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Post by Vestan Pance on May 11, 2018 14:53:09 GMT
I have almost literally dodged this site for the entire premier league experience, but as this has now come to a close, i felt a poignant urge to come on and share some thoughts about the next chapter in our collective experience. It'll probably be long, so i'd quit while i was ahead if i were you.
Firstly, shame isn't it? We have fallen into a trap that is so bloody avoidable. We haven't failed as a result of foreign ownership losing interest and then pulling the financial plug, a fate commonplace in the Premier League (Sunderland, Villa, Pompey, Fulham etc), nor is our financial model unsustainable. We failed because of a heady mixture of misplaced loyalty, hesitancy and a bewildering inability to see what for us all of us was as clear as day. We were done as an effective force in this league in January 2016, and wholesale changes were required not only with the playing staff, who many were as unfit as they were disinterested, but of those who were in charge of overseeing and steering the club, and it is there i would like to place my focus.
Firstly, the myopic position taken on the playing situation. I don't blame Peter Coates, not in the slightest. Peter has few faults, but those he does have have been brutally exposed this season. Peter has openly said that he and his family place loyalty and stability high on their professional agenda, and in the wider business context this is to be applauded; these are the bedrocks upon which good companies are founded. But football is a business unlike any other, and you cannot simply transpose those qualities within a footballing context and expect success. The Coates family have continued to bend over backwards for their customers', ensuring a season ticket costs no more today than it did a decade ago despite the significant expenditure associated with Premier League football, and have supplemented that with offering free coach travel to supporters who are already financially burdened by an extremely expensive hobby. This has been rightly applauded throughout the football community, but whilst he was happy to offer customers (supporters) these concessions, what he failed to do was to address concerns, legitimate concerns being very vocally shared by supporters who are known to prefer to take a calm, measured approach to their club.
As supporters, i genuinely believe that we are among the easiest to please, certainly given our tenure in the Premier League. We don't expect tens of millions invested every window, nor did any sensible fan cry out for "the next level", what we expected, and would happily applaud, is endeavour, fitness, passion and a bit of flair if the opportunity arises. That's basically it. And as far back as spring 2016 it was apparent to a large section of our support, myself included, that we were losing significant compenent elements of this mixture. We were unfit, struggling in the latter stages of games, departing players were openly dismissive of our approach to defensive work and players who were coming in looked not to have the essential "DNA" of our club to make a significant impact, either on the pitch or in the dressing room. As supporters, we are consumers of the product. It is churlish to dismiss supporters because they "have never played". A good chunk of the people who are reading this will have seen upward of 500 matches, some many, many more. If Apple made an IPhone and their core consumers don't like it, you can be sure they would make the changes necessary to retain their custom, and support. Peter's "what's all the fuss about" was a flippant comment that has gained too much leverage, but it does speak to a boardroom who didn't understand that the supporters knew something was rotten, and it wasn't addressed. That's criminal in my book and somebody needs to carry the can for that.
My final point relates to the strategy for onboarding players, and this is where we have been most exposed as a football club. Footballers are, in a business context, assets to their company, no more, no less. We get emotive about players, because football is an emotive business, but for those who are tasked with bringing players to the club, it is imperative to be as dispassionate as possible. We haven't been. We have been guilty of loyalty to players who would never extend us the same courtesy (Johnson, Affelay, Ireland) when it was clear that their days were beyond numbered as professional footballers, let alone those plying their trade at the highest, most brutal level. We have given contracts to players like Darren Fletcher that their existing club would not..why is that? Because Albion knew it was very likely that his legs had gone, and they were only prepared to offer a contract befitting a 35 year old who has had ongoing issues from a medical perspective. That warning that we failed to heed will cost north of a million pounds most likely in cancelled contracts. It's no longer small fry and we seek to reduce our budget significantly.
The biggest, and most desperate area of failure has been big-name player recruitment, and this is where we have been negligent to the point of malfeasance. Aside from wages, we have paid £54,000,000 on 4 players (Imbula, Witter, Berahino, Jese) who have absolutely no interest in the profession, or the club who were paying them so handsomely. Going back to my earlier point regarding assets, what the hell happened? was any due diligence undertaken? if you're paying £18 Million for an asset, surely it is worth paying an extra £100,000 to a consultant to ensure you understand the person, as well as the talent? Imbula, Jese & Berahino all had documented off-field problems, and whilst you might be prepared to take a risk on 1, would you do it for three? in a dressing room that was widely known for not suffering fools gladly? Of course it was doomed to failure, and the cost of that failure is going to have a massive impact on our ability to compete next year. The Coates family might have huge wealth, but they still have to abide by FFP, and for the 3 assets still on our books, we'd be lucky to recoup half of the £48 Million spent. It's a disgrace.
