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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 12:56:17 GMT
Fixed bayonets would have been a better option? Grow up!
You’re clearly a moron.
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Sept 1, 2018 13:06:04 GMT
I certainly don't support them when they are in the wrong. I was for example heavily involved in the legal case against GMP some years back when they compulsorily ( and quite illegally) bussed about 80 Stoke fans back from Irlam when we were playing at OT, which resulted in lots of compensation for the fans involved, or again when GMP compulsorily marched a group of stokies from Victoria to Piccadilly stations after we played at Bolton. As a generalisation, I think football policing is quite a lot better than it used to be ( and it needed to be) but each case needs to be assessed on its merits and the evidence, which is what we have been trying to do in the Preston case. Also, some police forces are better than others, both in how they police, and how they respond to complaints. I heard about that case and it sounds like you did a stellar job. It is not fair that football fans continue to be tarred as scum and hooligans. Most people just want to watch the game, have a few drinks and go home. You rarely see violence at football games these days and the stuff you do see, isn't usually 'organised hooliganism', rather a couple of lads fall out over something in the pub then it spills outside etc. The two things aren't actually the same. Pub brawls happen every week and don't necessarily involve football. It is a lot better and I've even had the odd bit of banter with police in recent times, for example when walking to the Hawthorns last season. The police essentially walked us all the way there, but they were a good sport about it and we had some fun taking the mickey out of a couple of them who were Wolves fans. I do have memories (albeit faded as I was a teenager) of the early days at the Brit when it was a real problem though. I know there's a fine line. A few drunk football fans arguing over a table can easily turn into a 10-15 man brawl and police are cautious because of that. There was no chance of that happening with my old man though. It was simply a copper over-exercising his powers for no real reason. What annoys me is that Chester is akin to a war zone on race day and the police just laugh and let the drunk hooligans get away with it because 'its not football' One law etc .....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 13:32:13 GMT
Has you seen these 20 emails Malcolm or is this more evidence that can’t be shared? I haven't actually got copies of them. What I said is based on a detailed discussion I had with the police about what is in them. I have no reason to believe that their summary and quotes aren't fair and accurate. It they were going to make things up, which would be a foolish and short-sighted thing to do, they probably wouldn't for example, say that the majority were critical of the police. There may of course be data protection problems about releasing individual emails sent by members of the public, without permission of the senders. On the general point about transparency, I can only assure you that on this issue Lancs police have been way more transparent than most if not all other police forces would have been. Inviting us, Stoke City FC and the Football League to the internal debriefing meeting is highly progressive, but also unique in our experience. Were ( god forbid) a similar incident to occur at one of our two forthcoming visits to South Yorkshire, I think it is highly unlikely that we would get anything approaching this degree of transparency. I do hope that we don't have to put that to the test, although I must confess another Saturday 5.30 kick-off at Rotherham does worry me. This is absolutely key here. It's not for you to release other people's communications without permission - redacted or otherwise. There is a risk that people not involved are taking offence on behalf of those that were. Anybody who was there and affected by it has the absolute right to pursue it - I'd suggest people started with a Freedom of Information request. It's an interesting case to look at but I wouldnt get involved myself without those actually there also raising it. The incident with the stewards is an interesting angle and something that you would want police checking. It'd be interesting though to get further details of this: - testing of radio equipment; - time of last communication with them; - what was found to be the issue with the equipment; - the location of any potential incident in relation to what happened; - details of any other radio equipment failure on the day. Other very good points raised by Gods too in terms of when it has been an option/used for all other games at Deepdale - especially in relation to how many games there have been public disorder issues and concern for safety of others. I'm 50/50 on this one from the albeit limited details available. There is a balance between the stupid behaviour from the bunch of muppets (behaviour which, sadly, nobody is actually surprised at) and then the Police acting outside of the law. I get that there might be reduced risk using spray than whacking a couple of the cunts, but that has to take consideration the risk and safety to others. Spray is far more indiscriminate as you certainly cant control it and who it affects - so confirmation of assessment of risk to others who were not involved would be vital.
