|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 17:03:40 GMT
You don't know what they do but you criticise them based on that, good one "what do they do that’s good??" Is not the same as: I don't know what they do
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 6, 2018 17:04:43 GMT
You don't know what they do but you criticise them based on that, good one "what do they do that’s good??" Is not the same as: I don't know what they doFair enough.
|
|
|
Post by cwpscfc on Aug 6, 2018 17:06:15 GMT
Tony scholes and Mark Cartwright for me are the biggest problem at the club.... I am not the best a writing down my thoughts but here goes... For a start (Cartwright in particulate) what do they do that’s good?? I feel like they hold back a lot of mangers from getting the best players for the team. They seem to take a lot of power away form the manager. Also they seem have Coates in there pocket. Sorry for my rambling but this is just my thought on the pair.... Your more than welcome with your opinion, we all have one. Think your rather brief in your reasoning, however you are right in what your saying to some extent. Their transfers which they do have a lot to do with over the past few seasons have been nothing short of appalling. Their wages are wasted at this club, as I said they’ve done nothing but fuck us up season after season. Coates obviously believes they’re the best men for the job, I’m pretty sure 80% of stokies think otherwise!! P.S. There is many tools on this forum that are going to call you out on ANYTHING. But fuck em!
|
|
|
Post by danceswithclams on Aug 6, 2018 17:14:36 GMT
Your more than welcome with your opinion, we all have one. There is many tools on this forum that are going to call you out on ANYTHING. But fuck em! There are many tools. You're welcome.
|
|
|
Post by Sfance on Aug 6, 2018 17:16:17 GMT
Unless Scholes and Cartwright have got something on Coates, which I doubt, they are obviously doing exactly what Coates wants them to do. Don't blame the tools, blame the one who holds them.
|
|
|
Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Aug 6, 2018 17:16:49 GMT
Tony scholes and Mark Cartwright for me are the biggest problem at the club.... I am not the best a writing down my thoughts but here goes... For a start (Cartwright in particulate) what do they do that’s good?? I feel like they hold back a lot of mangers from getting the best players for the team. They seem to take a lot of power away form the manager. Also they seem have Coates in there pocket. Sorry for my rambling but this is just my thought on the pair.... That's how it seems to you - but truthfully speaking, we don't fucking know do we?
|
|
|
Post by cwpscfc on Aug 6, 2018 17:18:25 GMT
Your more than welcome with your opinion, we all have one. There is many tools on this forum that are going to call you out on ANYTHING. But fuck em! There are many tools. You're welcome. That is poor to be fair! I’m quite upset with myself. Thanks, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Aug 6, 2018 17:29:08 GMT
Well a loss against Brentford could see the milk turn really sour and 18 months worth of decline come into full focus.. The world would get very toxic for the owners and the pizza boys if that happened.. only a good win will do! Only 18 months?
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Aug 6, 2018 17:29:29 GMT
Pizza boys motto : ' we live and we learn , well, we live ' "we live, we learn, dominoes two for one?"
|
|
|
Post by xchpotter on Aug 6, 2018 17:40:55 GMT
Won’t happen...their incompetence means we aren’t spending or there is a reason for the board to be cautious....all music to the ears of those running the club.
|
|
|
Post by bridgnorthstokie on Aug 6, 2018 17:47:01 GMT
Think serious questions need to be asked of this pair. We had a poor defence last season they've had last season and this summer to find suitable quality players from across Europe and the best they have come up with is a 33yr old from Everton's reserves. Is there really no young hungry quality CB across Europe or in lower leagues they could of targeted??
|
|
|
Post by stokiejoe on Aug 6, 2018 17:53:03 GMT
With all things of this nature it is easy to criticise those on the front line. Look for the controlling minds to see who makes the real decisions and I would suggest you will see the Coates family together with the manager. Rowetthas said categorically that he has the final say and that he has suggested targets who have been signed.
In my opinion Tony and Mark are the journeymen who complete the task. They may make suggestions but not the decisions
The Coates family made the mistake of backing Hughes, which initially paid of then failed spectacularly
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 18:02:50 GMT
Some of their decisions regarding transfers and contracts are baffling.
