Is top level football on the decline?

[wakefieldstokie]

Is top level footy on the decline?

I dont know whether its Stokes situation contributing but I find the Premier League quite dull in recent seasons. The bias for the top six, the shite commentary and biased views. Too much money in the game, super rich players. Is this all making it less interesting for the everyday man or woman?

[bayernoatcake]

I don't think it's been a vintage season for any of the elite top divisions bar Serie A.

We've had Man City walk away with the league here.

Barca in Spain.

Bayern in Germany.

PSG in France.

And none of them bar Man City have been playing consistently outstanding football. And then even Man City have slipped up where it mattered in Europe.

And it looks like Real will win the Champions League and they're no great shakes either.

Is it the money? Are players just not trying as hard because the World Cup is coming up?

No idea but the quality of the football across the board seems lower this season than it has been for years.

[rawli]

When you've got teams simply playing not to lose heavily and a 1-0 defeat being seen as a great performance, you know you've got a problem. The Champions League is great in the latter stages but it is causing domestic football to wither on the vine as so much money is concentrated on so few teams.

[dirtygary69]

When Man City buy full backs for £50 odd million, it does make it all pretty uninspiring. They play great football but I can't really lavish praise on them because of the obscene amounts of money they've spent. It is all about who has the bigger cheque book and until that changes, the lower echelons of the league will always suffer. Still rather be in than out of it though.

[stokieinaus]

It’s been on the decline for a while.
It’s certainly losing its appeal when the top sides have the pick of the best, we are only dreaming if we think we can compete with them.
Realistically, does anyone think we will ever do better than an 8th or 9th premier league finish?
Unless things change with football in general we will only ever be a mid table team.
The question is would people be happier winning the championship or staying as a mid table premier team?

[wakefieldstokie]

Apr 30, 2018 12:10:01 GMT dirtygary69 said:

When Man City buy full backs for £50 odd million, it does make it all pretty uninspiring. They play great football but I can't really lavish praise on them because of the obscene amounts of money they've spent. It is all about who has the bigger cheque book and until that changes, the lower echelons of the league will always suffer. Still rather be in than out of it though.

It would be interesting to hear what Chelsea, Utd and man City fans think. I know a couple of man city fans that are obviously pleased with their team winning things, but that said, they've gone off going evry week, or watching everygame on TV for that matter.

[dirtygary69]

Apr 30, 2018 12:28:18 GMT wakefieldstokie said:

Apr 30, 2018 12:10:01 GMT dirtygary69 said:

When Man City buy full backs for £50 odd million, it does make it all pretty uninspiring. They play great football but I can't really lavish praise on them because of the obscene amounts of money they've spent. It is all about who has the bigger cheque book and until that changes, the lower echelons of the league will always suffer. Still rather be in than out of it though.

It would be interesting to hear what Chelsea, Utd and man City fans think. I know a couple of man city fans that are obviously pleased with their team winning things, but that said, they've gone off going evry week, or watching everygame on TV for that matter.

I don't know how much I'd enjoy supporting a team who is only successful because of the money they've spent, when they've been largely shite for the last two decades. Doesn't it take the passion out of it a bit? 

[GoBoks]

Apr 30, 2018 11:56:54 GMT wakefieldstokie said:

Is top level footy on the decline?

I dont know whether its Stokes situation contributing but I find the Premier League quite dull in recent seasons. The bias for the top six, the shite commentary and biased views. Too much money in the game, super rich players. Is this all making it less interesting for the everyday man or woman?

How do you keep anything, including football, freash and interesting? As an example, say you discover a phenomenal restaurant, best food you’ve ever tasted. So good, you cannot wait for the next weekend to come round so you can go again. You decide once a week this will be your treat. Week after week, month after month, year after year. The food is as good as ever. The chef adds new dishes and updates old ones regularly, but somehow it becomes less and less appealing until eventually you stop going. The product is better than ever, more imaginatively packaged and better players, “..... but I remember Sir Stan, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Jimmy G, <or whoever>. These days nothing can match them”. In reality Messi, Ronaldo,et al are probably twice the player any of them ever were and none of them would be able to match their accomplishments in today’s faster environment.