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aderc
Academy Starlet
Posts: 194
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Post by aderc on Sept 1, 2018 13:56:28 GMT
Cowardly? There are few people more cowardly than your average copper. That’s an appalling thing to say and incredibly disrespectful. I hope for your sake you’ll never need the police to help you but it would almost serve you right if they turned up and just watched, all cowardly like. This attitude towards the police nowadays is part of the problem with society, no respect for the police, I think it is disgusting to be honest. Sorry but this has wound me up no end. Respect is something that is earned, not something that you have an automatic right to just because you're in a uniform. Personal experience has taught me to have zero respect for the police, and I have nothing but contempt and hatred for them. When I needed their help when my family were suffering ongoing harassment from neighbours, they didn't want to know. Multiple occasions they had the chance to step in and nip it in the bud but failed to do so despite numerous witnesses to several incidents. Culminated in me being attacked on my own doorstep, defending myself (with pepper spray, coincidentally) and me being arrested and charged with ABH. Police (Cheshire police) failed to take statements from several key witnesses (who later appeared in court in my defence) just to ensure that the CPS pressed charges. During the run up to the court hearing, more incidents occurred with the neighbours, including the woman deliberately driving her car at my partner and kids on the way to school (again with independent witnesses). No action from the useless plod again for what was blindingly obvious witness intimidation. I took the piss in court, making the plod and the CPS look like the useless scum they are. Jury gave a unanimous not guilty verdict for the most obvious case of self defence you'll ever see. Complaint about the way the case was handled by the police was brushed under the carpet as they closed ranks like they always seem to do. So pardon me for not having any respect for them. Wouldn't piss on a copper that was on fire unless I knew my bladder was full of petrol.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2018 14:13:00 GMT
I heard about that case and it sounds like you did a stellar job. It is not fair that football fans continue to be tarred as scum and hooligans. Most people just want to watch the game, have a few drinks and go home. You rarely see violence at football games these days and the stuff you do see, isn't usually 'organised hooliganism', rather a couple of lads fall out over something in the pub then it spills outside etc. The two things aren't actually the same. Pub brawls happen every week and don't necessarily involve football. It is a lot better and I've even had the odd bit of banter with police in recent times, for example when walking to the Hawthorns last season. The police essentially walked us all the way there, but they were a good sport about it and we had some fun taking the mickey out of a couple of them who were Wolves fans. I do have memories (albeit faded as I was a teenager) of the early days at the Brit when it was a real problem though. I know there's a fine line. A few drunk football fans arguing over a table can easily turn into a 10-15 man brawl and police are cautious because of that. There was no chance of that happening with my old man though. It was simply a copper over-exercising his powers for no real reason. What annoys me is that Chester is akin to a war zone on race day and the police just laugh and let the drunk hooligans get away with it because 'its not football' One law etc ..... entirely believable. Rugby fans don't fight except they do, it's just not readily reported.
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Sept 1, 2018 14:31:47 GMT
What annoys me is that Chester is akin to a war zone on race day and the police just laugh and let the drunk hooligans get away with it because 'its not football' One law etc ..... entirely believable. Rugby fans don't fight except they do, it's just not readily reported. Probably not the code your referring to metal but once saw a massive dust up between Saints and Wigan fans so yup your right mate
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 16:11:56 GMT
Fixed bayonets would have been a better option? Grow up!
You’re clearly a moron.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 1, 2018 19:21:47 GMT
I've seen the kid and his dad who claimed to be caught in the crossfire at every game since after reading in the sentinel that the kid was so traumatised that he would never go to another game
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 19:23:42 GMT
What annoys me is that Chester is akin to a war zone on race day and the police just laugh and let the drunk hooligans get away with it because 'its not football' One law etc ..... entirely believable. Rugby fans don't fight except they do, it's just not readily reported. Go to the Hull FC/Hull KR Derby, it’s like World War III......