And so, to conclude. Lambert has to go. He had the time and a transfer window to paper the cracks to keep us in the poorest Premier League i have seen us feature in, and he has spectacularly failed to do so. No loyalty, no hesitancy, he's gone after the Swansea game. he's not a bad man, he's just got an air of failure about him, and i'm frankly sick of having someone like that at the helm.
Tony Scholes has to go. Whilst he is not primarily responsible for player recruitment, the CEO has to carry the can for failure. He's been handsomely rewarded for his efforts, far more than he would have earned in a normal CEO role. Failure begets failure, and he's failed.
But the people i hold almost entirely responsible are Hughes and Cartwright. Hughes stopped caring, made bewilderingly stupid decisions knowing as he did that he would be cocooned by owners who hate confrontation. His choice of player, formation, squad and tactics are nothing short of disgraceful, and whilst i refuse to bit at Robbie Savage's twitter remarks, i understand those who do. The only saving grace is that he is bound to fail again at Southampton, because it is all he knows how to do. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire because of what he has done to my club. Cartwright is a disgrace to the role, his lack of due diligence, his failure to understand what sort of man we were buying, as well as what sort of player, is a mistake that will hamper the club for years. He will never work in football again after we get rid, and neither should he.
Thanks for reading.
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Post by Olgrligm on May 11, 2018 15:01:13 GMT
I think that's an incredibly fair, sensible and accurate post. There's not much more to say.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on May 11, 2018 15:06:38 GMT
Cracking post & sums up everything that is wrong at SCFC i would add that i think you let Peter Coates off lightly seeing that he has allowed all this to go on under his watch.
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Post by madelinesmithmmmh on May 11, 2018 15:11:30 GMT
Yup, reasoned and difficult to disagree with. I might argue that business in football is financial while supporters worry about bragging rights from the league position/cup glory. For both cases the management speak is "A right fucking Horlicks"
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Post by Los Alfareros on May 11, 2018 15:19:01 GMT
Bang on VP.
It will take quite a few on here about 10 years to read that.
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Post by fazza90 on May 11, 2018 15:30:50 GMT
Very good read.
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Post by jezzascfc on May 11, 2018 15:57:40 GMT
VP, top post and very accurate. I presume a business background, given the use of terms like onboarding?
It is shame that some of us on here who do know our way around legal, accounting and business matters are never hired, or ever consulted, by a company which appoints amateurs and ne'er-do-wells to posts which far outstrip their levels of competence. I am sure Denise never does so in the main business, so why the family seems happy to do so in their very expensive hobby continues to mystify me.
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mjb2
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 79
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Post by mjb2 on May 11, 2018 18:50:39 GMT
Apart from being too kind to PC, this is spot on---it is the avoidability which hurts the most!
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Post by brumstokie on May 11, 2018 21:00:05 GMT
Good to see you back VP. In your post the 2 key points that resonate with me are with regard to recruitment and the correct assessment of the timescale relating to our decline. Running a business you cannot learn everything about your recruits when you take them on but Christ on a bike you can conduct proper due diligence & learn from a variety of sources that the striker you have been chasing for ages has a series of behavioural trate that make him unsuitable, a Spanish guy has serious personal problems that will severely impact on his use & a defender that has hardly played for the last 3 years was unlikely to be able to deliver the fitness levels required of him. It's of course difficult to apply or apportion blame but even if Hughes initially pushed for these signings Teflon & Carthorse are in positions where it's their jobs to do the due diligence & then say no to such signings - for that reason the business owner must say they have failed, lost me a lot of money over the last 18 months & left me liabilities for years to come & you both are no longer required. My other main bugbear is the hesitation to take action when it was necessary. Hughes should have been replaced at the end of last season when a good supply of candidates for the job were available. If the rumours are correct Hughes was very likely to go if we had lost at Watford. I watched that game, we won a dire match with the only shot on target in the game. He should have gone then despite the win. Then the 2 final nails in the Premier league status coffin. Firstly we get rid of Hughes when we obviously didn't do the appropriate due diligence to ensure we had a definite replacement ready to sign. At that point we were dead in the water. Secondly we fell for the story of a desperate chancer that he knew what our squad was about & he had the know how to get enough out of it to move us to safety. PL has failed miserably & for that reason must go. All of that of course is easy to say, it confirms our mistakes but does not address what now happens to turn the situation back to a positive one. That's where I get depressed - there will be a race to the exit door by players that see themselves better than Championship status & a need for a great number of new players that are up to the new challenge. There are 3 positions to fill with people that are considerably better than the current incumbents that have to deal with probably a total of 25+ in & outs in just over 3 months. I'm not traditionally a pessimist but that's a business scenario I wouldn't like to have to manage.