People will always think back on the good old days with longing while simultaneously craving something even more exciting and new.

How do we fix it? Refer to the posts on every single fans forum that appear at least every 2 months and the solutions discussed ad nauseum ranging from bring back standing to a NFL style draft system. In fact, thinking about it, this message board is a bit stale. I remember the good old days when we had quality posters like Guernsey Dave............

[Deleted]

Is top level footy on the decline?

Ours is ☹️😬

[lordb]

In England, definitely.
The complete lack of quality even for top ten sides is shocking.

If the Premier League want an attractive product there needs to be a viable, competitive reason for non glamour clubs to try to play attractive football.
At the moment the overriding objective for at least twelve clubs is to avoid the drop,this leads to turgid defensive football.

[Stretfordpotterer]

Not sure it's so much the quality thats ever the problem. It's the style.

Way too much counter attack plays counter attack.

Don't know if it's just me but i watch a lot of games now and i'm bored rigid then there's a goal out of the blue. Yeh, it's often a great goal, but it's come from nothing, there often seems to be very little ebb and flow to a lot of it at the moment.

What i loved about the stoke team of 08/09 was that although we often didn't have much of the game, what bit we did have we would spend it camped inside the opponents half with a flurry of well worked set pieces. So you always got the sense that we were in a game, that we would create at least half a dozen chances, at home anyway.

Now, if a lower half team beats a top team you feel like they often have to score their only half chance.

I don't really feel there's as much of one team having another camped in their own box anymore full stop, which is part of the excitment of English football.

[Royal Donut]

The constant change of mangers has not helped. Some managers dont even have a player they signed. How can you perform to your best with some one else's tools.

[senojbor]

No, but the gap between the genuine title contenders and the also rans is widening.
Football has changed and apart from Leicester winning the PL I doubt if we will ever see anyone outside of the top four winning it again.
I remember different clubs like Villa, Everton, Derby, Forest, Leeds and even we came close.
So for supporters like us the PL is a struggle from season to season.
Let's hope for some excitement next season come what may

[bayernoatcake]

Apr 30, 2018 12:47:39 GMT Royal Donut said:

The constant change of mangers has not helped. Some managers dont even have a player they signed. How can you perform to your best with some one else's tools.

Easily?

As you say it's a common thing now and has been in Europe for decades. It's a poor excuse.

[pez75]

I think this has been a poor season in the Prem in particular.

Outside the top 6 only Burnley can say they have had a good season and they are dire to watch. The mid-table teams expected to do well (us, west ham, Southampton) have all vastly under-performed and with the exception of Everton are all involved in a relegation battle. That leaves the grafting teams scrapping for points.

Apart from Citeh & Spurs it has not been pretty at the top either.

[vahl]

Apr 30, 2018 12:35:04 GMT GoBoks said:

How do you keep anything, including football, freash and interesting? As an example, say you discover a phenomenal restaurant, best food you’ve ever tasted. So good, you cannot wait for the next weekend to come round so you can go again. You decide once a week this will be your treat. Week after week, month after month, year after year. The food is as good as ever. The chef adds new dishes and updates old ones regularly, but somehow it becomes less and less appealing until eventually you stop going. The product is better than ever, more imaginatively packaged and better players, “..... but I remember Sir Stan, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Jimmy G, <or whoever>. These days nothing can match them”. In reality Messi, Ronaldo,et al are probably twice the player any of them ever were and none of them would be able to match their accomplishments in today’s faster environment.

People will always think back on the good old days with longing while simultaneously craving something even more exciting and new.

How do we fix it? Refer to the posts on every single fans forum that appear at least every 2 months and the solutions discussed ad nauseum ranging from bring back standing to a NFL style draft system. In fact, thinking about it, this message board is a bit stale. I remember the good old days when we had quality posters like Guernsey Dave............