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2018 20:32:15 GMT
entirely believable. Rugby fans don't fight except they do, it's just not readily reported. Go to the Hull FC/Hull KR Derby, it’s like World War III...... Oh really? I thought rugby fans are pillars of society.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 1, 2018 20:49:12 GMT
I haven't actually got copies of them. What I said is based on a detailed discussion I had with the police about what is in them. I have no reason to believe that their summary and quotes aren't fair and accurate. It they were going to make things up, which would be a foolish and short-sighted thing to do, they probably wouldn't for example, say that the majority were critical of the police. There may of course be data protection problems about releasing individual emails sent by members of the public, without permission of the senders. On the general point about transparency, I can only assure you that on this issue Lancs police have been way more transparent than most if not all other police forces would have been. Inviting us, Stoke City FC and the Football League to the internal debriefing meeting is highly progressive, but also unique in our experience. Were ( god forbid) a similar incident to occur at one of our two forthcoming visits to South Yorkshire, I think it is highly unlikely that we would get anything approaching this degree of transparency. I do hope that we don't have to put that to the test, although I must confess another Saturday 5.30 kick-off at Rotherham does worry me. This is absolutely key here. It's not for you to release other people's communications without permission - redacted or otherwise. There is a risk that people not involved are taking offence on behalf of those that were. Anybody who was there and affected by it has the absolute right to pursue it - I'd suggest people started with a Freedom of Information request. It's an interesting case to look at but I wouldnt get involved myself without those actually there also raising it. The incident with the stewards is an interesting angle and something that you would want police checking. It'd be interesting though to get further details of this: - testing of radio equipment; - time of last communication with them; - what was found to be the issue with the equipment; - the location of any potential incident in relation to what happened; - details of any other radio equipment failure on the day. Other very good points raised by Gods too in terms of when it has been an option/used for all other games at Deepdale - especially in relation to how many games there have been public disorder issues and concern for safety of others. I'm 50/50 on this one from the albeit limited details available. There is a balance between the stupid behaviour from the bunch of muppets (behaviour which, sadly, nobody is actually surprised at) and then the Police acting outside of the law. I get that there might be reduced risk using spray than whacking a couple of the cunts, but that has to take consideration the risk and safety to others. Spray is far more indiscriminate as you certainly cant control it and who it affects - so confirmation of assessment of risk to others who were not involved would be vital. I pretty much agree with nearly all of that. From the FSF perspective it remains the case that no-one who was directly affected has asked us for help in making a complaint or considering legal action. No-one, whether directly affected or not, has provided us with a witness statement, despite my requests for people to do so. Our involvement therefore arises from the police invitation to us ( along with Stoke City and the Football League) to attend the de-briefing meeting, which as I have stated above is a highly unusual but very progressive thing to do. My colleague Amanda attended that meeting, contributed to it by asking relevant questions and has written up her conclusions which we have put into the public domain. Although we know that police investigations are continuing, we may be very close to the point where we close the case, as it were.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 2, 2018 7:38:15 GMT
I've seen the kid and his dad who claimed to be caught in the crossfire at every game since after reading in the sentinel that the kid was so traumatised that he would never go to another game Well it's good that he's still going. When I last spoke to the police, which was 9 days ago now, the problem they had was that despite having trawled through all the CCTV footage in slow motion, they couldn't identify him, so couldn't make any assessment of how and at what point he came to be affected. They were not in any way disputing the accuracy of what he and his dad said on TV, but obviously if they are going to investigate it, need to know exactly where they were. They were going to try to make contact. That was 9 days ago, and for all I know contact may have been established by now. If it hasn't, and the family read this, they should definitely contact the Lancs police. Having chosen to go on TV about it, which of course is their right in a free society, it's only right to also give all the relevant information directly to the police to enable them to properly investigate it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 9:24:19 GMT
