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Post by skiptomylou on May 14, 2018 20:37:40 GMT
Can't help but feel this relegation will turn out the best for us in the long run and this is why I feel this. Sorry in advance for the long essay.
had we of stayed up, looking at our squad, there are 17/18 players in there that are quite simply not Good enough to be Premier league footballers anymore. there isn't a chance we'd be able to replace anywhere near enough of them in the summer, especially with the world Cup happening, the transfer window closing earlier and having two idiots in Scholes and cartwright sorting things! We would of been just putting off the inevitable for next season. How many teams have we seen battle relegation for a few years, under a dark cloud over the club, to finally go down, then go down again!
The timing of going down this year is also in our favour. There are good players still under contract and not entering there last year where we'd be forced to sell. There isn't an international tournemant next summer either so players are not going to be playing for places in their country's lineup.
Im hoping going down quickly will give us chance to rebuild, say half of the 17/18 players that aren't prem players anymore. Away from the intense spotlight and constant scrutiny of the Premier league media and hopefully install some squad harmony again. Maybe even have a crack at winning the damn thing. I'd gladly take a championship winning season over another relegation scrap! I don't think this club has ever won that trophy has it? although I'd take top 6 right now.
Anyway, just my thoughts, I know others will think differently.
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Post by clarkeda on May 14, 2018 20:44:07 GMT
Can't help but feel this relegation will turn out the best for us in the long run and this is why I feel this. Sorry in advance for the long essay. had we of stayed up, looking at our squad, there are 17/18 players in there that are quite simply not Good enough to be Premier league footballers anymore. there isn't a chance we'd be able to replace anywhere near enough of them in the summer, especially with the world Cup happening, the transfer window closing earlier and having two idiots in Scholes and cartwright sorting things! We would of been just putting off the inevitable for next season. How many teams have we seen battle relegation for a few years, under a dark cloud over the club, to finally go down, then go down again! The timing of going down this year is also in our favour. There are good players still under contract and not entering there last year where we'd be forced to sell. There isn't an international tournemant next summer either so players are not going to be playing for places in their country's lineup. Im hoping going down quickly will give us chance to rebuild, say half of the 17/18 players that aren't prem players anymore. Away from the intense spotlight and constant scrutiny of the Premier league media and hopefully install some squad harmony again. Maybe even have a crack at winning the damn thing. I'd gladly take a championship winning season over another relegation scrap! I don't think this club has ever won that trophy has it? although I'd take top 6 right now. Anyway, just my thoughts, I know others will think differently. Had the same conversation with my lot at Swansea. Add to the fact if we stayed up we’d prob lose jack and Shaq anyway, and 100% would have kept lambert, it would have been a season of failure of epic proportions. Something THAT derby team would have winced at. |
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Post by nik80 on May 14, 2018 20:52:08 GMT
Can't help but feel this relegation will turn out the best for us in the long run and this is why I feel this. Sorry in advance for the long essay. had we of stayed up, looking at our squad, there are 17/18 players in there that are quite simply not Good enough to be Premier league footballers anymore. there isn't a chance we'd be able to replace anywhere near enough of them in the summer, especially with the world Cup happening, the transfer window closing earlier and having two idiots in Scholes and cartwright sorting things! We would of been just putting off the inevitable for next season. How many teams have we seen battle relegation for a few years, under a dark cloud over the club, to finally go down, then go down again! The timing of going down this year is also in our favour. There are good players still under contract and not entering there last year where we'd be forced to sell. There isn't an international tournemant next summer either so players are not going to be playing for places in their country's lineup. Im hoping going down quickly will give us chance to rebuild, say half of the 17/18 players that aren't prem players anymore. Away from the intense spotlight and constant scrutiny of the Premier league media and hopefully install some squad harmony again. Maybe even have a crack at winning the damn thing. I'd gladly take a championship winning season over another relegation scrap! I don't think this club has ever won that trophy has it? although I'd take top 6 right now. Anyway, just my thoughts, I know others will think differently. Interesting. My opinion is, there’s no good time to be dumped out of the top division and that the squad, even in its current state, isn’t strong enough by a long chalk. I actually believe, it’d fair better next season in a Premier League, which it’s just been axed from, than mount a serious bid for promotion out of the Championship. Players like Choupo’s head will spin! Much attention needed sadly. |
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 14, 2018 20:52:13 GMT
Could be true.