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Post by Vestan Pance on May 14, 2018 8:38:00 GMT
Good to see you back VP. In your post the 2 key points that resonate with me are with regard to recruitment and the correct assessment of the timescale relating to our decline. Running a business you cannot learn everything about your recruits when you take them on but Christ on a bike you can conduct proper due diligence & learn from a variety of sources that the striker you have been chasing for ages has a series of behavioural trate that make him unsuitable, a Spanish guy has serious personal problems that will severely impact on his use & a defender that has hardly played for the last 3 years was unlikely to be able to deliver the fitness levels required of him. It's of course difficult to apply or apportion blame but even if Hughes initially pushed for these signings Teflon & Carthorse are in positions where it's their jobs to do the due diligence & then say no to such signings - for that reason the business owner must say they have failed, lost me a lot of money over the last 18 months & left me liabilities for years to come & you both are no longer required. My other main bugbear is the hesitation to take action when it was necessary. Hughes should have been replaced at the end of last season when a good supply of candidates for the job were available. If the rumours are correct Hughes was very likely to go if we had lost at Watford. I watched that game, we won a dire match with the only shot on target in the game. He should have gone then despite the win. Then the 2 final nails in the Premier league status coffin. Firstly we get rid of Hughes when we obviously didn't do the appropriate due diligence to ensure we had a definite replacement ready to sign. At that point we were dead in the water. Secondly we fell for the story of a desperate chancer that he knew what our squad was about & he had the know how to get enough out of it to move us to safety. PL has failed miserably & for that reason must go. All of that of course is easy to say, it confirms our mistakes but does not address what now happens to turn the situation back to a positive one. That's where I get depressed - there will be a race to the exit door by players that see themselves better than Championship status & a need for a great number of new players that are up to the new challenge. There are 3 positions to fill with people that are considerably better than the current incumbents that have to deal with probably a total of 25+ in & outs in just over 3 months. I'm not traditionally a pessimist but that's a business scenario I wouldn't like to have to manage. I think this is why the notion of an immediate return needs to be put to one side. It would take a turnaround of biblical proportions to turn us into an effective unit capable of a promotion push, not should that be our objective for next season. I've heard tales of Cartwright being against the signing of Imbula, but the point is he should have put his foot down. Managers can moan about having the "overall say" but no club, or business, runs like that. The ramifications of the players signed in the latter part of Hughes' reign will not be felt by Hughes, they will be felt by Stoke City & the Coates family, and ultimately that is who Cartwright is responsible to. Hughes should have been talked down and it is no good blaming people after the event. It doesn't wash.
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Post by mrred on May 14, 2018 8:44:59 GMT
Vestan.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on May 14, 2018 8:47:58 GMT
Agree with most of that apart from the Iphone adage. They will buy any old shit as long as it's got an Apple symbol on it.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on May 14, 2018 8:48:20 GMT
Says it all about why we are where we are and the size of the task ahead .
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Post by Vestan Pance on May 14, 2018 8:50:01 GMT
Agree with most of that apart from the Iphone adage. They will buy any old shit as long as it's got an Apple symbol on it. Might not have been the best analogy. Pretty sure if there was an ITurd there'd be a queue round the block... You get my drift though old bean...
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Post by KevinWhimper on May 14, 2018 8:53:08 GMT
Brilliant post mate, welcome back.
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Post by foster on May 14, 2018 8:56:23 GMT
Great post, and as you say, we'll be lucky to get half the money back on those 3 players. I doubt we'll even get a third.
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Post by chumley on May 14, 2018 8:56:47 GMT
Good read and can't argue with it..
