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Post by nutterpotter on Jul 13, 2018 14:56:35 GMT
Does seem like he's putting more pressure on Berahino tbf. I know he's trying to big him up, which is great, but making bets with fans isn't a good thing imo. Yeah I did think this. Guess he's trying to do the right thing but execution's probably not right.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 13, 2018 18:10:57 GMT
So when it comes to assessing the capability of a striker we should accept your opinion over Kevin Philips? My gran is going in for hip surgery - any advice for the surgeon? Yes, we should Your gran's surgeon has just suggested she needs new teeth. Still trust him? OK...so my gran's surgeon is really a dentist, Kevin Philips isn't the goal machine who played for Sunderland but a lookalike tyre fitter from Uttoxeter and the poster with the unimpeachable view on Berahino's performance in training is in fact Ronaldo returned home early from the world cup lurking in the undergrowth around Clayton Wood in order avoid striking Fiat workers. Yep - all makes sense now.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 13, 2018 18:37:04 GMT
Does seem like he's putting more pressure on Berahino tbf. I know he's trying to big him up, which is great, but making bets with fans isn't a good thing imo. Yeah I did think this. Guess he's trying to do the right thing but execution's probably not right. I do see that point of view, but also - it must be nice for Saido to see one of his teammates backing him so much. Obviously, we don't know how players attitudes were towards him last season when he was outcast by Lambert (shudder) but I cant see it being particularly good (after the Adam comments) - but seeing one of his teammates betting on him now could also give him that boost.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 13, 2018 18:58:52 GMT
Yes, we should Your gran's surgeon has just suggested she needs new teeth. Still trust him? OK...so my gran's surgeon is really a dentist, Kevin Philips isn't the goal machine who played for Sunderland but a lookalike tyre fitter from Uttoxeter and the poster with the unimpeachable view on Berahino's performance in training is in fact Ronaldo returned home early from the world cup lurking in the undergrowth around Clayton Wood in order avoid striking Fiat workers. Yep - all makes sense now. Kevin Philips was a good striker. But he finished the game, in all seriousness, about 4-5 years ago. Subsequently, he has not proven to have any of the capabilities to be a scout or manager =- i.e. a judge of whether a player will perform well for a club in the future. And indeed in his playing days, was not trusted with captainacy, which might have required similar skills. While a good striker in his day, kicking a ball accurately towards a net is a very different skillset to having a professional judgement on players and their probabiliy of success. To date, no-one in his 30 years in the game has deemed his a judgement worth paying for in this regard. In management, I'm sure you'll agree, you can only play the odds game. And history is the best predictor of odds. So, what are the odds on:- a) Saido Beharinho being the first ever play to have gone 2 years without scoring to come back for the same club and prove a success. (There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of professional strikers as the database for this over the past 2 decades. If we are being kind, should we say 10,000-1?) b) Kevin Philips - without a credential to his name as a judge of players after 25-30 years in the game - is able to suddenly summon incredibly astute powers of deduction to spot that a player who is damaged and impaired actually does have it in him to recover. This would be an incredible asset for a coach, making him a world leading scout able to find damaged players at low cost. Here and now, this magical power has appeared in him. (Shall we be kind and say odds are 1000000-1) Or c) Philips has been employed by the club to be a coach and is thus politically compromised from saying anything about Saido Beharinho other than to talk up his prospects. Because either management are subject to one of many biases that are known to affect management decisions, or Stoke want to get rid and they won't do that while he is a gibbering piece of useless excrement, as per the last 2 seasons: Known management biases include:- 1. Illusion of control:- the illogical tendancy to overestimate one's degree of influence 2. Irrational escalation: the illogical phenomenon where people justify increased investment in a decision, based on a poor but expensive investment decisions before 3. Loss aversion: the psychological aversion to admitting somehting is lost for good and illogical tendency to hold on 4. Overconfidence affect: placing illogical amounts of trust in one's own judgement 5. Paredolia: overly focussing on insignficant or inconsequential factors because they confirm a preferred outcome 6. Receny illusion: putting illogical amounts of trust in recent events or facts rather than looking at the overall data set to draw a conclusion 7. Parkinson's Law of triviality: the tendency to give disproportiate focus to trivial issues to avoid making a more difficult or complicated decision 8. Zero risk sum: the illogical preference to reduce a v small risk to zero than reduce a very big risk. (e.g. reduce the risk that Saido becomes a 20m player with someone else vs the greater risk he disrupts our plans and thus our season).