This is absolutely key here. It's not for you to release other people's communications without permission - redacted or otherwise. There is a risk that people not involved are taking offence on behalf of those that were. Anybody who was there and affected by it has the absolute right to pursue it - I'd suggest people started with a Freedom of Information request. It's an interesting case to look at but I wouldnt get involved myself without those actually there also raising it. The incident with the stewards is an interesting angle and something that you would want police checking. It'd be interesting though to get further details of this: - testing of radio equipment; - time of last communication with them; - what was found to be the issue with the equipment; - the location of any potential incident in relation to what happened; - details of any other radio equipment failure on the day. Other very good points raised by Gods too in terms of when it has been an option/used for all other games at Deepdale - especially in relation to how many games there have been public disorder issues and concern for safety of others. I'm 50/50 on this one from the albeit limited details available. There is a balance between the stupid behaviour from the bunch of muppets (behaviour which, sadly, nobody is actually surprised at) and then the Police acting outside of the law. I get that there might be reduced risk using spray than whacking a couple of the cunts, but that has to take consideration the risk and safety to others. Spray is far more indiscriminate as you certainly cant control it and who it affects - so confirmation of assessment of risk to others who were not involved would be vital. I pretty much agree with nearly all of that. From the FSF perspective it remains the case that no-one who was directly affected has asked us for help in making a complaint or considering legal action. No-one, whether directly affected or not, has provided us with a witness statement, despite my requests for people to do so. Our involvement therefore arises from the police invitation to us ( along with Stoke City and the Football League) to attend the de-briefing meeting, which as I have stated above is a highly unusual but very progressive thing to do. My colleague Amanda attended that meeting, contributed to it by asking relevant questions and has written up her conclusions which we have put into the public domain. Although we know that police investigations are continuing, we may be very close to the point where we close the case, as it were. The fact remains that none of us know the findings of this so called internal investigation. The story about the stewards COULD be a total fabrication, the emails of support for the police that none of us have been privy to COULD be made up. And with respect the police have form, so forgive me for being cynical. If everything is released and transparent and it is deemed proportionate action happy days. But it hasn’t so why should people accept what has been said so far, they have no reason to.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 20:44:49 GMT
Hmm...see the guy nearly choking and covering his mouth near the very end, this is far more dangerous.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 2, 2018 23:27:31 GMT
I pretty much agree with nearly all of that. From the FSF perspective it remains the case that no-one who was directly affected has asked us for help in making a complaint or considering legal action. No-one, whether directly affected or not, has provided us with a witness statement, despite my requests for people to do so. Our involvement therefore arises from the police invitation to us ( along with Stoke City and the Football League) to attend the de-briefing meeting, which as I have stated above is a highly unusual but very progressive thing to do. My colleague Amanda attended that meeting, contributed to it by asking relevant questions and has written up her conclusions which we have put into the public domain. Although we know that police investigations are continuing, we may be very close to the point where we close the case, as it were. The fact remains that none of us know the findings of this so called internal investigation. The story about the stewards COULD be a total fabrication, the emails of support for the police that none of us have been privy to COULD be made up. And with respect the police have form, so forgive me for being cynical. If everything is released and transparent and it is deemed proportionate action happy days. But it hasn’t so why should people accept what has been said so far, they have no reason to..... At the end of the day, everyone will make up their own minds about what they believe and what they don't believe. All I can say is that we have far more information about this incident and the investigation into it than I have ever known before in this kind of situation. Both myself and (even more so ) my colleague Amanda are very experienced in dealing with matters of this kind, and neither of us are naive or soft on the police when they do things wrong, as the record shows. Amanda went to the debriefing meeting and has set out her conclusions and her reasoning at some length in her blog. I have given some conclusions above. Neither of us think that the police did the right thing in using pava but understand how it came to be used. We are both as sure as we can be that neither of things you mention as possibly being fabrications, are in fact so. I don't think there is anything else I can add.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 2, 2018 23:32:40 GMT
Hmm...see the guy nearly choking and covering his mouth near the very end, this is far more dangerous. I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans.
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Post by nottspotter on Sept 3, 2018 6:07:15 GMT
Hmm...see the guy nearly choking and covering his mouth near the very end, this is far more dangerous. I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans. I suspect, Malcolm, that he’s just having a bit of a tongue-in-cheek dig at the lancs police who thought out behaviour was worthy of pepper spray.. whereas this behaviour apparently was not.