- Charlie Adam contact extension - Glen Johnson contract extension - £18 million for Wimmer - £12 million relegation release clause for Shaqiri - 5 year contract for a 29 year old (James McClean)
|
|
|
Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 6, 2018 18:02:54 GMT
I think it's fair enough to say that our clubs approach to transfers is highly questionable .
We still seem to have no clear plan and waste money on aging journeymen and lack imagination in who we sign .
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 6, 2018 18:08:13 GMT
You've got to question Rowett as well in all this. It's his decision to not sign Vydra to play off Afobe when he's been available all summer. It's his decision to sign an aging CB in a position where we need pace and mobility. This is proven because he wanted Davies earlier in the summer and Chester who is pushing 30. Rowett's the one who drew up a list of names he wanted the club to sign and yet didn't have Douglas or the lad from Bristol on it.
I do agree though that Carto and Tony are a load of shite, particularly Carto, he should've been sacked in the summer no question.
|
|
|
Post by bangorstokie on Aug 6, 2018 18:12:31 GMT
Disagree I'm afraid. The biggest problem Peter Coates. The bloke is stuck in the 70s I'm afraid. He shows no ambition whatsoever. He thinks that spending a couple of million in the transfer market will see us ok. I say a couple of million cos that's all he's spent after the sale of Shaqiri. where the fuck the parachute payment went is anybodies guess. I'm sure Rowett must be pissed off. Not one of his targeted players has been brought into the club. It's all been left to the two clowns who Coates thinks know best. The worst part is its now to fucking late to bring in the type of players we need. Well done Mr. Coates, yourself and your transfer team, have played a fucking blinder once again, in this transfer window.
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Aug 6, 2018 18:16:06 GMT
Rowett is already pissed off. Something has got to give.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 6, 2018 18:16:33 GMT
Disagree I'm afraid. The biggest problem Peter Coates. The bloke is stuck in the 70s I'm afraid. He shows no ambition whatsoever. He thinks that spending a couple of million in the transfer market will see us ok. I say a couple of million cos that's all he's spent after the sale of Shaqiri. where the fuck the parachute payment went is anybodies guess. I'm sure Rowett must be pissed off. Not one of his targeted players has been brought into the club. It's all been left to the two clowns who Coates thinks know best. The worst part is its now to fucking late to bring in the type of players we need. Well done Mr. Coates, yourself and your transfer team, have played a fucking blinder once again, in this transfer window. Isnt John and Denise more involved now though.
|
|
|
Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Aug 6, 2018 18:19:55 GMT
Disagree I'm afraid. The biggest problem Peter Coates. The bloke is stuck in the 70s I'm afraid. He shows no ambition whatsoever. He thinks that spending a couple of million in the transfer market will see us ok. I say a couple of million cos that's all he's spent after the sale of Shaqiri. where the fuck the parachute payment went is anybodies guess. I'm sure Rowett must be pissed off. Not one of his targeted players has been brought into the club. It's all been left to the two clowns who Coates thinks know best. The worst part is its now to fucking late to bring in the type of players we need. Well done Mr. Coates, yourself and your transfer team, have played a fucking blinder once again, in this transfer window. Isnt John and Denise more involved now though. Truthfully Cobs...I don't think anyone knows! This pair have done more damage to Stoke City in the last few years than a Butler Street roof could ever do.
|
|
|
Post by bangorstokie on Aug 6, 2018 18:23:25 GMT
Disagree I'm afraid. The biggest problem Peter Coates. The bloke is stuck in the 70s I'm afraid. He shows no ambition whatsoever. He thinks that spending a couple of million in the transfer market will see us ok. I say a couple of million cos that's all he's spent after the sale of Shaqiri. where the fuck the parachute payment went is anybodies guess. I'm sure Rowett must be pissed off. Not one of his targeted players has been brought into the club. It's all been left to the two clowns who Coates thinks know best. The worst part is its now to fucking late to bring in the type of players we need. Well done Mr. Coates, yourself and your transfer team, have played a fucking blinder once again, in this transfer window. Isnt John and Denise more involved now though. Well if that's the case it's time for them to sell and let someone with a modicum of ambition try and breathe some life not our ailing club.