Once we've shipped out the bad apples and a few of the big names are sold we should still be able to keep anumber of players good enough for the champ to work alongside new signings.
I do think if we'd hung around the bottom 6 of the prem for a few seasons like Sunderland we really would just be left with the dross on long contracts that nobody else would want.
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Post by alster on May 14, 2018 20:56:39 GMT
If we'd survived the owners would just have carried on cheapskating. Now at least they have some decisions to make.
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Post by stokeykez on May 14, 2018 20:57:17 GMT
I also think this duck. We have gone down atvthe first-time of asking. Time after time see clubs that have hovered over the trap door for 2-3 seasons and then they are gone.
Everything was wrong this season , it all felt wrong, our luck, discipline, replacing the manager.
This hopefully will act as a wake up to the board but stoke major overhaul is probably a change in the company that provide toilet rolls and hand wipes.
Some players who think they are too good or stoke are just a pay packet will be whittled out by a manager who hopefully will show a strength and discipline we haven't had since tp.
We need that DNA back and whilst we were dazzled by the lights of the prem this was slipping away
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2018 20:59:43 GMT
I said it would be to a Sunderland fan last summer.
We're rotten to the core as a club. If that doesn't change then it won't be a blessing.
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Post by stokeson on May 14, 2018 21:25:38 GMT
No.No .and F3cking No.
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Post by stokieinaus on May 14, 2018 21:27:30 GMT
At least we will be competing in a league where we can realistically win as opposed to one where we can only dream of winning
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Post by SamB_SCFC on May 15, 2018 7:27:34 GMT
It's only a blessing if you come straight back up. I just can't see a scenario where that's going to happen unless pretty much everything about how the club has operated over the last few years changes overnight.
I predict a long, frustrating summer where we move at a snail's pace and get gazumped on every major signing we try to make which will leave us with cheap options and gambles at the end of August.
I'd be amazed if things go any differently.
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on May 15, 2018 8:06:56 GMT
I dont think relegation has sunk in for a lot of us yet. Wait till the fixtures are out, you'll then realise what a complete fuck up this season has been.
Teams like burnley, watford, bournemouth, brighton, even newcastle, all in a division above despite our 10 years of premier league stability.
No blessing, just sheer fuckupery.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on May 15, 2018 8:37:38 GMT
There's nothing good about relegation. Just wait and see  |
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Post by Fred Ferret on May 15, 2018 8:55:39 GMT
There's nothing good about relegation. Just wait and see Of course we would all have wanted to survive, but to experience what next season? The delusion rests with those that kid themselves we would have pulled out of the nosedive if we had managed to scrape an extra 4 points. Surviving by the “skin of the teeth” would have continued the comatose state of play within the club. More loans, some Cheapo buys, no doubt riddled with a lingering mix of parasites and bad eggs. |
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Post by metalhead on May 15, 2018 9:00:27 GMT
Can't help but feel this relegation will turn out the best for us in the long run and this is why I feel this. Sorry in advance for the long essay. had we of stayed up, looking at our squad, there are 17/18 players in there that are quite simply not Good enough to be Premier league footballers anymore. there isn't a chance we'd be able to replace anywhere near enough of them in the summer, especially with the world Cup happening, the transfer window closing earlier and having two idiots in Scholes and cartwright sorting things! We would of been just putting off the inevitable for next season. How many teams have we seen battle relegation for a few years, under a dark cloud over the club, to finally go down, then go down again! The timing of going down this year is also in our favour. There are good players still under contract and not entering there last year where we'd be forced to sell. There isn't an international tournemant next summer either so players are not going to be playing for places in their country's lineup. Im hoping going down quickly will give us chance to rebuild, say half of the 17/18 players that aren't prem players anymore. Away from the intense spotlight and constant scrutiny of the Premier league media and hopefully install some squad harmony again. Maybe even have a crack at winning the damn thing. I'd gladly take a championship winning season over another relegation scrap! I don't think this club has ever won that trophy has it? although I'd take top 6 right now. Anyway, just my thoughts, I know others will think differently. Had the same conversation with my lot at Swansea. Add to the fact if we stayed up we’d prob lose jack and Shaq anyway, and 100% would have kept lambert, it would have been a season of failure of epic proportions. Something THAT derby team would have winced at. We would have beaten that Derby points total had we stayed up. Coates hasn't been investing wisely and still wouldn't have. |
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Post by dirtygary69 on May 15, 2018 9:06:00 GMT
It's impossible to say just yet, isn't it? Is it a blessing in the short term or in the long term? Short term we could either bounce straight back, have an absolute shitter or middle ourselves out for a few years. If we bounce back straight away, do we really learn anything from what's happened? Long term, it could mean we might have to rebuild and come back in another 10 years as a completely different, stronger club which might have not have happened if we stayed up this season. Oppositely, the Coates' might sell up, we might get new, rubbish owners and end up languishing in the lower reaches of the Championship or beyond. It's all far too early to say.