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 13, 2018 19:00:43 GMT
OK...so my gran's surgeon is really a dentist, Kevin Philips isn't the goal machine who played for Sunderland but a lookalike tyre fitter from Uttoxeter and the poster with the unimpeachable view on Berahino's performance in training is in fact Ronaldo returned home early from the world cup lurking in the undergrowth around Clayton Wood in order avoid striking Fiat workers. Yep - all makes sense now. Kevin Philips was a good striker. But he finished the game, in all seriousness, about 4-5 years ago. Subsequently, he has not proven to have any of the capabilities to be a scout or manager =- i.e. a judge of whether a player will perform well for a club in the future. And indeed in his playing days, was not trusted with captainacy, which might have required similar skills. While a good striker in his day, kicking a ball accurately towards a net is a very different skillset to having a professional judgement on players and their probabiliy of success. To date, no-one in his 30 years in the game has deemed his a judgement worth paying for in this regard. In management, I'm sure you'll agree, you can only play the odds game. And history is the best predictor of odds. So, what are the odds on:- a) Saido Beharinho being the first ever play to have gone 2 years without scoring to come back for the same club and prove a success. (There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of professional strikers as the database for this over the past 2 decades. If we are being kind, should we say 10,000-1?) b) Kevin Philips - without a credential to his name as a judge of players after 25-30 years in the game - is able to suddenly summon incredibly astute powers of deduction to spot that a player who is damaged and impaired actually does have it in him to recover. This would be an incredible asset for a coach, making him a world leading scout able to find damaged players at low cost. Here and now, this magical power has appeared in him. (Shall we be kind and say odds are 1000000-1) Or c) Philips has been employed by the club to be a coach and is thus politically compromised from saying anything about Saido Beharinho other than to talk up his prospects. Because either management are subject to one of many biases that are known to affect management decisions, or Stoke want to get rid and they won't do that while he is a gibbering piece of useless excrement, as per the last 2 seasons: Known management biases include:- 1. Illusion of control:- the illogical tendancy to overestimate one's degree of influence 2. Irrational escalation: the illogical phenomenon where people justify increased investment in a decision, based on a poor but expensive investment decision before 3. Loss aversion: the psychological aversion to admitting somehting is lost for good and illogical tendency to hold on 4. Overconfidence affect: placing illogical amounts of trust in one's own judgement 5. Paredolia: overly focussing on insignficant or inconsequential factors because they confirm a preferred outcome 6. Receny illusion: putting illogical amounts of trust in recent events or facts rather than looking at the overall data set to draw a conclusion 7. Parkinson's Law of triviality: the tendency to give disproportiate focus to trivial issues to avoid making a more difficult or complicated decision 8. Zero risk sum: the illogical preference to reduce a v small risk to zero than reduce a very big risk. (e.g. reduce the risk that Saido becomes a 20m player with someone else and the greater risk he disrupts our plans and thus our season). Ever heard to saying "takes one to know one"? I'm pretty sure as a former top striker, he knows the qualities needed to get to that level.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 13, 2018 19:03:01 GMT
Kevin Philips was a good striker. But he finished the game, in all seriousness, about 4-5 years ago. Subsequently, he has not proven to have any of the capabilities to be a scout or manager =- i.e. a judge of whether a player will perform well for a club in the future. And indeed in his playing days, was not trusted with captainacy, which might have required similar skills. While a good striker in his day, kicking a ball accurately towards a net is a very different skillset to having a professional judgement on players and their probabiliy of success. To date, no-one in his 30 years in the game has deemed his a judgement worth paying for in this regard. In management, I'm sure you'll agree, you can only play the odds game. And history is the best predictor of odds. So, what are the odds on:- a) Saido Beharinho being the first ever play to have gone 2 years without scoring to come back for the same club and prove a success. (There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of professional strikers as the database for this over the past 2 decades. If we are being kind, should we say 10,000-1?) b) Kevin Philips - without a credential to his name as a judge of players after 25-30 years in the game - is able to suddenly summon incredibly astute powers of deduction to spot that a player who is damaged and impaired actually does have it in him to recover. This would be an incredible asset for a coach, making him a world leading scout able to find damaged players at low cost. Here and now, this magical power has appeared in him. (Shall we be kind and say odds are 1000000-1) Or c) Philips has been employed by the club to be a coach and is thus politically compromised from saying anything about Saido Beharinho other than to talk up his prospects. Because either management are subject to one of many biases that are known to affect management decisions, or Stoke want to get rid and they won't do that while he is a gibbering piece of useless excrement, as per the last 2 seasons: Known management biases include:- 1. Illusion of control:- the illogical tendancy to overestimate one's degree of influence 2. Irrational escalation: the illogical phenomenon where people