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Post by tijuanabrass on Sept 3, 2018 8:44:04 GMT
In this case, the fear that the stewards might be on the floor turned out to be unfounded. They were sheltering in a turnstile. What, like Terry & Julie were just 'sheltering' in the shed at the vicars garden party, when her dress fell off... Ah, Ray Davies’ great lost lyric
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Post by flea79 on Sept 3, 2018 8:45:07 GMT
This is absolutely key here. It's not for you to release other people's communications without permission - redacted or otherwise. There is a risk that people not involved are taking offence on behalf of those that were. Anybody who was there and affected by it has the absolute right to pursue it - I'd suggest people started with a Freedom of Information request. It's an interesting case to look at but I wouldnt get involved myself without those actually there also raising it. The incident with the stewards is an interesting angle and something that you would want police checking. It'd be interesting though to get further details of this: - testing of radio equipment; - time of last communication with them; - what was found to be the issue with the equipment; - the location of any potential incident in relation to what happened; - details of any other radio equipment failure on the day. Other very good points raised by Gods too in terms of when it has been an option/used for all other games at Deepdale - especially in relation to how many games there have been public disorder issues and concern for safety of others. I'm 50/50 on this one from the albeit limited details available. There is a balance between the stupid behaviour from the bunch of muppets (behaviour which, sadly, nobody is actually surprised at) and then the Police acting outside of the law. I get that there might be reduced risk using spray than whacking a couple of the cunts, but that has to take consideration the risk and safety to others. Spray is far more indiscriminate as you certainly cant control it and who it affects - so confirmation of assessment of risk to others who were not involved would be vital. I pretty much agree with nearly all of that. From the FSF perspective it remains the case that no-one who was directly affected has asked us for help in making a complaint or considering legal action. No-one, whether directly affected or not, has provided us with a witness statement, despite my requests for people to do so. Our involvement therefore arises from the police invitation to us ( along with Stoke City and the Football League) to attend the de-briefing meeting, which as I have stated above is a highly unusual but very progressive thing to do. My colleague Amanda attended that meeting, contributed to it by asking relevant questions and has written up her conclusions which we have put into the public domain. Although we know that police investigations are continuing, we may be very close to the point where we close the case, as it were. Malcolm i can send you over a copy of the email i sent to PNE police re what i saw on the day, it was fair and didnt paint some of our fans in a good light, i am happy to send this over to yourselves too, i did get a response from the officer who was emailed thanking me for my observations. but to be honest it seems to be pointless to go any further as the police on the face of it seem to have closed ranks regarding the incident and will hide behind the safety of the stewards issue which is obviously rubbish as when they sprayed us they were well past where the stewards had gone. i did ask if something could be made public regarding the justification on the use of the spray, the NPCC guidelines state that is down to the officers discretion within legal frameworks as set out by the top brass
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 3, 2018 10:08:26 GMT
I pretty much agree with nearly all of that. From the FSF perspective it remains the case that no-one who was directly affected has asked us for help in making a complaint or considering legal action. No-one, whether directly affected or not, has provided us with a witness statement, despite my requests for people to do so. Our involvement therefore arises from the police invitation to us ( along with Stoke City and the Football League) to attend the de-briefing meeting, which as I have stated above is a highly unusual but very progressive thing to do. My colleague Amanda attended that meeting, contributed to it by asking relevant questions and has written up her conclusions which we have put into the public domain. Although we know that police investigations are continuing, we may be very close to the point where we close the case, as it were. Malcolm i can send you over a copy of the email i sent to PNE police re what i saw on the day, it was fair and didnt paint some of our fans in a good light, i am happy to send this over to yourselves too, i did get a response from the officer who was emailed thanking me for my observations. but to be honest it seems to be pointless to go any further as the police on the face of it seem to have closed ranks regarding the incident and will hide behind the safety of the stewards issue which is obviously rubbish as when they sprayed us they were well past where the stewards had gone. i did ask if something could be made public regarding the justification on the use of the spray, the NPCC guidelines state that is down to the officers discretion within legal frameworks as set out by the top brass That would be very helpful, flea. info@fsf.org.uk
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 11:09:58 GMT
Hmm...see the guy nearly choking and covering his mouth near the very end, this is far more dangerous. I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans. Let’s call it a frustrated dig. Seems like other sets of fans get away with murder, Leeds fans week in, week out climbing on the framework of the terraces etc... Bolton here with evidently more than 1 smoke bomb, clowning around, how did they even get it in? I got searched pretty thoroughly at Preston, anything on me would’ve quite easily been found... I see videos most weeks on Twitter of how some sets of fans behave, pretty consistently, yet the only instance of PAVA was our trip a few weeks ago - what makes it so different? I struggle to accept ours was such an exceptional case and there was no better option, yet it gets brushed away without even so much as a public apology...