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Post by stokecity4life on May 14, 2018 8:59:21 GMT
I have almost literally dodged this site for the entire premier league experience, but as this has now come to a close, i felt a poignant urge to come on and share some thoughts about the next chapter in our collective experience. It'll probably be long, so i'd quit while i was ahead if i were you. Firstly, shame isn't it? We have fallen into a trap that is so bloody avoidable. We haven't failed as a result of foreign ownership losing interest and then pulling the financial plug, a fate commonplace in the Premier League (Sunderland, Villa, Pompey, Fulham etc), nor is our financial model unsustainable. We failed because of a heady mixture of misplaced loyalty, hesitancy and a bewildering inability to see what for us all of us was as clear as day. We were done as an effective force in this league in January 2016, and wholesale changes were required not only with the playing staff, who many were as unfit as they were disinterested, but of those who were in charge of overseeing and steering the club, and it is there i would like to place my focus. Firstly, the myopic position taken on the playing situation. I don't blame Peter Coates, not in the slightest. Peter has few faults, but those he does have have been brutally exposed this season. Peter has openly said that he and his family place loyalty and stability high on their professional agenda, and in the wider business context this is to be applauded; these are the bedrocks upon which good companies are founded. But football is a business unlike any other, and you cannot simply transpose those qualities within a footballing context and expect success. The Coates family have continued to bend over backwards for their customers', ensuring a season ticket costs no more today than it did a decade ago despite the significant expenditure associated with Premier League football, and have supplemented that with offering free coach travel to supporters who are already financially burdened by an extremely expensive hobby. This has been rightly applauded throughout the football community, but whilst he was happy to offer customers (supporters) these concessions, what he failed to do was to address concerns, legitimate concerns being very vocally shared by supporters who are known to prefer to take a calm, measured approach to their club. As supporters, i genuinely believe that we are among the easiest to please, certainly given our tenure in the Premier League. We don't expect tens of millions invested every window, nor did any sensible fan cry out for "the next level", what we expected, and would happily applaud, is endeavour, fitness, passion and a bit of flair if the opportunity arises. That's basically it. And as far back as spring 2016 it was apparent to a large section of our support, myself included, that we were losing significant compenent elements of this mixture. We were unfit, struggling in the latter stages of games, departing players were openly dismissive of our approach to defensive work and players who were coming in looked not to have the essential "DNA" of our club to make a significant impact, either on the pitch or in the dressing room. As supporters, we are consumers of the product. It is churlish to dismiss supporters because they "have never played". A good chunk of the people who are reading this will have seen upward of 500 matches, some many, many more. If Apple made an IPhone and their core consumers don't like it, you can be sure they would make the changes necessary to retain their custom, and support. Peter's "what's all the fuss about" was a flippant comment that has gained too much leverage, but it does speak to a boardroom who didn't understand that the supporters knew something was rotten, and it wasn't addressed. That's criminal in my book and somebody needs to carry the can for that. My final point relates to the strategy for onboarding players, and this is where we have been most exposed as a football club. Footballers are, in a business context, assets to their company, no more, no less. We get emotive about players, because football is an emotive business, but for those who are tasked with bringing players to the club, it is imperative to be as dispassionate as possible. We haven't been. We have been guilty of loyalty to players who would never extend us the same courtesy (Johnson, Affelay, Ireland) when it was clear that their days were beyond numbered as professional footballers, let alone those plying their trade at the highest, most brutal level. We have given contracts to players like Darren Fletcher that their existing club would not..why is that? Because Albion knew it was very likely that his legs had gone, and they were only prepared to offer a contract befitting a 35 year old who has had ongoing issues from a medical perspective. That warning that we failed to heed will cost north of a million pounds most likely in cancelled contracts. It's no longer small fry and we seek to reduce our budget significantly. The biggest, and most desperate area of failure has been big-name player recruitment, and this is where we have been negligent to the point of malfeasance. Aside from wages, we have paid £54,000,000 on 4 players (Imbula, Witter, Berahino, Jese) who have absolutely no interest in the profession, or the club who were paying them so handsomely. Going back to my earlier point regarding assets, what the hell happened? was any due diligence undertaken? if you're paying £18 Million for an asset, surely it is worth paying an extra £100,000 to a consultant to ensure you understand the person, as well as the talent? Imbula, Jese & Berahino all had documented off-field problems, and whilst you might be prepared to take a risk on 1, would you do it for three? in a dressing room that was widely known for not suffering fools gladly? Of course it was doomed to failure, and the cost of that failure is going to have a massive impact on our ability to compete next year. The Coates family might have huge wealth, but they still have to abide by FFP, and for the 3 assets still on our books, we'd be lucky to recoup half of the £48 Million spent. It's a disgrace. And so, to conclude. Lambert has to go. He had the time and a transfer window to paper the cracks to keep us in the poorest Premier League i have seen us feature in, and he has spectacularly failed to do so. No loyalty, no hesitancy, he's gone after the Swansea game. he's not a bad man, he's just got an air of failure about him, and i'm frankly sick of having someone like that at the helm. Tony Scholes has to go. Whilst he is not primarily responsible for player recruitment, the CEO has to carry the can for failure. He's been handsomely rewarded for his efforts, far more than he would have earned in a normal CEO role. Failure begets failure, and he's failed. But the people i hold almost entirely responsible are Hughes and Cartwright. Hughes stopped caring, made bewilderingly stupid decisions knowing as he did that he would be cocooned by owners who hate confrontation. His choice of player, formation, squad and tactics are nothing short of disgraceful, and whilst i refuse to bit at Robbie Savage's twitter remarks, i understand those who do. The only saving grace is that he is bound to fail again at Southampton, because it is all he knows how to do. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire because of what he has done to my club. Cartwright is a disgrace to the role, his lack of due diligence, his failure to understand what sort of man we were buying, as well as what sort of player, is a mistake that will hamper the club for years. He will never work in football again after we get rid, and neither should he. Thanks for reading. The best thing i`ve read on here in years. Sums up every point perfectly.