justify increased investment in a decision, based on a poor but expensive investment decision before 3. Loss aversion: the psychological aversion to admitting somehting is lost for good and illogical tendency to hold on 4. Overconfidence affect: placing illogical amounts of trust in one's own judgement 5. Paredolia: overly focussing on insignficant or inconsequential factors because they confirm a preferred outcome 6. Receny illusion: putting illogical amounts of trust in recent events or facts rather than looking at the overall data set to draw a conclusion 7. Parkinson's Law of triviality: the tendency to give disproportiate focus to trivial issues to avoid making a more difficult or complicated decision 8. Zero risk sum: the illogical preference to reduce a v small risk to zero than reduce a very big risk. (e.g. reduce the risk that Saido becomes a 20m player with someone else and the greater risk he disrupts our plans and thus our season). Ever heard to saying "takes one to know one"? I'm pretty sure as a former top striker, he knows the qualities needed to get to that level. And Im pretty sure if he did, he would be making an absolute fortune as a scout of top strikers. Does owning a brain make us brain surgeons? PS ... and (if he does possess this new found ability to judge players which he has never had before) he may know Saido is a bag of shit. But is still not going to say that.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 13, 2018 19:06:08 GMT
Ever heard to saying "takes one to know one"? I'm pretty sure as a former top striker, he knows the qualities needed to get to that level. And Im pretty sure if he did, he would be making an absolute fortune as a scout of top strikers. Does owning a brain make us brain surgeons? No obviously not, but if you spoke to a brain surgeon - he'd know the qualities needed for someone else to become a brain surgeon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 19:12:13 GMT
And Im pretty sure if he did, he would be making an absolute fortune as a scout of top strikers. Does owning a brain make us brain surgeons? No obviously not, but if you spoke to a brain surgeon - he'd know the qualities needed for someone else to become a brain surgeon. No, but perhaps a top neurosurgeon could also recognise the traits required in say, a junior medic, that would allow them to look at someone and say "yes, they have what it takes to do well".....
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 13, 2018 19:13:06 GMT
And Im pretty sure if he did, he would be making an absolute fortune as a scout of top strikers. Does owning a brain make us brain surgeons? No obviously not, but if you spoke to a brain surgeon - he'd know the qualities needed for someone else to become a brain surgeon. Touchee :-)
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 13, 2018 19:17:36 GMT
All in all guys, I just look at the weight of evidence and the weight of the challenge of rehabilitating SB and think, nowt like this has happened before, so it PROBABLY won't happen now. Let's all unite in hoping Im completely and utterly wrong! And KP - brain surgeon cum player-whisperer - does the biz and saves us 10m
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 19:38:10 GMT
OK...so my gran's surgeon is really a dentist, Kevin Philips isn't the goal machine who played for Sunderland but a lookalike tyre fitter from Uttoxeter and the poster with the unimpeachable view on Berahino's performance in training is in fact Ronaldo returned home early from the world cup lurking in the undergrowth around Clayton Wood in order avoid striking Fiat workers. Yep - all makes sense now. Kevin Philips was a good striker. But he finished the game, in all seriousness, about 4-5 years ago. Subsequently, he has not proven to have any of the capabilities to be a scout or manager =- i.e. a judge of whether a player will perform well for a club in the future. And indeed in his playing days, was not trusted with captainacy, which might have required similar skills. While a good striker in his day, kicking a ball accurately towards a net is a very different skillset to having a professional judgement on players and their probabiliy of success. To date, no-one in his 30 years in the game has deemed his a judgement worth paying for in this regard. In management, I'm sure you'll agree, you can only play the odds game. And history is the best predictor of odds. So, what are the odds on:- a) Saido Beharinho being the first ever play to have gone 2 years without scoring to come back for the same club and prove a success. (There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of professional strikers as the database for this over the past 2 decades. If we are being kind, should we say 10,000-1?) b) Kevin Philips - without a credential to his name as a judge of players after 25-30 years in the game - is able to suddenly summon incredibly astute powers of deduction to spot that a player who is damaged and impaired actually does have it in him to recover. This would be an incredible asset for a coach, making him a world leading scout able to find damaged players at low cost. Here and now, this magical power has appeared in him. (Shall we be kind and say odds are 1000000-1) Or c) Philips has been employed by the club to be a coach and is thus politically compromised from saying anything about Saido Beharinho other than to talk up his prospects. Because either management are subject to one of many biases that are known to affect management decisions, or Stoke want to get rid and they won't do that while he is a gibbering piece of useless excrement, as per the last 2 seasons: Known management biases include:- 1. Illusion of control:- the illogical tendancy to overestimate one's degree of influence 2. Irrational escalation: the illogical phenomenon where people justify increased investment in a decision, based on a poor but expensive investment decisions before 3. Loss aversion: the psychological aversion to admitting somehting is lost for good and