Going back, you could suggest that going down to Division 2 twenty years ago was a blessing in disguise if you look at the long term impact it had - we were back in the PL 10 years later. Yes it was shit at the time, yes it took a couple of ownership changes to happen but sometimes something bad needs to happen to create something positive.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 15, 2018 9:16:44 GMT
If we hadn't gone down this season, next season would have been a whitewash.
The board would continue making the same mistakes all over again, whether they will learn from this remains to be seen.
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Post by knyperstokie on May 15, 2018 9:28:07 GMT
If we hadn't gone down this season, next season would have been a whitewash. The board would continue making the same mistakes all over again, whether they will learn from this remains to be seen. I'm not too sure that the attitude of the board will change too much. They may well pocket the money and still try to do it on the cheap. It's in the club's DNA which is why I'd like them to sell up and go. |
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Post by Vestan Pance on May 15, 2018 9:41:33 GMT
Can't help but feel this relegation will turn out the best for us in the long run and this is why I feel this. Sorry in advance for the long essay. had we of stayed up, looking at our squad, there are 17/18 players in there that are quite simply not Good enough to be Premier league footballers anymore. there isn't a chance we'd be able to replace anywhere near enough of them in the summer, especially with the world Cup happening, the transfer window closing earlier and having two idiots in Scholes and cartwright sorting things! We would of been just putting off the inevitable for next season. How many teams have we seen battle relegation for a few years, under a dark cloud over the club, to finally go down, then go down again! The timing of going down this year is also in our favour. There are good players still under contract and not entering there last year where we'd be forced to sell. There isn't an international tournemant next summer either so players are not going to be playing for places in their country's lineup. Im hoping going down quickly will give us chance to rebuild, say half of the 17/18 players that aren't prem players anymore. Away from the intense spotlight and constant scrutiny of the Premier league media and hopefully install some squad harmony again. Maybe even have a crack at winning the damn thing. I'd gladly take a championship winning season over another relegation scrap! I don't think this club has ever won that trophy has it? although I'd take top 6 right now. Anyway, just my thoughts, I know others will think differently. I've always been inclined to agree. Our financial backing means we're in a good place, and getting smashed out of the league with less points than a fork can have irreparable reputational damage to the brand (Derby, Sunderland) I do get the opposite side of the coin however. |
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Post by sovietonion on May 15, 2018 9:45:22 GMT
I also think this duck. We have gone down atvthe first-time of asking. Time after time see clubs that have hovered over the trap door for 2-3 seasons and then they are gone. Everything was wrong this season , it all felt wrong, our luck, discipline, replacing the manager. This hopefully will act as a wake up to the board but stoke major overhaul is probably a change in the company that provide toilet rolls and hand wipes. Some players who think they are too good or stoke are just a pay packet will be whittled out by a manager who hopefully will show a strength and discipline we haven't had since tp. We need that DNA back and whilst we were dazzled by the lights of the prem this was slipping away This for me. There is something endemically wrong that staying up would only have papered over the cracks of. A bad start and what little confidence gained by escaping relegation would have been shot to shit. It would have been disastrous. We’ve known there have been problems for a while and I’m of the opinion that the board may have thought we had enough to go again without making any significant root and branch change. To me that has to be done at a lower level where any discord, tentativeness and experimentation has a slightly less chance of being mercilessly punished than the Prem. A solid foundation is needed first and foremost and a division where we can realistically expect to win maybe 12 games a season isn’t that place for me. |
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Post by sovietonion on May 15, 2018 9:50:06 GMT
