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Post by knowingeye on May 12, 2018 16:12:28 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on May 12, 2018 16:14:30 GMT
Yes, and taking a cheap out of work manager isn't a risk at all...
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:22:29 GMT
It undoubtedly is a risk. But so is bringing in someone new, even if they are experienced. There are plenty of unsuccessful 'experienced' managers out there.
If the players, fans and club are behind Darren Moore and he's performing well, then why shouldn't he be given the chance? The club might need to think about how they help and support him due to his lack of experience, but there's no reason why he can't get results in the Championship with WBA.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:39:31 GMT
Even though Lambert was out of work, he is still an experienced manager that has worked before, and been relatively successful at our level.
We've ended up going down for whatever reason.
Any manager appointment is a risk.
This country needs to get out of this ridiculous mindset of fear and mistrust of inexperience, and embrace it, nurture, support and coach it into excellence instead.
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Post by StatesideStokie on May 12, 2018 16:43:50 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense.
Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job.
The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:49:35 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense. Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job. The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop. Yeah, just that little-known team called Barcelona  As onlooker says, it should be based on ambition, talent, knowledge and understanding of the modern game; experience can actually make you complacent, uninspired and stuck in the past. |
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Post by StatesideStokie on May 12, 2018 19:34:14 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense. Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job. The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop. Yeah, just that little-known team called Barcelona As onlooker says, it should be based on ambition, talent, knowledge and understanding of the modern game; experience can actually make you complacent, uninspired and stuck in the past. The only managerial experience he had when taking the Barça job was less than a year coaching their B team. |
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Post by alster on May 12, 2018 19:41:57 GMT
Experience is over rated bad experience in football managers scars them and makes them too cautious to be successful. See Lambert.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 20:13:18 GMT
Yeah, just that little-known team called Barcelona As onlooker says, it should be based on ambition, talent, knowledge and understanding of the modern game; experience can actually make you complacent, uninspired and stuck in the past. The only managerial experience he had when taking the Barça job was less than a year coaching their B team. Indeed mate. I was agreeing that experience is not the be all and end all, even for one of the biggest clubs in the world. |
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Post by professorplump on May 12, 2018 21:43:36 GMT
If Moore himself feels he is up to the job then he probably deserves the chance. If necessary he could appoint an experienced assistant to help him through.
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Post by GoBoks on May 12, 2018 21:46:35 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense. Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job. The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop. But each of those learned their trade and proved themselves at a much lower level before making the step up. |
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Post by Godo on May 13, 2018 8:23:23 GMT
Yes because the experienced Pulis and Pardew did such a great job for them. So basically a manager who installed organisation effort and passion into the team isn't what they need what they really need is some unemployed serial failure. No wonder none of the top 6 have British managers! !
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2018 8:37:02 GMT
It's a ridiculous argument.
What more can he do than he already he has to prove he deserves that job?
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Post by alster on May 13, 2018 8:47:46 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense. Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job. The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop. But each of those learned their trade and proved themselves at a much lower level before making the step up. There is very little evidence that managing in the lower leagues is any sort of preparation for managing at the top level. Wannabe managers have to take jobs lower down the pyramid because thats where they can get them but there is not really much mobility between levels in the modern game. Successful league one and two managers don't tend to get jobs at the top level unless they have top level experience of either playing or coaching basically because the jobs and attributes to do them bear no resemblance to one another. |
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Post by fca47 on May 13, 2018 10:01:55 GMT
Not as though that many of their appointments have been successful.
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Post by adamsson on May 13, 2018 10:05:25 GMT
Appointing a proven failure is not a risk you know it will end badly |
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Post by GoBoks on May 13, 2018 10:11:34 GMT
But each of those learned their trade and proved themselves at a much lower level before making the step up. There is very little evidence that managing in the lower leagues is any sort of preparation for managing at the top level. Wannabe managers have to take jobs lower down the pyramid because thats where they can get them but there is not really much mobility between levels in the modern game. Successful league one and two managers don't tend to get jobs at the top level unless they have top level experience of either playing or coaching basically because the jobs and attributes to do them bear no resemblance to one another. That's like taking someone straight out of school and making them CEO of a fortune 500 company. Not a good idea. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 10:15:35 GMT
This fixation on “experience” really is utter nonsense. Lou Macari had no managerial experience when he started out with Swindon. Alex Ferguson has no managerial experience when he started out in the lower leagues of Scottish football in his early thirties. Pep Guardiola had no managerial experience when he took his first job. The current trend of employing experienced has beens and failures needs to stop. Its the most bizarre thing in football. Bring in an old experienced head half way through the season to replace another old experience head who will go on to replace another old experienced head. All of them usually just about scrap survival and then when they have a full preseason and bring in their own men, they generally fail and then get replaced by another old experienced head. Clubs are so scared of taking a chance, so scared of something new that it will never change. Moyes Pardew Fat Sam Pulis Lambert Etc... etc... All need replacing with some younger, more ambitious managers. No coincidence they all play a dated shit style of football. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 13, 2018 10:21:28 GMT
A disgustingly out of date attitude, often peddled out by pros who played in the era of “proper football” and think a step over is what you do at the disco.