|
|
|
Post by bangorstokie on Aug 6, 2018 18:27:35 GMT
Disagree I'm afraid. The biggest problem Peter Coates. The bloke is stuck in the 70s I'm afraid. He shows no ambition whatsoever. He thinks that spending a couple of million in the transfer market will see us ok. I say a couple of million cos that's all he's spent after the sale of Shaqiri. where the fuck the parachute payment went is anybodies guess. I'm sure Rowett must be pissed off. Not one of his targeted players has been brought into the club. It's all been left to the two clowns who Coates thinks know best. The worst part is its now to fucking late to bring in the type of players we need. Well done Mr. Coates, yourself and your transfer team, have played a fucking blinder once again, in this transfer window. Isnt John and Denise more involved now though. If that's the case, it's time for them to sell up and let someone with a modicum of ambition, try and breathe some life into our club.
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 6, 2018 18:30:32 GMT
Didn't GR say he would be banging on Scholes door regularly asking if he had signed the players he wanted. Needs to bang a bit harder
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 18:30:46 GMT
All quiet at Teflon Towers tonight - again !
After yesterday's debacle you would have thought there would be some response and positive action with the window coming to a close in less than three days time now (I know about the loans till the end of the month) but there is just a deafening silence coming out of the club or the media regarding incoming permanent signings.
GR must be getting frustrated as hell with this situation. Do you think he'll stick it out or think stuff it I'm better off out of here and walking away ?
|
|
|
Post by miggoscfc on Aug 6, 2018 18:51:40 GMT
Like it or not we are a business, TS job in particular is to balance the books and thats exactly what he is doing at the moment.
Its probably not a popular opinion i hold but i say hes doing exactly the job hes employed to do right now. We have an aging squad that nobody wants who are earning hundreds of thousands every week and yes that might be of his doing in the first place but you cant just keep signing checks to rectify previous mistakes.
Look at the striker situation Efobe, Crouch, Bera, Choupo, Campbell, Ngoy, Diouf. We play 1 striker and have 7 on the books taking over what 250 - 300k out every week. You could argue only 1 of them is good enough all you want but if ut was your money would you be happy to spend more ?
Midfield: Etebo, Allen, Ndiaye, Ince, Adam, Afellay, Mcclean, Imbula, Fletcher, Bojan, Verlinden, Sorenson.
Its clear the squad is in desperate need of refreshing and is not balanced at all but until players leave its not smart business to bring new players in the problem is nobody wants the shit we have in the first place, agents love getting their players moves because of the financial incentive involved but if the player is going to earn less elsewhere why would they move ?
We are in a shit state and of course a huge part of that falls at his door but right now we only have to look at whats happened over at the villa to see how it could all go drastically wrong if you dont get promoted. People keep going on about the 40m parachute paymemt, the income of the club has massively reduced but the running costs remain the same, the club as an example have made no redundancies thats part of where this money will have gone to run the club and give us the chance to transition to a championship income you cant just spunk it up the wall and hope we go back up again very bad business exactly what villa have done.
My tin hat is firmly in place and i know this will be a very unpopular post but we as fans run on emotion where the club is a business and protecting that business and specifically the P+L is his job and its exactly what he is doing.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Aug 6, 2018 19:06:32 GMT
Coates lost a reliable sense of judgement in Jan, we all saw that. He was clearly going through his own "denial" stage of the grief curve.
Scholes, as a CEO, has the job of ensure the overall strategic performance of each function of the club to meet the overall needs of staff, customers, stakeholders etc: Scouting, recruitment, playing side, fitness, youth development, commercial development. He would not be an expert, but should have performance targets that need to be met from each area to see that the business model works, and take the timely and effective corrective action if those targets are being missed. All areas failed or underperformed He did not take timely or effective corrective action. Ergo sum, he has failed.
To Coates' credit, he has funded this transfer window more than we might expect a right to be funded. Clubs coming down usually recoup 20m on net transfers as they adjust to a new reality. (Even Newcastle spent 25m+ LESS than they sold). We've spent close to 40m (with fees etc) and have a net outlay of 8m. Its actually, compared to most owners, very generous given the imminent trajectory of our income. Look at Norwich, Hull, Boro for a more typical transition post relegation.
The questions are more:
1) With this 35-40m, has Rowett spent it as well as he possibly can to rebuild the team?