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Post by mrred on May 14, 2018 9:03:05 GMT
Great post mate and good to see you back. Agree entirely. We know that as supporters we can influence the club, or have a big say in their considerations. Liam Lawrence pretty much begged us to do it last night. We need to heap pressure on getting Scholes and Cartwright out the door. I firmly believe they, along with Hughes have set us back years and need to be culled from our great club.
This 'we should be thankful and lucky for what we have' attitude needs to go and I believe it's permeated from the CEO. The blasé attitude and his comments of "that's football" when fronted with the question of what's happened this season the other week tells you everything you need to know about how little he cares about our plight, and worryingly how comfortable he is. We are a great, traditional club, it's time we started getting that pride back.
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Post by redstriper on May 14, 2018 9:13:34 GMT
Good summary, reasoned conclusions.
I can't disagree with any of that.
We do have the benefit of hindsight, so I agree with going easy on PC.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 14, 2018 11:01:08 GMT
Bang on VP. It will take quite a few on here about 10 years to read that. We might be back in the Premier League by the time they've finished
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 14, 2018 11:06:47 GMT
Just out of curiosity, and I remember you from the old GDB days, why did you avoid the site so much during the PL era?
Excellent conclusions, btw, spot on imo.
The only bits I find myself disagreeing with are the statements about not expecting tens of millions spent in the transfer windows (we did, lots of us did) and lots of people on here did indeed cry out for the club to be taken to the next level. Whether or not they were 'sensible' I'll leave up to you to decide!
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Post by skip on May 14, 2018 11:12:36 GMT
Cracking assessment and welcome back.
If Coates (plural) don't sack Cartwright and Scholes they will only have themselves to blame.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on May 14, 2018 11:40:24 GMT
VP, top post and very accurate. I presume a business background, given the use of terms like onboarding? It was a great post apart from the use of "onboarding" and the now acknowledged poor Apple analogy.
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Post by Vestan Pance on May 14, 2018 13:22:17 GMT
Just out of curiosity, and I remember you from the old GDB days, why did you avoid the site so much during the PL era? Excellent conclusions, btw, spot on imo. The only bits I find myself disagreeing with are the statements about not expecting tens of millions spent in the transfer windows (we did, lots of us did) and lots of people on here did indeed cry out for the club to be taken to the next level. Whether or not they were 'sensible' I'll leave up to you to decide! Hiya, DavesViews. I lost my rag with it all. It went from being a fun place to exchange thoughts/opinions to either waiting for DavesViews to appear, asking where he had gone, or bombarding him with a million desperate questions, none of which got answered. I remember some poster congratulating him on a excellent transfer window, and that was when i shut my metaphorical laptop. I am (significantly) older and wiser now, and am in far better position to ignore it all.
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Post by Vestan Pance on May 14, 2018 13:23:39 GMT
VP, top post and very accurate. I presume a business background, given the use of terms like onboarding? It was a great post apart from the use of "onboarding" and the now acknowledged poor Apple analogy. I can understand your point of view. I had just finished writing a paper. I have to use words like that a lot to stay in with the cool kids. I'll try to refrain in future....
