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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 3, 2018 11:19:43 GMT
Red card for Nayun? Give it a rest. What Neymar did was absolutely pathetic and I agree with every bit of vitriol and criticism that has come his way since. We've got VAR now and one of the reasons it was brought in was to deal with red card incidents. Can't it just be brought to the referees attention and a review carried out? Either way, absolutely pathetic from Neymar. Similar to the excessive rolling after a foul in the previous game. Don't try and defend it. Clattenburg thought it was a clear red. If (say) Ramos had done exactly the same thing to (say) Sterling, Ramos would be public enemy number one and the referee would be getting slaughtered on here for not sending him off.
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aderc
Academy Starlet
Posts: 194
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Post by aderc on Jul 3, 2018 11:21:43 GMT
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Post by kristoff on Jul 3, 2018 11:23:55 GMT
To be fair, I seem to remember this whole board being up in arms when Rooney ‘stamped’ on Ronaldo back at the Euros (or worlds I forget) that it was never a red card, now this is nowhere near as bad and people are claiming it should’ve been a straight red.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 11:31:59 GMT
To be fair, I seem to remember this whole board being up in arms when Rooney ‘stamped’ on Ronaldo back at the Euros (or worlds I forget) that it was never a red card, now this is nowhere near as bad and people are claiming it should’ve been a straight red. They were both straight reds. You can't stand on someone deliberately.
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Post by Godo on Jul 3, 2018 12:02:19 GMT
I simply can't understand how anyone can behave like that, especially in the full glare of the worlds tv cameras. Does he want to be remembered as a great technical player or an embarrassing tart?
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jul 3, 2018 12:07:17 GMT
Red card for Nayun? Give it a rest. What Neymar did was absolutely pathetic and I agree with every bit of vitriol and criticism that has come his way since. We've got VAR now and one of the reasons it was brought in was to deal with red card incidents. Can't it just be brought to the referees attention and a review carried out? Either way, absolutely pathetic from Neymar. Similar to the excessive rolling after a foul in the previous game. Don't try and defend it. Clattenburg thought it was a clear red. If (say) Ramos had done exactly the same thing to (say) Sterling, Ramos would be public enemy number one and the referee would be getting slaughtered on here for not sending him off. You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 3, 2018 12:10:11 GMT
Can’t wait for England vs Brazil in the final and Harry Maguire absolutely steamrollers Neymar with that concrete slab of a head he’s got.
Fuck off Neymar, pathetic spineless fairy, he couldn’t even be arsed to actually play against half decent players so he retreated to the French league like the greasy sister shagging twat he is.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 12:14:43 GMT
Clattenburg thought it was a clear red. If (say) Ramos had done exactly the same thing to (say) Sterling, Ramos would be public enemy number one and the referee would be getting slaughtered on here for not sending him off. You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent. So if Ramos stood on an England player it wouldn't be a red card?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 12:18:32 GMT
You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent. So if Ramos stood on an England player it wouldn't be a red card? If the England player in question had rolled around like a twat for the previous 6 season and gained a reputation as someone who constantly tried to con the ref, probably not no........
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 3, 2018 12:19:10 GMT
Clattenburg thought it was a clear red. If (say) Ramos had done exactly the same thing to (say) Sterling, Ramos would be public enemy number one and the referee would be getting slaughtered on here for not sending him off. You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent. I think that's exactly what people are doing with Neymar, they're allowing the fact that he's a cheating scumbag to cloud their judgment and are not judging it an unbiased manner. Like Rob said above, you simply can't deliberately stand on people and this is why Clattenburg thought it was a clear red for violent conduct. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jul 3, 2018 12:19:45 GMT
You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent. So if Ramos stood on an England player it wouldn't be a red card? No it wouldn't. You'd probably get lots of English fans saying it was a red in the heat of the moment. The same way most fans see every decision in their favour, regardless of the circumstances. That's what football fans do. It's easier to be more reasonable and impartial when giving an opinion on an incident that doesn't involve your own. For me, it was never a red card in a million years. It was a little bit naughty but no worse than a lot of other things that go on during a match. If it was reckless or excessive force, then yes, it's a red. If it was a stamp or intent to cause injury, then yes, it's a red. As it was, it's a yellow card at worst. As for Neymar, I'm not sure what the suitable punishment is. Maybe just the shame, embarrassment and the vast criticism he is now receiving is sufficient.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 12:20:52 GMT
So if Ramos stood on an England player it wouldn't be a red card? If the England player in question had rolled around like a twat for the previous 6 season and gained a reputation as someone who constantly tried to con the ref, probably not no........ It doesn't work like that though does it? It should be perfectly possible to separate the two. Whatever the reaction, and Neymar's was embarrassing, that shouldn't have any bearing on the punishment for the original action, surely? Standing on someone deliberately is a snidey, shithouse move and violent conduct.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jul 3, 2018 12:22:45 GMT
You're bringing emotion into it with that analogy. Opposition versus home nation. The incident as it was, from a completely unbiased outlook, was a complete farce on Neymars behalf. And not a red card for the opponent. I think that's exactly what people are doing with Neymar, they're allowing the fact that he's a cheating scumbag to cloud their judgment and are not judging it an unbiased manner. Like Rob said above, you simply can't deliberately stand on people and this is why Clattenburg thought it was a clear red for violent conduct. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the majority don't think it was a red. Certainly that's the concensus I seem to be reading and hearing from the reaction since it happened.