illogical tendency to hold on 4. Overconfidence affect: placing illogical amounts of trust in one's own judgement 5. Paredolia: overly focussing on insignficant or inconsequential factors because they confirm a preferred outcome 6. Receny illusion: putting illogical amounts of trust in recent events or facts rather than looking at the overall data set to draw a conclusion 7. Parkinson's Law of triviality: the tendency to give disproportiate focus to trivial issues to avoid making a more difficult or complicated decision 8. Zero risk sum: the illogical preference to reduce a v small risk to zero than reduce a very big risk. (e.g. reduce the risk that Saido becomes a 20m player with someone else vs the greater risk he disrupts our plans and thus our season). Maybe you could enlighten us all with which football club you are employed by, as you seem to know the industry inside out. No, thought not. Maybe, just maybe, you could try and be positive and give the new management team a chance to prove themselves before you knock them down.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 13, 2018 19:42:02 GMT
Kevin Philips was a good striker. But he finished the game, in all seriousness, about 4-5 years ago. Subsequently, he has not proven to have any of the capabilities to be a scout or manager =- i.e. a judge of whether a player will perform well for a club in the future. And indeed in his playing days, was not trusted with captainacy, which might have required similar skills. While a good striker in his day, kicking a ball accurately towards a net is a very different skillset to having a professional judgement on players and their probabiliy of success. To date, no-one in his 30 years in the game has deemed his a judgement worth paying for in this regard. In management, I'm sure you'll agree, you can only play the odds game. And history is the best predictor of odds. So, what are the odds on:- a) Saido Beharinho being the first ever play to have gone 2 years without scoring to come back for the same club and prove a success. (There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of professional strikers as the database for this over the past 2 decades. If we are being kind, should we say 10,000-1?) b) Kevin Philips - without a credential to his name as a judge of players after 25-30 years in the game - is able to suddenly summon incredibly astute powers of deduction to spot that a player who is damaged and impaired actually does have it in him to recover. This would be an incredible asset for a coach, making him a world leading scout able to find damaged players at low cost. Here and now, this magical power has appeared in him. (Shall we be kind and say odds are 1000000-1) Or c) Philips has been employed by the club to be a coach and is thus politically compromised from saying anything about Saido Beharinho other than to talk up his prospects. Because either management are subject to one of many biases that are known to affect management decisions, or Stoke want to get rid and they won't do that while he is a gibbering piece of useless excrement, as per the last 2 seasons: Known management biases include:- 1. Illusion of control:- the illogical tendancy to overestimate one's degree of influence 2. Irrational escalation: the illogical phenomenon where people justify increased investment in a decision, based on a poor but expensive investment decisions before 3. Loss aversion: the psychological aversion to admitting somehting is lost for good and illogical tendency to hold on 4. Overconfidence affect: placing illogical amounts of trust in one's own judgement 5. Paredolia: overly focussing on insignficant or inconsequential factors because they confirm a preferred outcome 6. Receny illusion: putting illogical amounts of trust in recent events or facts rather than looking at the overall data set to draw a conclusion 7. Parkinson's Law of triviality: the tendency to give disproportiate focus to trivial issues to avoid making a more difficult or complicated decision 8. Zero risk sum: the illogical preference to reduce a v small risk to zero than reduce a very big risk. (e.g. reduce the risk that Saido becomes a 20m player with someone else vs the greater risk he disrupts our plans and thus our season). Maybe you could enlighten us all with which football club you are employed by, as you seem to know the industry inside out. No, thought not. Maybe, just maybe, you could try and be positive and give the new management team a chance to prove themselves before you knock them down. "Maybe, just maybe, you could try and be positive and give the new management team a chance to prove themselves before you knock them down." Nonsense statement. Rowett - pleased he in manager. Philips - pleased he is a coach.,.... just dubious that Philips is a psychic, or has special powers to call on which allow him to identify and rehabilitate strikers who haven't scored for 2 years into being productive again. And management are doing the right thing with Beharinho. If he can't come back (which reams of data suggest he wont), then polishing him to flog on e-Bay is exactly the right thing to do. What's negative about that? its been a good response by the club so far. I don't want to see SB, or other decisions made out of sentiment or wishful thinking, derail that.
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Post by The man from Utch on Jul 16, 2018 2:42:49 GMT
Yes, we should Your gran's surgeon has just suggested she needs new teeth. Still trust him? OK...so my gran's surgeon is really a dentist, Kevin Philips isn't the goal machine who played for Sunderland but a lookalike tyre fitter from Uttoxeter and the poster with the unimpeachable view on Berahino's performance in training is in fact Ronaldo returned home early from the world cup lurking in the undergrowth around Clayton Wood in order avoid striking Fiat workers. Yep - all makes sense now. Us Utcheter lads are not tyre fuckin fitters you twat.
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