2) Has Rowett received the best possible support from Cartwright to land Rowett's targets, in good time, and at a price to maximise how far the budget will stretch?
Thus far, am tempted to say all four are failing but that could be ridiculously unfair on Rowett. And be "harsh but fair" to Coates.
|
|
|
Post by superheroantonius on Aug 6, 2018 19:08:59 GMT
They don't know how to sell players and take a loss
In business you have to know when to make the call ...when to bank a loss
I know a pension fund manager in the city , he says the easy bit is holding on to winning share....you buy say a million shares in Amazon for a £1 , when it hits £2 , you sell a half , then you ride it for all its worth , for free ( you have already recouped your money now) ...oh its £3 , £10 , £50 , how cool is that .That is the easy bit and anyone can do that .
All the skill ,is in when to sell the shares , that are doing badly , when to bank a loss , that is what sorts out the men from the boys .
The pizza boys problem , they are not actualy clever business men ( they just wear suits and think they are ), they don't know when to bank a loss .
They are dealing with professionals , and they are getting eaten alive
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 19:16:36 GMT
They don't know how to sell players and take a loss In business you have to know when to make the call ...when to bank a loss I know a pension fund manager in the city , he says the easy bit is holding on to winning share....you buy say a million shares in Amazon for a £1 , when it hits £2 , you sell a half , then you ride it for all its worth , for free ( you have already recouped your money now) ...oh its £3 , £10 , £50 , how cool is that .That is the easy bit and anyone can do that . All the skill ,is in when to sell the shares , that are doing badly , when to bank a loss , that is what sorts out the men from the boys . The pizza boys problem , they are not actualy clever business men ( they just wear suits and think they are ), they don't know when to bank a loss . They are dealing with professionals , and they are getting eaten alive I agree, but why can't Coates/Bet365 see this ?
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Aug 6, 2018 19:17:43 GMT
They don't know how to sell players and take a loss In business you have to know when to make the call ...when to bank a loss I know a pension fund manager in the city , he says the easy bit is holding on to winning share....you buy say a million shares in Amazon for a £1 , when it hits £2 , you sell a half , then you ride it for all its worth , for free ( you have already recouped your money now) ...oh its £3 , £10 , £50 , how cool is that .That is the easy bit and anyone can do that . All the skill ,is in when to sell the shares , that are doing badly , when to bank a loss , that is what sorts out the men from the boys . The pizza boys problem , they are not actualy clever business men ( they just wear suits and think they are ), they don't know when to bank a loss . They are dealing with professionals , and they are getting eaten alive Bang on... and in that post, you have demonstrated an appreciation of investment (portfolio) theory that appears to far exceed that of our 200k/year+ CEO! There is a lack of looking at the big picture i.e. the "portfolio". Just because Imbula cost 18m, there appears to be this train of logic that "we won't/can't now let him go for, say,. 8m because we'd loose 10m...." What we should be saying is amongst our portfolio of players, we have one we can sell for 8m who only plays 5 times a season and reinvest. with that buy 2 promising young 4m players who will each play 20 times and grow in value.... Dead money is dead money and rather than shed tears over it, play a longer game like the investor and accept the losses as you go, mininising their impact by spreading the risk. (If you did this btw, you'd probably work out the probability of an 18m youngster from the Portugese league developing into a 30m wonder kid and decide buying 4 x 4m English youngsters from the championship was a better bet, as one is more likely to develop and the other 3, at worst would lose you 2-3m each! - but most likely retain the same value.)
|
|
|
Post by smatty88 on Aug 6, 2018 19:28:53 GMT
Apart from Ramadan we've never invested a reasonable amount of money in a young player ready for the 1st team but with the potential to kick on. Folk will say Ramadan was a failure but I thought he did well in his first season given the circumstances. He went backwards last season but what were the reasons - bad coaching? bad man management? bad mentality? I'd like us to see us bring in more players of this type and not just bring in also rans.
|
|
|
Post by lloydcolesguitar on Aug 6, 2018 19:34:00 GMT
Pizza boys motto : ' we live and we learn , well, we live ' 'we live and we earn' Eat esp fat cartwright Earn Sleep especially during transfer windows (sub holidays for Teflon) Repeat
|
|