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Post by sufolkstokie on Aug 23, 2018 10:17:07 GMT
Rowett is just an appointment in the mould of a family who have been left behind. He probably is not right for a modern day SCFC. However we are rotten and blind from top to bottom.
It has been covered by many on here re players, recruitment and so on and now we have fighting, refusal to train, pundits, ex players and journos spilling increasingly alarming insight re pretty much every aspect of our club
If Coates does not grab hold of this right now, then his money is next to useless other than keeping us afloat - but his track record indicates he wont and we will continue to fall apart.
It is like watching an institution such as Woolworths who simplyy does not keep up with the times and just fades away whilst all its customers can see what is happening right in front of their eyes
It is all very sad
I refer back to the excellent post by Tony1234 that sums it up perfectly
………………………………………………………………………………….
Here's my hypothesis: You have to look past just investment and see Stoke as a business that has not kept pace with changing markets, competition and customer needs....
Lots has changed in sport and the world in the ten years in the PL. Fitness, global recruitment, money/financing, players contracts, tactics, systems, the way clubs in the PL invest in portfolio of younger players, commercial development, management methods in organisations and the use of data and analytics in everything from scouting to game management.
Stoke remained "old school": A dominant owner who 'liked what he knew and knew what he liked' and a CEO who occupies his role like an old fashioned "gaffer"; But not a modern leader who can oversee a transformation programme that allows his club/business to meet ever-evolving opportunities and challenges with the above.
A Technical Director is such a key figure too, and should be the head of club boffins, driving evidence and strategy into the way the club makes decisions about the squad; but is at Stoke, alas, a slightly overweight guy who looks like a mildly overbearing 'bit of a laugh' geezer with no more insight than any other guy at the bar. We've therefore recruited on hunches and dealt in relatively basic amateurish ways, trying to be smart and tough, but being completely outflanked by those with a more strategic and planned approach. Ignored by some, exploited by others on timing, approach, etc
Hence, without a joined up strategy - we've not created a coherent playing system: we constantly look disjointed.
We've not recruited the right players who will fit into a system. (Allen, Imbula... constantly hoping they'll be convertable into a DM we need, or Diouf can play RAF etc)
(This devalues those players we do play, like Arnie - a 25m player for us but a 50m player in a team playing a more coherent system one year later?)
Without expert due diligence, we've not spotted what should have been obvious with Palacious, Jese and Beharinho - that these guys were mentally unfit and ill-equipped.
We've neglected the psychology and fitness of the squad:- hence the inability to get the team to reach peak performance levels and, too frequently, it plays like its got the collective flu or a malaise; out of confusion and lack of focus.
Lack of structure means we act too slowly in transfer windows - so arrive at new seasons unprepared
And sentiment and presumptions usurps data - so we too slowly recognise when players should be got rid of. (Ryan 12-15 months ago?)
And no youth players come through because there is no process to educate, integrate: no intelligent tracking of their progress, no skills to know what the next best thing to do with this crop is - loan, develop, let go etc.
While wanting self-sustainability, we've acted contrary to this at every turn. Even this window: Afobe, Ince and Maclean bought at peak values we'll never recoup. Dead money on Williams. All a mismatch of intent and action .
... creating a view there has been a shortage of investment, but its more there has been a shortage of investment with any return.
And a cosy culture has evolved around all of this, that forgives failure without the skills to diagnose and analyse performance. As its not clear who is responsible for what, then Hughes and Cartwright get to hang on for way longer than they should.
Stoke City need to modernise as an organisation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 10:22:36 GMT
Bollocks, I made this post about the manager after Sheikh's about the board, to save myself re-hashing the same points...
Pre-Season: Wank results playing wank football and the only benefit is you could validate it by saying they're new to the 4-3-3 and they can use the games to get used to the system. That'd be all well and good except he then dropped the system after a single fucking game, so all of that was for naught.
Signings: Where to start here, I won't bother going through them all one by one; but a few major points.