I also think this duck. We have gone down atvthe first-time of asking. Time after time see clubs that have hovered over the trap door for 2-3 seasons and then they are gone. Everything was wrong this season , it all felt wrong, our luck, discipline, replacing the manager. This hopefully will act as a wake up to the board but stoke major overhaul is probably a change in the company that provide toilet rolls and hand wipes. Some players who think they are too good or stoke are just a pay packet will be whittled out by a manager who hopefully will show a strength and discipline we haven't had since tp. We need that DNA back and whilst we were dazzled by the lights of the prem this was slipping away This for me. There is something endemically wrong that staying up would only have papered over the cracks of. A bad start and what little confidence gained by escaping relegation would have been shot to shit. It would have been disastrous. We’ve known there have been problems for a while and I’m of the opinion that the board may have thought we had enough to go again without making any significant root and branch change. To me that has to be done at a lower level where any discord, tentativeness and experimentation has a slightly less chance of being mercilessly punished than the Prem. A solid foundation is needed first and foremost and a division where we can realistically expect to win maybe 12 games a season isn’t that place for me. On re-reading ‘12 games a season’ I’ve just realised how heavy my medication is. |
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Post by alster on May 15, 2018 9:56:34 GMT
Twisted logic designed to make us feel better IMHO - we would have been able to attract a better manager and players had we hung on - and our best players more likely to stay - as Coates will soon find out........ Naah if we'd hung on they would have kept Lambert and carried on cheapskating. They may well still do that but it shows them as liars if they do. |
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Post by foster on May 15, 2018 10:35:43 GMT
Seems to be a notion that the deadwood will want to leave now that we're down. More likely the best players will leave on the cheap while the deadwood hangs around picking up hefty wage packets that no one else will offer them.
I hope we do in any case just pay up and ship out the wasters, but this isn't something we've done over the past 10 years so I don't see what makes next year any different.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 10:38:57 GMT
Don't really care what league we're in, as long as we're entertaining to watch and look like we have a plan to improve in the future.
My best years as a stoke fan have all had that hope. Europa league, Cup final, 2015/16, promotion season, 6-1 Liverpool. Wasn't so much about the actual time, more so about what we thought was to come.
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Post by mrred on May 15, 2018 10:41:14 GMT
Said this a while ago. The club need a big wake up call, as well as ridding the problematic fuckers that got us into this mess. I sincerely hope the owners have learned from their mistakes and failures, but not even a week after they released that statement, they're still dithering with a decision on a manager. It's not a good start.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 15, 2018 17:16:04 GMT
We were looking at a major rebuild whether we stayed up or went down. In a way it is easier to rebuild in the Championship - we're a decent sized fish in a smaller pool rather than a small fish in a massive pool. For the same spend we could end up with a far more competitive team next year - however in the grand scheme of things it will be a team that in terms of overall quality will have set us back ten years - so even if we go up we've got a far harder job on our hands to stay up the following season.
If we'd have stayed up the wake up call and better investment would have probably seen us ok for another season in the Premiership and in a position to build from a far stronger position.
So in answer to the OP yes and no. But overall....no. From a club with aspirations to move up to the next level we're now a club with aspirations to someday have those aspirations again - which being realistic may never happen.
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Post by sufolkstokie on May 15, 2018 17:22:11 GMT
Absolutely They really are getting to grips with this relegation thing aren't they?
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 17:25:43 GMT
Not at all. Had we survived, that should have still made the club really shake up. We didn't, and now we run the risk of having our best players sold off, lose fans, lose a considerable amount of revenue and have to play the promotion roulette once again. Many teams look in 'good shape' to at least come back up but I'm not confident we're one of them.
It's far better to still have the huge resources and stay in the league to do so.
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Post by cousindupree on May 15, 2018 17:28:06 GMT
Yes we need to rebuild the squad not sure that it's that difficult in the premier league Watford since promotion seemingly turnover players and managers at the blink of an eye. The secret is to have good scouting and recruiting and make tough decisions quickly.
Maybe a reason why Watford are where the are and we are right in the shit
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Post by professorplump on May 15, 2018 17:35:12 GMT
Had we finished fourth from bottom we would probably have got double what we will now get for Shaq and I believe we could have rebuilt the team to keep us in the Prem. I don't see a single benefit from relegation.
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Post by thevoid on May 15, 2018 18:28:54 GMT
I can tolerate relegation as long as lessons are learned and processes are changed. At the minute, I see no evidence of either.
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