in our early years in the Prem. Putting a team of 'grateful for the opprtunity' together who fight for the team and accept, without question, the decisions of the manager. We have somehow lost this concept along the way and look what the result has been! You’re choosing N’Zonzi, Shaq and Arnie as examples of everything that has been wrong with Stoke over the last few seasons? Have you been watching with your eyes closed?
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Post by medwaypotter on Sept 10, 2018 19:33:36 GMT
Living down here I get BHA rammed down my throat each and every day and do go to the odd game now and again. Great club to be honest and when you think where they came from, homeless and playing every home game 100 miles away at Gillingham to temporary stands on an athletic track, to the state of the art Amex Stadium, you do have to reluctantly take your hat off to them. The only player they have had recently with a bit of an ego is Anthony Knockeart. He was dropped form the team, spat his dummy out, and was left out of the team until he fell in line again, and has been as good as gold ever since. Chris Hughton is a very under rated manager in my eyes! Gillingham to Brighton isn't 100 miles, a trek, but only an hour away.
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Post by superheroantonius on Sept 10, 2018 19:45:58 GMT
Last time I went to Brighton v stoke, I saw a brand new fifty quid note on the floor
But I decided not to chance, bending over to pick it up
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