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Post by ohbottom on Jul 3, 2018 12:23:46 GMT
Which is cause and which is effect? Neymar has the justified reputation for making a mountain range out of a molehill and the way he was thrashing about like he was having a fit was so obviously fake why should any referee take that seriously? As a result of his reaction the referee went to VAR, he DID take it seriously. Yes but just about everything is being VARed, in this case I'm not clear exactly WHAT was reviewed. Maybe if it wasn't for his reputation the ref might have looked a bit more closely at a few more angles. If I was the ref and I see a player who generally only reacts when genuinely hurt rolling around I'm going to think I'd better have a good look and see how this happened. When you know someone feigns injury multiple times per game I'm going to want to get the game re-started ASAP.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 3, 2018 12:24:06 GMT
So if Ramos stood on an England player it wouldn't be a red card? No it wouldn't. You'd probably get lots of English fans saying it was a red in the heat of the moment. The same way most fans see every decision in their favour, regardless of the circumstances. That's what football fans do. It's easier to be more reasonable and impartial when giving an opinion on an incident that doesn't involve your own. For me, it was never a red card in a million years. It was a little bit naughty but no worse than a lot of other things that go on during a match. If it was reckless or excessive force, then yes, it's a red. If it was a stamp or intent to cause injury, then yes, it's a red. As it was, it's a yellow card at worst. As for Neymar, I'm not sure what the suitable punishment is. Maybe just the shame, embarrassment and the vast criticism he is now receiving is sufficient. But aren't you allowing you dislike of Neymar to cloud your judgement and that bias doesn't lend itself to an independent impartial assessment
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jul 3, 2018 12:29:24 GMT
No it wouldn't. You'd probably get lots of English fans saying it was a red in the heat of the moment. The same way most fans see every decision in their favour, regardless of the circumstances. That's what football fans do. It's easier to be more reasonable and impartial when giving an opinion on an incident that doesn't involve your own. For me, it was never a red card in a million years. It was a little bit naughty but no worse than a lot of other things that go on during a match. If it was reckless or excessive force, then yes, it's a red. If it was a stamp or intent to cause injury, then yes, it's a red. As it was, it's a yellow card at worst. As for Neymar, I'm not sure what the suitable punishment is. Maybe just the shame, embarrassment and the vast criticism he is now receiving is sufficient. But aren't you allowing you dislike of Neymar to cloud your judgement and that bias doesn't lend itself to an independent impartial assessment Prior to the world cup I had no particular opinion on Neymar, aside from him being one of the world's best. I saw the incident in the previous game which I didn't particular like but it certainly hasn't made me form a strong viewpoint on him. My opinion on this incident isn't born out of some longstanding hatred or agenda.