-Not only have we managed to shift absolutely none of our deadwood, we have signed up McClean to a fucking 4 year contract so we can enjoy having him knocking about being unable to control a football till the age of about 40.
-Our midfield two, which was our weakest point last season and probably the chief reason we were relegated, hasn't changed at all.
-We have a limited amount of loan signings we can make and we wasted one of the fuckers on Cuco fucking Martina, a third fucking right back.
-Not a single one of our players has come off of a good season, Etebo was relegated, McClean was relegated, Afobe barely played, Federici hasn't in years, Ince did more or less nothing for a calendar year and William's biggest contribution seemed to be fighting his own fucking fans. They're all shitting themselves, they have no confidence and half of them are wank players.
Football: Changes formation every week, doesn't even know how he wants to play so our transfer policy has reflected it in signing a bunch of players which aren't what we need and can't play together. We are hoofing it up and playing direct, which would be fine if we had a single fucking player capable of winning a header, you can't play the way he is and not start Crouch. Crucially the style, formation and more or less everything is utterly unclear, Lambert joined midway through a transfer window, had none of his own players and had us set up a lot better then this for fucks sake.
Quite crucially Rowett has had an easy job, spent the most money in the league, kept all of the players we wanted to bar Shaqiri and somehow he doesn't know something as basic as what our best formation even is, let alone have us play in a way that looks cohesive for even a second.
The club is run like shit, but thus far Rowett has done nothing right.
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Post by Stokyo on Aug 23, 2018 10:24:36 GMT
Agreed, I actually feel sorry for Rowett, imagine how this job was sold to him and what he has ended up to work with.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Aug 23, 2018 10:27:16 GMT
Bollocks, I made this post about the manager after Sheikh's about the board, to save myself re-hashing the same points...
Pre-Season: Wank results playing wank football and the only benefit is you could validate it by saying they're new to the 4-3-3 and they can use the games to get used to the system. That'd be all well and good except he then dropped the system after a single fucking game, so all of that was for naught.
Signings: Where to start here, I won't bother going through them all one by one; but a few major points. -Not only have we managed to shift absolutely none of our deadwood, we have signed up McClean to a fucking 4 year contract so we can enjoy having him knocking about being unable to control a football till the age of about 40. -Our midfield two, which was our weakest point last season and probably the chief reason we were relegated, hasn't changed at all. -We have a limited amount of loan signings we can make and we wasted one of the fuckers on Cuco fucking Martina, a third fucking right back. -Not a single one of our players has come off of a good season, Etebo was relegated, McClean was relegated, Afobe barely played, Federici hasn't in years, Ince did more or less nothing for a calendar year and William's biggest contribution seemed to be fighting his own fucking fans. They're all shitting themselves, they have no confidence and half of them are wank players. Football: Changes formation every week, doesn't even know how he wants to play so our transfer policy has reflected it in signing a bunch of players which aren't what we need and can't play together. We are hoofing it up and playing direct, which would be fine if we had a single fucking player capable of winning a header, you can't play the way he is and not start Crouch. Crucially the style, formation and more or less everything is utterly unclear, Lambert joined midway through a transfer window, had none of his own players and had us set up a lot better then this for fucks sake. Quite crucially Rowett has had an easy job, spent the most money in the league, kept all of the players we wanted to bar Shaqiri and somehow he doesn't know something as basic as what our best formation even is, let alone have us play in a way that looks cohesive for even a second. The club is run like shit, but thus far Rowett has done nothing right. Re read the post Rowett is NOT right for SCFC but he is not teh underlying issue - it is how we are run |
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Aug 23, 2018 10:27:45 GMT
Rowett is just an appointment in the mould of a family who have been left behind. He probably is not right for a modern day SCFC. However we are rotten and blind from top to bottom. It has been covered by many on here re players, recruitment and so on and now we have fighting, refusal to train, pundits, ex players and journos spilling increasingly alarming insight re pretty much every aspect of our club If Coates does not grab hold of this right now, then his money is next to useless other than keeping us afloat - but his track record indicates he wont and we will continue to fall apart. It is like watching an institution such as Woolworths who simplyy does not keep up with the times and just fades away whilst all its customers can see what is happening right in front of their eyes It is all very sad I refer back to the excellent post by Tony1234 that sums it up perfectly …………………………………………………………………………………. Here's my hypothesis: You have to look past just investment and see Stoke as a business that has not kept pace with changing markets, competition and customer needs.... Lots has changed in sport and the world in the ten years in the PL. Fitness, global