Not sure about that considering we're supporting a club that's been around since the 1800's.

What's kept it interesting for this long?

[Staffsoatcake]

The Premier league is too top heavy,sooner or later it will all come tumbling down.

[kristoff]

I’m not gonna lie, I was sick of it after 12 months. Whilst it’s great to say we have bloody noses to some top teams, it has killed my passion for the game. Premier league is a cancer, wish the FA would force the to teams to just fuck off

[vahl]

It's not just the Premier League, it's all leagues. It's caused by transfers being anything over £100m, I'd say.

These £100m+ transfers are killing teams off, even top teams themselves. Defenders and goalkeepers can be star players now, every position can have a player worth £100m+.

The next conveyor belt of 'kids' will be setting even better standards too and probably be worth even more than this generation. English football in particular (international) has seen this coming - our teams below senior are shit hot.

What this means on its current path is that Champions League teams will eventually have 11 players starting that are all costing roughly the same amounts of money. 11 players with transfer tags of £100m+.

In the mean time, overall standards drop because its harder for the 'other clubs' to stay competitive.

You could say some people saw this coming with the emphasis on successful academies being a thing a few years back but if that's the case, why have Fifa just let it happen. Just cap fees and wages, job done. Sorted in 7 words.

[MooG]

Yes and No.

The change is mostly down to the way money keeps getting concentrated. EG: being in the Champions League attracts money and players which guarantees you will be in the Champions League. It's a double whammy because the likes of Man City and Chelsea can afford to have massive numbers of players on their books which not only makes them better teams but denies those players to everybody else.

I'd say that the top clubs are as good, if not better, than they've ever been but the number of good matches is vastly reduced because of how much better they are than the second tier.

[redstriper]

Apr 30, 2018 12:03:07 GMT bayernoatcake said:

I don't think it's been a vintage season for any of the elite top divisions bar Serie A.

We've had Man City walk away with the league here.

Barca in Spain.

Bayern in Germany.

PSG in France.

And none of them bar Man City have been playing consistently outstanding football. And then even Man City have slipped up where it mattered in Europe.

And it looks like Real will win the Champions League and they're no great shakes either.

Is it the money? Are players just not trying as hard because the World Cup is coming up?

No idea but the quality of the football across the board seems lower this season than it has been for years.

You've missed out Celtic

Brenda thinks they've won an elite league dontcha know

[bayernoatcake]

Apr 30, 2018 14:14:48 GMT redstriper said:

Apr 30, 2018 12:03:07 GMT bayernoatcake said:

I don't think it's been a vintage season for any of the elite top divisions bar Serie A.

We've had Man City walk away with the league here.

Barca in Spain.

Bayern in Germany.

PSG in France.

And none of them bar Man City have been playing consistently outstanding football. And then even Man City have slipped up where it mattered in Europe.

And it looks like Real will win the Champions League and they're no great shakes either.

Is it the money? Are players just not trying as hard because the World Cup is coming up?

No idea but the quality of the football across the board seems lower this season than it has been for years.

You've missed out Celtic

Brenda thinks they've won an elite league dontcha know

Has he actually said that? I felt pushed to include France in there tbh.

[professorplump]

I think the gap in quality between the bottom half of the PL and the top 7 or 8 of the Championship has narrowed considerably. No doubt Wolves will strengthen in the summer but the team they have at the moment would probably already be good enough to stay up.

[Mr_DaftBurger]

Apr 30, 2018 15:10:39 GMT professorplump said:

I think the gap in quality between the bottom half of the PL and the top 7 or 8 of the Championship has narrowed considerably. No doubt Wolves will strengthen in the summer but the team they have at the moment would probably already be good enough to stay up.

Narrowed due to lack of quality?