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Post by kristoff on Jul 3, 2018 12:35:47 GMT
To be fair, I seem to remember this whole board being up in arms when Rooney ‘stamped’ on Ronaldo back at the Euros (or worlds I forget) that it was never a red card, now this is nowhere near as bad and people are claiming it should’ve been a straight red. They were both straight reds. You can't stand on someone deliberately. Look back through my posts I defend Brazil (and often Neymar) most of the time, and if England do t win it I will always back Brazil. I make this point to back up the fact that I am in no way biased against Neymar or Brazil. To my point, if someone DELIBERATELY stamps on someone the. Yes that should be a straight red, but in no way shape or form will you ever prove what happened yesterday was deliberate, I’d go as far to say that it was a player rushing to get the ball and being like a bull in a china shop. Add on top of that Neymar’s reaction and they were never going to rule it a red. Now whilst I normally hate diving (and I have made this point clear), if he’s falling over at the slightest touch I have some sympathy, like Linguard and Kane, Neymar has been almost assaulted In the first couple of games at this word cup and got the sweet end of fuck all given, his response is to start doing things like that. I agree both sides of this need addressing, players need protecting from foul play, but the game needs protecting from ‘simulation’ just as much. Side note, Ronaldo (and the other players/teams doing the same) should receive huge bans and fine for the intimidation of the referees in this World Cup imho
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 12:43:36 GMT
They were both straight reds. You can't stand on someone deliberately. Look back through my posts I defend Brazil (and often Neymar) most of the time, and if England do t win it I will always back Brazil. I make this point to back up the fact that I am in no way biased against Neymar or Brazil. To my point, if someone DELIBERATELY stamps on someone the. Yes that should be a straight red, but in no way shape or form will you ever prove what happened yesterday was deliberate, I’d go as far to say that it was a player rushing to get the ball and being like a bull in a china shop. Add on top of that Neymar’s reaction and they were never going to rule it a red. Now whilst I normally hate diving (and I have made this point clear), if he’s falling over at the slightest touch I have some sympathy, like Linguard and Kane, Neymar has been almost assaulted In the first couple of games at this word cup and got the sweet end of fuck all given, his response is to start doing things like that. I agree both sides of this need addressing, players need protecting from foul play, but the game needs protecting from ‘simulation’ just as much. Side note, Ronaldo (and the other players/teams doing the same) should receive huge bans and fine for the intimidation of the referees in this World Cup imho Do you really think it wasn't deliberate? It looked as deliberate an act as things get to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 12:49:10 GMT
If the England player in question had rolled around like a twat for the previous 6 season and gained a reputation as someone who constantly tried to con the ref, probably not no........ It doesn't work like that though does it? It should be perfectly possible to separate the two. Whatever the reaction, and Neymar's was embarrassing, that shouldn't have any bearing on the punishment for the original action, surely? Standing on someone deliberately is a snidey, shithouse move and violent conduct. It does work like that though, it's human nature. If a player gains a reputation for himself he is likely to be on the wrong side of the odd decision, it's the same reason why Wilfred Zaha was getting booked for diving when perhaps others would have got away with it. And with the advent of VAR the officials were able to see it back so they clearly didn't see it as "violent conduct" like your good self.....
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Post by kristoff on Jul 3, 2018 12:55:06 GMT
Look back through my posts I defend Brazil (and often Neymar) most of the time, and if England do t win it I will always back Brazil. I make this point to back up the fact that I am in no way biased against Neymar or Brazil. To my point, if someone DELIBERATELY stamps on someone the. Yes that should be a straight red, but in no way shape or form will you ever prove what happened yesterday was deliberate, I’d go as far to say that it was a player rushing to get the ball and being like a bull in a china shop. Add on top of that Neymar’s reaction and they were never going to rule it a red. Now whilst I normally hate diving (and I have made this point clear), if he’s falling over at the slightest touch I have some sympathy, like Linguard and Kane, Neymar has been almost assaulted In the first couple of games at this word cup and got the sweet end of fuck all given, his response is to start doing things like that. I agree both sides of this need addressing, players need protecting from foul play, but the game needs protecting from ‘simulation’ just as much. Side note, Ronaldo (and the other players/teams doing the same) should receive huge bans and fine for the intimidation of the referees in this World Cup imho Do you really think it wasn't deliberate? It looked as deliberate an act as things get to me. I honestly thought it was just a very clumsy action. I also thought at first glance that maybe he’d trod on the foot Neymar had injured before the World Cup. If you think it was deliberate then that’s the beauty of football and long may that part of the game continue 👍.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 12:56:52 GMT
It doesn't work like that though does it? It should be perfectly possible to separate the two. Whatever the reaction, and Neymar's was embarrassing, that shouldn't have any bearing on the punishment for the original action, surely? Standing on someone deliberately is a snidey, shithouse move and violent conduct. It does work like that though, it's human nature. If a player gains a reputation for himself he is likely to be on the wrong side of the odd decision, it's the same reason why Wilfred Zaha was getting booked for diving when perhaps others would have got away with it. And with the advent of VAR the officials were able to see it back so they clearly didn't see it as "violent conduct" like your good self..... We're talking about the letter of the law here though aren't we? 'Human nature' shouldn't come into that, the referee is there to apply the laws, not pick and choose when he applies them based on who's involved? Absolutely, the refs ultimately decided it wasn't, so that's that. There's no evidence either way to suggest Neymar's reaction had any bearing on that decision whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:03:51 GMT
If I was one of Neymar's own players I would have gone over and dragged him to his feet to stop him bringing disgrace to the country. Why his team mates don't do that only adds to the shame of it.
The man is a cheat and no amount of talent can ever cover that up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:03:57 GMT
Hes a bottom dwelling scum sucking fairy
a coward and a cheat
what is there to debate ?
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Post by mrred on Jul 3, 2018 13:11:25 GMT
One of the most deplorable little wankers in football. I genuinely hope he breaks his legs. Undoubtedly talented, but vastly overshadowed by just how much of an odious, cheating, cunt he is. I think it's farcical he get's mentioned in the same breath as Messi.