recruitment, money/financing, players contracts, tactics, systems, the way clubs in the PL invest in portfolio of younger players, commercial development, management methods in organisations and the use of data and analytics in everything from scouting to game management. Stoke remained "old school": A dominant owner who 'liked what he knew and knew what he liked' and a CEO who occupies his role like an old fashioned "gaffer"; But not a modern leader who can oversee a transformation programme that allows his club/business to meet ever-evolving opportunities and challenges with the above. A Technical Director is such a key figure too, and should be the head of club boffins, driving evidence and strategy into the way the club makes decisions about the squad; but is at Stoke, alas, a slightly overweight guy who looks like a mildly overbearing 'bit of a laugh' geezer with no more insight than any other guy at the bar. We've therefore recruited on hunches and dealt in relatively basic amateurish ways, trying to be smart and tough, but being completely outflanked by those with a more strategic and planned approach. Ignored by some, exploited by others on timing, approach, etc Hence, without a joined up strategy - we've not created a coherent playing system: we constantly look disjointed. We've not recruited the right players who will fit into a system. (Allen, Imbula... constantly hoping they'll be convertable into a DM we need, or Diouf can play RAF etc) (This devalues those players we do play, like Arnie - a 25m player for us but a 50m player in a team playing a more coherent system one year later?) Without expert due diligence, we've not spotted what should have been obvious with Palacious, Jese and Beharinho - that these guys were mentally unfit and ill-equipped. We've neglected the psychology and fitness of the squad:- hence the inability to get the team to reach peak performance levels and, too frequently, it plays like its got the collective flu or a malaise; out of confusion and lack of focus. Lack of structure means we act too slowly in transfer windows - so arrive at new seasons unprepared And sentiment and presumptions usurps data - so we too slowly recognise when players should be got rid of. (Ryan 12-15 months ago?) And no youth players come through because there is no process to educate, integrate: no intelligent tracking of their progress, no skills to know what the next best thing to do with this crop is - loan, develop, let go etc. While wanting self-sustainability, we've acted contrary to this at every turn. Even this window: Afobe, Ince and Maclean bought at peak values we'll never recoup. Dead money on Williams. All a mismatch of intent and action . ... creating a view there has been a shortage of investment, but its more there has been a shortage of investment with any return. And a cosy culture has evolved around all of this, that forgives failure without the skills to diagnose and analyse performance. As its not clear who is responsible for what, then Hughes and Cartwright get to hang on for way longer than they should. Stoke City need to modernise as an organisation. Great post Suffolk, great if sad (the reality not the post !) |
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Post by jordan9915 on Aug 23, 2018 10:34:16 GMT
All I’m going to say is people need to stop having a go at GR’s ‘style of football’. Because I think his plan A style is excellent! Look back to the first 25 minutes yesterday, the passing was crisp, the attacks were quick, we got the ball on the floor, we got down the wing and got crosses is, we looked threatening. That’s Rowetts style of football. It’s not his fault his left back cannot defend and once we go a goal behind the whole teams heads drop. Admittedly he doesn’t have a plan B but if our players had the right mentality, we wouldn’t need I use the classic ‘long ball up to crouch’
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Post by future100 on Aug 23, 2018 10:39:35 GMT
Agreed, I actually feel sorry for Rowett, imagine how this job was sold to him and what he has ended up to work with. How can Rowett not carry the can for the dreadful performances? when he was interviewed he must have convinced the Directors that he was the man for the job and had the answers. The problems within the squad were there when he was interviewed and surely must have been touched on. So far the performances, recruitment and playing style are all down to the manager and leave a lot to be desired. |
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Post by philb on Aug 23, 2018 10:45:37 GMT
All I’m going to say is people need to stop having a go at GR’s ‘style of football’. Because I think his plan A style is excellent! Look back to the first 25 minutes yesterday, the passing was crisp, the attacks were quick, we got the ball on the floor, we got down the wing and got crosses is, we looked threatening. That’s Rowetts style of football. It’s not his fault his left back cannot defend and once we go a goal behind the whole teams heads drop. Admittedly he doesn’t have a plan B but if our players had the right mentality, we wouldn’t need I use the classic ‘long ball up to crouch’ That’s 25 minutes out of a collective 360 that we’ve attempted to play some football. That’s nowhere near good enough and whilst we have all the behind the scenes shenanigans with Coates, Scholes and Cartwright, when the players step on the pitch it’s down to the manager to get the best out of them. At the moment he clearly isn’t and looks out of his depth. |
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Post by stokie1954 on Aug 23, 2018 10:53:43 GMT
Bollocks, I made this post about the manager after Sheikh's about the board, to save myself re-hashing the same points...