He’s delivered what supposed “experience” has completely failed to do, and that’s get them looking competitive again, they’ll be seriously up there for promotion next season if Moore deservedly gets the job.
If he doesn’t, they deserve to wallow in mediocrity, much like ourselves because we seem stuck in the 1970’s when it comes to football, I’m not expecting us to gamble in the slightest though, taking a chance on “experience” has cost both teams a place in the league,
I’d much rather we take a chance on the unknown, if anything it’ll at least get some excitement back on the terraces.
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Post by OldStokie on May 13, 2018 10:39:43 GMT
Based solely on his achievements already he should get the job. The lad came withing a whisker of keeping them up when we all thought the final nail had been hammered into their coffin. Lambert is an experienced manager and has been around for years and look what he achieved! The argument for an 'experienced' manager is fascile unless you're about to invest half a billion quid into a squad.
OS.
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Post by lordb on May 13, 2018 11:07:00 GMT
If Albion don't give him the job would you have him here?
If Lambert was sacked we could do a lot worse.
Certainly better than Pardew.
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Post by Dr Hesham on May 13, 2018 11:16:58 GMT
Sure, It is risk for them, but it looks players and fans love him and try to help him.
They are discussing sacking a manager who got 10 points from 12 points against Man U, Liverpool, Tottenham and New Castle while Coates says he is loyal to managers and unfortunately his manager got 1 win in 5 months of PL (half a season).
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on May 13, 2018 11:23:47 GMT
Sure, It is risk for them, but it looks players and fans love him and try to help him. They are discussing sacking a manager who got 10 points from 12 points against Man U, Liverpool, Tottenham and New Castle while Coates says he is loyal to managers and unfortunately his manager got 1 win in 5 months of PL (half a season). Dr, I've really enjoyed your contribution to this board. I sincerely hope that even though we are no longer in the premier league and dispute Ramadan presence at the club that you have been bitten by the SCFC bug and continue to follow us from afar and more importantly post on The Oatcake, you are one of us  |
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Post by Dr Hesham on May 13, 2018 11:29:42 GMT
Sure, It is risk for them, but it looks players and fans love him and try to help him. They are discussing sacking a manager who got 10 points from 12 points against Man U, Liverpool, Tottenham and New Castle while Coates says he is loyal to managers and unfortunately his manager got 1 win in 5 months of PL (half a season). Dr, I've really enjoyed your contribution to this board. I sincerely hope that even though we are no longer in the premier league and dispute Ramadan presence at the club that you have been bitten by the SCFC bug and continue to follow us from afar and more importantly post on The Oatcake, you are one of us Thanks my friend, I enjoy the forum, the members and the discussions, I am really happy for being here. Just 1 season in Championship and Stoke will be back in a better form (in case Coates wants that), Looking at the bright side I think Wolverhampton fans enjoyed their last season in championship more than any fans for any mid table team in PL. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 11:36:15 GMT
If Albion don't give him the job would you have him here? If Lambert was sacked we could do a lot worse. Certainly better than Pardew. Indeed. Pardew was an unknown once too. Whoever comes in we need new blood at the club |
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Post by senojbor on May 13, 2018 11:53:11 GMT
The Baggies results at the end wasn't a true reflection of how good their team is. Playing end of season games with sod all to play for isn't a true reflection of form either.
Like us they will lose their better players and like us the close season is going to be crucial.
I believe both Lambert and Moore will keep their jobs. However if Stoke do decide to part company with Lambert, they have to do it this weekend and get someone in within a couple of weeks to plan ahead. Spending weeks and weeks sourcing a manager would be disastrous.
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Post by alster on May 13, 2018 12:57:41 GMT
There is very little evidence that managing in the lower leagues is any sort of preparation for managing at the top level. Wannabe managers have to take jobs lower down the pyramid because thats where they can get them but there is not really much mobility between levels in the modern game. Successful league one and two managers don't tend to get jobs at the top level unless they have top level experience of either playing or coaching basically because the jobs and attributes to do them bear no resemblance to one another. That's like taking someone straight out of school and making them CEO of a fortune 500 company. Not a good idea. No it isn't its like taking someone who has fulfilled a different role in a fortune 500 company and making them CEO (this happens) rather than getting someone who has been a CEO of tinpot outfit and making them CEO of a fortune 500 company (this doesn't happen). Their experience of being a CEO is meaningless and the environment and culture is completely alien to them. |
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Post by StatesideStokie on May 13, 2018 14:01:23 GMT
There is very little evidence that managing in the lower leagues is any sort of preparation for managing at the top level. Wannabe managers have to take jobs lower down the pyramid because thats where they can get them but there is not really much mobility between levels in the modern game. Successful league one and two managers don't tend to get jobs at the top level unless they have top level experience of either playing or coaching basically because the jobs and attributes to do them bear no resemblance to one another. That's like taking someone straight out of school and making them CEO of a fortune 500 company. Not a good idea. All those Facebook shareholders who are counting their returns might tell you otherwise. |
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Post by slother on May 13, 2018 15:03:47 GMT
If the chairman or whoever appoints a manager who was once successful and it goes wrong he can spin it to say that "the manager failed". If a chairman appoints an unknown it goes wrong it can only be said that the chairman's appointment was wrong. It's a policy of self-preservation for life's lucky chancers.
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