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 3, 2018 11:58:51 GMT
What, like Terry & Julie were just 'sheltering' in the shed at the vicars garden party, when her dress fell off... Ah, Ray Davies’ great lost lyric 1st band I saw live.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 3, 2018 12:09:25 GMT
Hmm...see the guy nearly choking and covering his mouth near the very end, this is far more dangerous. I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans. Oh don't be so poh faces Malcolm. It's obviously racism through & through. The only reason the Lancs police didn't spray them Bolton fans is cause they're from Lancs.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 3, 2018 12:58:19 GMT
I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans. Let’s call it a frustrated dig. Seems like other sets of fans get away with murder, Leeds fans week in, week out climbing on the framework of the terraces etc... Bolton here with evidently more than 1 smoke bomb, clowning around, how did they even get it in? I got searched pretty thoroughly at Preston, anything on me would’ve quite easily been found... I see videos most weeks on Twitter of how some sets of fans behave, pretty consistently, yet the only instance of PAVA was our trip a few weeks ago - what makes it so different? I struggle to accept ours was such an exceptional case and there was no better option, yet it gets brushed away without even so much as a public apology... Actually they often don't get away with it, Dan. The videos get posted, but often not the aftermath. The FSF is often asked to support and advise fans who are facing the possibility of a club ban, or worse, a football banning order. You are right that the use of pava on a football concourse is highly unusual. Without repeating what has been said above, what made ours different, was the belief that the stewards may have been on the floor. Now I'm not saying either (a) that belief was reasonable on the evidence or (b) that pava was an appropriate, or the most appropriate, response. I don't think it was. But that was the reason it was used. Whatever view you take of the incident, I don't think it is accurate to say that it has been brushed away by the police. If it was we would not have been invited to the internal de-briefing meeting which was externally facilitated.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 3, 2018 13:04:30 GMT
Surely you've got to consider whether pepper spray would be effective in a smoke bomb environment and if it was used would it cause a more dangerous chemical reaction! We need answers!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 13:26:55 GMT
Let’s call it a frustrated dig. Seems like other sets of fans get away with murder, Leeds fans week in, week out climbing on the framework of the terraces etc... Bolton here with evidently more than 1 smoke bomb, clowning around, how did they even get it in? I got searched pretty thoroughly at Preston, anything on me would’ve quite easily been found... I see videos most weeks on Twitter of how some sets of fans behave, pretty consistently, yet the only instance of PAVA was our trip a few weeks ago - what makes it so different? I struggle to accept ours was such an exceptional case and there was no better option, yet it gets brushed away without even so much as a public apology... Actually they often don't get away with it, Dan. The videos get posted, but often not the aftermath. The FSF is often asked to support and advise fans who are facing the possibility of a club ban, or worse, a football banning order. You are right that the use of pava on a football concourse is highly unusual. Without repeating what has been said above, what made ours different, was the belief that the stewards may have been on the floor. Now I'm not saying either (a) that belief was reasonable on the evidence or (b) that pava was an appropriate, or the most appropriate, response. I don't think it was. But that was the reason it was used. Whatever view you take of the incident, I don't think it is accurate to say that it has been brushed away by the police. If it was we would not have been invited to the internal de-briefing meeting which was externally facilitated. Nice to hear at times it does get dealt this. The rest is understandable Malcolm, but really, what would a public apology have cost them? The lack of apology basically sends the message that, 1) they were correct in the way they used it, and 2) wouldn't hesitate in doing so again. I have no problem when idiotic individuals are dealt with and if necessary detained, but when innocent bystanders are affected, it's completely wrong and the lack of public apology to these people is damning.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 23:32:24 GMT
I'm not quite sure what you are saying here in your tweet, Dan ? Presumably not that pava should have been used again on this occasion ? If I'm right, it is obviously not a criticism of the police that they didn't repeat the mistake they made against our fans. Oh don't be so poh faces Malcolm. It's obviously racism through & through. The only reason the Lancs police didn't spray them Bolton fans is cause they're from Lancs. I sometimes can't tell if you are right or left wing
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Post by tijuanabrass on Sept 4, 2018 2:54:04 GMT
Ah, Ray Davies’ great lost lyric 1st band I saw live. Saw them at the Viccy hall 3 time I think. Always brilliant.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 4, 2018 5:49:55 GMT
Oh don't be so poh faces Malcolm. It's obviously racism through & through. The only reason the Lancs police didn't spray them Bolton fans is cause they're from Lancs. I sometimes can't tell if you are right or left wing Good!
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 4, 2018 5:54:19 GMT
Saw them at the Viccy hall 3 time I think. Always brilliant. That's where I saw them, 1981 I think. I bought the T shirt. V good merchandise 👕
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