Pre-Season: Wank results playing wank football and the only benefit is you could validate it by saying they're new to the 4-3-3 and they can use the games to get used to the system. That'd be all well and good except he then dropped the system after a single fucking game, so all of that was for naught.
Signings: Where to start here, I won't bother going through them all one by one; but a few major points. -Not only have we managed to shift absolutely none of our deadwood, we have signed up McClean to a fucking 4 year contract so we can enjoy having him knocking about being unable to control a football till the age of about 40. -Our midfield two, which was our weakest point last season and probably the chief reason we were relegated, hasn't changed at all. -We have a limited amount of loan signings we can make and we wasted one of the fuckers on Cuco fucking Martina, a third fucking right back. -Not a single one of our players has come off of a good season, Etebo was relegated, McClean was relegated, Afobe barely played, Federici hasn't in years, Ince did more or less nothing for a calendar year and William's biggest contribution seemed to be fighting his own fucking fans. They're all shitting themselves, they have no confidence and half of them are wank players. Football: Changes formation every week, doesn't even know how he wants to play so our transfer policy has reflected it in signing a bunch of players which aren't what we need and can't play together. We are hoofing it up and playing direct, which would be fine if we had a single fucking player capable of winning a header, you can't play the way he is and not start Crouch. Crucially the style, formation and more or less everything is utterly unclear, Lambert joined midway through a transfer window, had none of his own players and had us set up a lot better then this for fucks sake. Quite crucially Rowett has had an easy job, spent the most money in the league, kept all of the players we wanted to bar Shaqiri and somehow he doesn't know something as basic as what our best formation even is, let alone have us play in a way that looks cohesive for even a second. The club is run like shit, but thus far Rowett has done nothing right. Not to mention spending six million on a player who has injury issues!. |
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Post by stokeson on Aug 23, 2018 11:01:09 GMT
So we were relegated because of Rowett. All the Shit players on long contracts are because of Rowett. Pinky and perky upstairs are still there because of Rowett. He has been here 6 weeks and has wrecked the club.