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Post by johnmarshcardschool on May 14, 2018 13:48:34 GMT
Fantastic post Mr Pance, thank you.
Never imagined I would read the word 'malfeasance' used on here either. Unless we signed a lad called Mal Feasance, but that's two words anyway...
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Post by brumstokie on May 14, 2018 14:40:31 GMT
Good to see you back VP. In your post the 2 key points that resonate with me are with regard to recruitment and the correct assessment of the timescale relating to our decline. Running a business you cannot learn everything about your recruits when you take them on but Christ on a bike you can conduct proper due diligence & learn from a variety of sources that the striker you have been chasing for ages has a series of behavioural trate that make him unsuitable, a Spanish guy has serious personal problems that will severely impact on his use & a defender that has hardly played for the last 3 years was unlikely to be able to deliver the fitness levels required of him. It's of course difficult to apply or apportion blame but even if Hughes initially pushed for these signings Teflon & Carthorse are in positions where it's their jobs to do the due diligence & then say no to such signings - for that reason the business owner must say they have failed, lost me a lot of money over the last 18 months & left me liabilities for years to come & you both are no longer required. My other main bugbear is the hesitation to take action when it was necessary. Hughes should have been replaced at the end of last season when a good supply of candidates for the job were available. If the rumours are correct Hughes was very likely to go if we had lost at Watford. I watched that game, we won a dire match with the only shot on target in the game. He should have gone then despite the win. Then the 2 final nails in the Premier league status coffin. Firstly we get rid of Hughes when we obviously didn't do the appropriate due diligence to ensure we had a definite replacement ready to sign. At that point we were dead in the water. Secondly we fell for the story of a desperate chancer that he knew what our squad was about & he had the know how to get enough out of it to move us to safety. PL has failed miserably & for that reason must go. All of that of course is easy to say, it confirms our mistakes but does not address what now happens to turn the situation back to a positive one. That's where I get depressed - there will be a race to the exit door by players that see themselves better than Championship status & a need for a great number of new players that are up to the new challenge. There are 3 positions to fill with people that are considerably better than the current incumbents that have to deal with probably a total of 25+ in & outs in just over 3 months. I'm not traditionally a pessimist but that's a business scenario I wouldn't like to have to manage. I think this is why the notion of an immediate return needs to be put to one side. It would take a turnaround of biblical proportions to turn us into an effective unit capable of a promotion push, not should that be our objective for next season. I've heard tales of Cartwright being against the signing of Imbula, but the point is he should have put his foot down. Managers can moan about having the "overall say" but no club, or business, runs like that. The ramifications of the players signed in the latter part of Hughes' reign will not be felt by Hughes, they will be felt by Stoke City & the Coates family, and ultimately that is who Cartwright is responsible to. Hughes should have been talked down and it is no good blaming people after the event. It doesn't wash. Agreed - Cartwright's job is to do the correct amount of research on potential recruits & then say whether it's a yes or no. He's either done that & then been ignored ( in which case why do we have his job position anyway) or he's said yes too many times in which case he should be gone ( whether the yes replies were down to poor judgement or yielding to pressure from others)
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Post by Squeekster on May 14, 2018 14:48:44 GMT
Listening to Pat Nevin yesterday and he was talking a lot of sense in one respect, he was saying that a manager could go out and spend millions and millions on players on long contracts only for him to leave or get sacked leaving behind a lot of money and players a new manager doesn't want.
This is where Scholes and Cartwright In our case come in, between them and the board they scout players that they feel will be an asset to the club for the long-term outlook.
Not saying this is the way to go but Nevin made a good case for it, although he wasn't saying he's for it just playing devil's advocate.
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Post by salopstick on May 14, 2018 15:14:18 GMT
Just out of curiosity, and I remember you from the old GDB days, why did you avoid the site so much during the PL era? Excellent conclusions, btw, spot on imo. The only bits I find myself disagreeing with are the statements about not expecting tens of millions spent in the transfer windows (we did, lots of us did) and lots of people on here did indeed cry out for the club to be taken to the next level. Whether or not they were 'sensible' I'll leave up to you to decide! Hiya, DavesViews. I lost my rag with it all. It went from being a fun place to exchange thoughts/opinions to either waiting for DavesViews to appear, asking where he had gone, or bombarding him with a million desperate questions, none of which got answered. I remember some poster congratulating him on a excellent transfer window, and that was when i shut my metaphorical laptop. I am (significantly) older and wiser now, and am in far better position to ignore it all. Mardy Cunt
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