[skip]

Capital is doing what Capital always does, it seeks to remove competition. Capitalists would argue that money breeds competition but I would argue the adverse is true. Tesco have forced Asda and Sainsbury's to seek to propose a new amalgam company. Man City et al, are reducing the competition in football. Google is all but a monopoly in terms of on-line search engines.

In simple terms, big money hasn't just made the playing field uneven, it's ruining it for all but the elite. Everyone else is a makeweight / sparring partner / punchbag.

And don't get me started on football clubs as brands.

[Deleted]

Money means that none of the lower teams have any ambition beyond survival. Even teams that are spending big money are still shit-scared enough to keep the 'back to basics' managerial merry-go-round going.

[leicspotter]

Apr 30, 2018 16:01:03 GMT @lilfraise said:

Money means that none of the lower teams have any ambition beyond survival. Even teams that are spending big money are still shit-scared enough to keep the 'back to basics' managerial merry-go-round going.

This. Outside the top 6 all the clubs are living in fear of relegation, and the financial costs associated with that, as we are soon likely to find out.

That means a "safety first" approach (boring) and teams like Burnley on the edge of European qualification having scored only a few more goals than Stoke...but conceding considerably less!!

Not long ago we were the "blueprint" for newly promoted teams...I guess that won't be the case much longer

[GoBoks]

Apr 30, 2018 13:17:42 GMT vahl said:

Apr 30, 2018 12:35:04 GMT GoBoks said:

How do you keep anything, including football, freash and interesting? As an example, say you discover a phenomenal restaurant, best food you’ve ever tasted. So good, you cannot wait for the next weekend to come round so you can go again. You decide once a week this will be your treat. Week after week, month after month, year after year. The food is as good as ever. The chef adds new dishes and updates old ones regularly, but somehow it becomes less and less appealing until eventually you stop going. The product is better than ever, more imaginatively packaged and better players, “..... but I remember Sir Stan, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Jimmy G, <or whoever>. These days nothing can match them”. In reality Messi, Ronaldo,et al are probably twice the player any of them ever were and none of them would be able to match their accomplishments in today’s faster environment.

People will always think back on the good old days with longing while simultaneously craving something even more exciting and new.

How do we fix it? Refer to the posts on every single fans forum that appear at least every 2 months and the solutions discussed ad nauseum ranging from bring back standing to a NFL style draft system. In fact, thinking about it, this message board is a bit stale. I remember the good old days when we had quality posters like Guernsey Dave............

Not sure about that considering we're supporting a club that's been around since the 1800's.

What's kept it interesting for this long?

I'm told that "hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way", But I think that it's a revolving door. As some chuck it in, others get the bug. What keeps restaurants open? Maybe it's all just one huge Ponzi scheme and the entire world is going to come to a screeching halt next week when there are no more suckers left to con? I don't know ..... maybe the answer is 42? I am getting to be too old to care ..... I'm going to go sit on the beach and think of how grand sitting on the beach used to be but somehow these modern beaches just don't come close!

[GoBoks]

Apr 30, 2018 17:51:40 GMT leicspotter said:

Apr 30, 2018 16:01:03 GMT @lilfraise said:

Money means that none of the lower teams have any ambition beyond survival. Even teams that are spending big money are still shit-scared enough to keep the 'back to basics' managerial merry-go-round going.

This. Outside the top 6 all the clubs are living in fear of relegation, and the financial costs associated with that, as we are soon likely to find out.

That means a "safety first" approach (boring) and teams like Burnley on the edge of European qualification having scored only a few more goals than Stoke...but conceding considerably less!!

Not long ago we were the "blueprint" for newly promoted teams...I guess that won't be the case much longer

We're still the blueprint for newly promoted teams and will continue to be. We will also be the black print (what not to do) for teams that have had 6-8 years in the prem, even when we complete our great escape !

[skip]

Apr 30, 2018 16:01:03 GMT @lilfraise said:

Money means that none of the lower teams have any ambition beyond survival. Even teams that are spending big money are still shit-scared enough to keep the 'back to basics' managerial merry-go-round going.

Exactement.