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Post by Stokyo on Aug 23, 2018 11:31:01 GMT
Agreed, I actually feel sorry for Rowett, imagine how this job was sold to him and what he has ended up to work with. How can Rowett not carry the can for the dreadful performances? when he was interviewed he must have convinced the Directors that he was the man for the job and had the answers. The problems within the squad were there when he was interviewed and surely must have been touched on. So far the performances, recruitment and playing style are all down to the manager and leave a lot to be desired. The recruitment is not down to the manager, we know Scholes and Cartwright are heavily involved if not completely in charge. The squad was promised an overhaul from the board, this hasnt happened so Rowetts stuck with all the chancers who failed us last season. Coates must carry the can for this, buck stops with him. The rot was here way before Rowett. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 11:32:20 GMT
All I’m going to say is people need to stop having a go at GR’s ‘style of football’. Because I think his plan A style is excellent! Look back to the first 25 minutes yesterday, the passing was crisp, the attacks were quick, we got the ball on the floor, we got down the wing and got crosses is, we looked threatening. That’s Rowetts style of football. It’s not his fault his left back cannot defend and once we go a goal behind the whole teams heads drop. Admittedly he doesn’t have a plan B but if our players had the right mentality, we wouldn’t need I use the classic ‘long ball up to crouch’ If it's not his fault (the man who picks him) then who's fault is it. I am beginning to suspect that Managers at Stoke are forced to play certain players, Shawcross an obvious example, Berahino another but then why would you take the job on that basis and then why would you not walk before it dragged your career down. Someone needs to own up as to what is going on as again it's already clear the squad is divided and relegation looms again. |
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 23, 2018 11:35:13 GMT
All I’m going to say is people need to stop having a go at GR’s ‘style of football’. Because I think his plan A style is excellent! Look back to the first 25 minutes yesterday, the passing was crisp, the attacks were quick, we got the ball on the floor, we got down the wing and got crosses is, we looked threatening. That’s Rowetts style of football. It’s not his fault his left back cannot defend and once we go a goal behind the whole teams heads drop. Admittedly he doesn’t have a plan B but if our players had the right mentality, we wouldn’t need I use the classic ‘long ball up to crouch’ If it's not his fault (the man who picks him) then who's fault is it. I am beginning to suspect that Managers at Stoke are forced to play certain players, Shawcross an obvious example, Berahino another but then why would you take the job on that basis and then why would you not walk before it dragged your career down. Someone needs to own up as to what is going on as again it's already clear the squad is divided and relegation looms again. Berahino ? Dont think any manager has been forced to play him at all, and he should never have been subbed last night either |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 11:35:22 GMT
It's blame equally split between everyone from the owners down, through the CEO, Tech Director, Manager and coaching staff to the players.
All to a man haven't done enough in their roles, else we wouldn't be in this position.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2018 11:40:23 GMT
How can Rowett not carry the can for the dreadful performances? when he was interviewed he must have convinced the Directors that he was the man for the job and had the answers. The problems within the squad were there when he was interviewed and surely must have been touched on. So far the performances, recruitment and playing style are all down to the manager and leave a lot to be desired. The recruitment is not down to the manager, we know Scholes and Cartwright are heavily involved if not completely in charge. The squad was promised an overhaul from the board, this hasnt happened so Rowetts stuck with all the chancers who failed us last season. Coates must carry the can for this, buck stops with him. The rot was here way before Rowett. The recruitment is down to the manager ultimately. The vast majority of players we’ve signed this summer were Rowett’s men. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 11:41:39 GMT
Bollocks, I made this post about the manager after Sheikh's about the board, to save myself re-hashing the same points...
Pre-Season: Wank results playing wank football and the only benefit is you could validate it by saying they're new to the 4-3-3 and they can use the games to get used to the system. That'd be all well and good except he then dropped the system after a single fucking game, so all of that was for naught.
Signings: Where to start here, I won't bother going through them all one by one; but a few major points. -Not only have we managed to shift absolutely none of our deadwood, we have signed up McClean to a fucking 4 year contract so we can enjoy having him knocking about being unable to control a football till the age of about 40. -Our midfield two, which was our weakest point last season and probably the chief reason we were relegated, hasn't changed at all. -We have a limited amount of loan signings we can make and we wasted one of the fuckers on Cuco fucking Martina, a third fucking right back. -Not a single one of our players has come off of a good season, Etebo was relegated, McClean was relegated, Afobe barely played, Federici hasn't in years, Ince did more or less nothing for a calendar year and William's biggest contribution seemed to be fighting his own fucking fans. They're all shitting themselves, they have no confidence and half of them are wank players. Football: Changes formation every week, doesn't even know how he wants to play so our transfer policy has reflected it in signing a bunch of players which aren't what we need and can't play together. We are hoofing it up and playing direct, which would be fine if we had a single fucking player capable of winning a header, you can't play the way he is and not start Crouch. Crucially the style, formation and more or less everything is utterly unclear, Lambert joined midway through a transfer window, had none of his own players and had us set up a lot better then this for fucks sake. Quite crucially Rowett has had an easy job, spent the most money in the league, kept all of the players we wanted to bar Shaqiri and somehow he doesn't know something as basic as what our best formation even is, let alone have us play in a way that looks cohesive for even a second. The club is run like shit, but thus far Rowett has done nothing right. Re read the post Rowett is NOT right for SCFC but he is not teh underlying issue - it is how we are run I read the post, he too is an issue. His signings have been his signings, he made that very clear. He hasn't strengthened were we need strengthening and the players he have signed have been of the same broken mentality we already have, he is a big reason we are where we are now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 11:45:13 GMT
Bollocks, I made this post about the manager after Sheikh's about the board, to save myself re-hashing the same points...