It's something that really needs clamping down on in football. Straight red for dissent. Fuck off.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:27:59 GMT
It does work like that though, it's human nature. If a player gains a reputation for himself he is likely to be on the wrong side of the odd decision, it's the same reason why Wilfred Zaha was getting booked for diving when perhaps others would have got away with it. And with the advent of VAR the officials were able to see it back so they clearly didn't see it as "violent conduct" like your good self..... We're talking about the letter of the law here though aren't we? 'Human nature' shouldn't come into that, the referee is there to apply the laws, not pick and choose when he applies them based on who's involved? Absolutely, the refs ultimately decided it wasn't, so that's that. There's no evidence either way to suggest Neymar's reaction had any bearing on that decision whatsoever. You don't think a players behaviour (or his perceived behaviour) affects referees whether it be consciously or sub-consciously? "Human nature" comes into everything where humans are involved, and even VAR for all it's positives still throws up doubt with certain incidents. It's why Shawcross was the first ever player to be penalised for grappling in the box. It's why Zaha, Ashley Young and other players missed out on free-kicks being given to their team over the last few seasons It's why referees are sceptical with cheats (that's what he is) like Neymar We're not talking about clear cut obvious decisions here, we're talking about the ones that could go either way. They're the decisions that players like Neymar can have absolutely no complaints when they don't go their way, because they've brought it all on themselves.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:28:48 GMT
Hes a bottom dwelling scum sucking fairy a coward and a cheat what is there to debate ? Plenty actually.....
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Post by fentonbadger on Jul 3, 2018 13:40:56 GMT
Maybe the solution with Naymar’s play acting really does lie with the referee...
If the ref is of the opinion that a player had suffered serious injury (and Naymars behaviour would suggest that nothing short of primary limb amputation would alleviate the almost unbearable pain being suffered) then surely the ref can insist that he is removed from the field of play and given suitable medical treatment? We hear all the time the glib quote that ‘...the players safety and well-being is our overriding concern..’, so perhaps it needs a strong ref to point this out.
Fifteen minutes on the sidelines or better still an ambulance ride to hospital would cure the problem in the space of a single match.
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Post by kristoff on Jul 3, 2018 13:49:12 GMT
Maybe the solution with Naymar’s play acting really does lie with the referee... If the ref is of the opinion that a player had suffered serious injury (and Naymars behaviour would suggest that nothing short of primary limb amputation would alleviate the almost unbearable pain being suffered) then surely the ref can insist that he is removed from the field of play and given suitable medical treatment? We hear all the time the glib quote that ‘...the players safety and well-being is our overriding concern..’, so perhaps it needs a strong ref to point this out. Fifteen minutes on the sidelines or better still an ambulance ride to hospital would cure the problem in the space of a single match. Said this a hundred times
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 3, 2018 13:51:04 GMT
We're talking about the letter of the law here though aren't we? 'Human nature' shouldn't come into that, the referee is there to apply the laws, not pick and choose when he applies them based on who's involved? Absolutely, the refs ultimately decided it wasn't, so that's that. There's no evidence either way to suggest Neymar's reaction had any bearing on that decision whatsoever. You don't think a players behaviour (or his perceived behaviour) affects referees whether it be consciously or sub-consciously? "Human nature" comes into everything where humans are involved, and even VAR for all it's positives still throws up doubt with certain incidents. It's why Shawcross was the first ever player to be penalised for grappling in the box. It's why Zaha, Ashley Young and other players missed out on free-kicks being given to their team over the last few seasons It's why referees are sceptical with cheats (that's what he is) like Neymar We're not talking about clear cut obvious decisions here, we're talking about the ones that could go either way. They're the decisions that players like Neymar can have absolutely no complaints when they don't go their way, because they've brought it all on themselves..... It's one thing to say they can't complain when they carry on like they do, I take that point. But to suggest that reaction means it shouldn't be or isn't a foul or a red card as a consequence is something else isn't it? You can't pick and choose who the rules apply to.
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Post by gregstokie on Jul 3, 2018 13:57:00 GMT
Maybe the solution with Naymar’s play acting really does lie with the referee... If the ref is of the opinion that a player had suffered serious injury (and Naymars behaviour would suggest that nothing short of primary limb amputation would alleviate the almost unbearable pain being suffered) then surely the ref can insist that he is removed from the field of play and given suitable medical treatment? We hear all the time the glib quote that ‘...the players safety and well-being is our overriding concern..’, so perhaps it needs a strong ref to point this out. Fifteen minutes on the sidelines or better still an ambulance ride to hospital would cure the problem in the space of a single match. This! Used to love watching players put on stretchers against their will as it makes them look like right tools. What a shame either Neymar being as famous as he is makes him this pathetic and odious. Or, shame he just is this pathetic and odious who just happens to be gifted as he is at football.
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