Pre-Season: Wank results playing wank football and the only benefit is you could validate it by saying they're new to the 4-3-3 and they can use the games to get used to the system. That'd be all well and good except he then dropped the system after a single fucking game, so all of that was for naught.
Signings: Where to start here, I won't bother going through them all one by one; but a few major points. -Not only have we managed to shift absolutely none of our deadwood, we have signed up McClean to a fucking 4 year contract so we can enjoy having him knocking about being unable to control a football till the age of about 40. -Our midfield two, which was our weakest point last season and probably the chief reason we were relegated, hasn't changed at all. -We have a limited amount of loan signings we can make and we wasted one of the fuckers on Cuco fucking Martina, a third fucking right back. -Not a single one of our players has come off of a good season, Etebo was relegated, McClean was relegated, Afobe barely played, Federici hasn't in years, Ince did more or less nothing for a calendar year and William's biggest contribution seemed to be fighting his own fucking fans. They're all shitting themselves, they have no confidence and half of them are wank players. Football: Changes formation every week, doesn't even know how he wants to play so our transfer policy has reflected it in signing a bunch of players which aren't what we need and can't play together. We are hoofing it up and playing direct, which would be fine if we had a single fucking player capable of winning a header, you can't play the way he is and not start Crouch. Crucially the style, formation and more or less everything is utterly unclear, Lambert joined midway through a transfer window, had none of his own players and had us set up a lot better then this for fucks sake. Quite crucially Rowett has had an easy job, spent the most money in the league, kept all of the players we wanted to bar Shaqiri and somehow he doesn't know something as basic as what our best formation even is, let alone have us play in a way that looks cohesive for even a second. The club is run like shit, but thus far Rowett has done nothing right. Not to mention spending six million on a player who has injury issues!. That was Clucas' first injury in his entire career... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 11:46:03 GMT
If it's not his fault (the man who picks him) then who's fault is it. I am beginning to suspect that Managers at Stoke are forced to play certain players, Shawcross an obvious example, Berahino another but then why would you take the job on that basis and then why would you not walk before it dragged your career down. Someone needs to own up as to what is going on as again it's already clear the squad is divided and relegation looms again. Berahino ? Dont think any manager has been forced to play him at all, and he should never have been subbed last night either No he shouldn't have even been at the club after last season. |
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Post by stokeypieman on Aug 23, 2018 12:04:41 GMT
As I see it all the teams we have played were used to the style of play in the championship, even Wigan, but we have made a lot of changes and the players dont have that feeling for where each is or is going to be so the passes are wayward. The manager is trying to put together a good team but the players he needs wont come to us and we have to have alternatives. His saying a return to basics is to pass better and support each other as a team not working as individuals.
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Post by stokie1954 on Aug 23, 2018 12:42:30 GMT
Not to mention spending six million on a player who has injury issues!. That was Clucas' first injury in his entire career... Ok. So why buy him if he is currently injured?. You fuckin rant about everything else!. Did you forget that little nugget?. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 12:47:01 GMT
That was Clucas' first injury in his entire career... Ok. So why buy him if he is currently injured?. You fuckin rant about everything else!. Did you forget that little nugget?. You don’t not sign a player you want just because he’s out injured for a few weeks. |
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