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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:03:28 GMT
He's basically a 1 in 7 striker for us in the Premier League. Under any measure he is not very good. The older he"s got the worse he's got as well. He couldnae finish a fish supper. Still he tries and runs around a bit. 1 in 5 Momo.......
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 29, 2018 16:07:24 GMT
For example. Liverpool. Fowler, then Owen, then Torres, then Suarez, now Salah. All legends, all replaced I think look at your timeline for Liverpool again. That’s s something like saying from Ritchie to Hurst to Stein to Thorne to Fuller. There’s a reason that caused Liverpool to go from 18 seasons out of 19 never being out of the top 2 in the league to 3 top 2 placings in the next 26 years. I bet Liverpool fans consider that as big a failure as Stokies think of our decades out of the top flight. No it’s not. Fowler started scoring in 93, Owen 96ish ? until 2004, Torres 2007- 2011, Suarez 2011- 2014, Salah 2017 Hardly decades between them, and chuck in other quality strikers that didn’t quite get legend status.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 29, 2018 16:08:36 GMT
He's basically a 1 in 7 striker for us in the Premier League. Under any measure he is not very good. The older he"s got the worse he's got as well. He couldnae finish a fish supper. Still he tries and runs around a bit. Exactly- how did we get to this after 10 years of more money and experience?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:10:59 GMT
Diouf's top flight record elsewhere;
1 in 5 for Man Yoo
3 in 26 for Blackburn
26 in 57 for Hannover
So 1 in 2.9
Fuller's
1 in 31 for Portsmouth
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2018 16:20:09 GMT
So for us. Fuller 18 in 110 so 6.1 games per goal Diouf 23 in 120 so 5.2 game per goal. Fuller obviously played in a lesser side. Diouf has played more on the wing and at right back. Neither as pure stats go are great records! I would like to have seen Fuller in a side with Arnie and N'Zonzi. Think his stats might have improved a bit.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 29, 2018 16:20:36 GMT
GASP Berahino?!?!? Crikey! Fuller did much more than score goals, though. He changed games and made football enjoyable. He was also underused in the Premier League. You're banging your head against a brick wall here Tricky, he doesn't want to know. He can't see beyond the numbers, not sure if it's an American sports thing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:22:25 GMT
So for us. Fuller 18 in 110 so 6.1 games per goal Diouf 23 in 120 so 5.2 game per goal. Fuller obviously played in a lesser side. Diouf has played more on the wing and at right back. Neither as pure stats go are great records! I would like to have seen Fuller in a side with Arnie and N'Zonzi. Think his stats might have improved a bit. Diouf was 1 in 3 then! But yes me too.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2018 16:27:17 GMT
I would like to have seen Fuller in a side with Arnie and N'Zonzi. Think his stats might have improved a bit. Diouf was 1 in 3 then! But yes me too. Yeah, I thought Diouf was better then(everything was!). He does seem to have gone backwards. What a decline we have seen all round.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2018 16:29:44 GMT
Fuller did much more than score goals, though. He changed games and made football enjoyable. He was also underused in the Premier League. You're banging your head against a brick wall here Tricky, he doesn't want to know. He can't see beyond the numbers, not sure if it's an American sports thing. In fairness it was Silver Dollar's point, and Boks might have just been shuddering at the name Berahino?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 29, 2018 16:32:32 GMT
He's basically a 1 in 7 striker for us in the Premier League. Under any measure he is not very good. The older he"s got the worse he's got as well. He couldnae finish a fish supper. Still he tries and runs around a bit. 1 in 5 Momo....... Fair enough mate although it's much nearer one in six than one in five and since his first season it's nearer one in ten! It's hard not to like him but he's not even an average Premier League striker in my view.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:32:40 GMT
Diouf was 1 in 3 then! But yes me too. Yeah, I thought Diouf was better then(everything was!). He does seem to have gone backwards. What a decline we have seen all round. I don't think he ever recovered from the time period around his Mum dying. Obviously it's a massive mental issue especially how it happened. But then he came back and was stuck in at right back etc. It's going to dent a strikers confidence. It's a massive slight.
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Post by RAF on Apr 29, 2018 16:33:41 GMT
Fuller Prem Record -
141 Appearances 19 Goals Shooting Accuracy 35% Assists 7 Tackles 67 28 Yellows 2 Red
Diouf Prem Record -
152 Appearances 27 Goals Shooting Accuracy 38% Assists 9 Tackles 174 22 Yellows 0 Reds
H
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:33:50 GMT
Fair enough mate although it's much nearer one in six than one in five and since his first season it's nearer one in ten! It's hard not to like him but he's not even an average Premier League striker in my view. It is but how many times has he played up front in that time? I think Hughes absolutely destroyed every morsel of confidence the bloke had as a striker.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 29, 2018 16:37:27 GMT
You're banging your head against a brick wall here Tricky, he doesn't want to know. He can't see beyond the numbers, not sure if it's an American sports thing. In fairness it was Silver Dollar's point, and Boks might have just been shuddering at the name Berahino? It was Silver Dollar I was on about mate.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2018 16:39:40 GMT
Fuller Prem Record - 141 Appearances 19 Goals Shooting Accuracy 35% Assists 7 Tackles 67 28 Yellows 2 Red Diouf Prem Record - 152 Appearances 27 Goals Shooting Accuracy 38% Assists 9 Tackles 174 22 Yellows 0 Reds H How many of Fuller's appearances were 20 minute cameos, though? In a very defensive Pulis side?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2018 16:40:29 GMT
In fairness it was Silver Dollar's point, and Boks might have just been shuddering at the name Berahino? It was Silver Dollar I was on about mate. Sorry, mate. It's been one of those weeks! 😁
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Post by RAF on Apr 29, 2018 16:51:38 GMT
Fuller Prem Record - 141 Appearances 19 Goals Shooting Accuracy 35% Assists 7 Tackles 67 28 Yellows 2 Red Diouf Prem Record - 152 Appearances 27 Goals Shooting Accuracy 38% Assists 9 Tackles 174 22 Yellows 0 Reds H How many of Fuller's appearances were 20 minute cameos, though? In a very defensive Pulis side? Not sure.The site I got the stats from didn't say. Just like it didn't say how many games at right back/wing Diouf played. No doubt Fuller was more exciting. H
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 29, 2018 16:52:55 GMT
We’ve gone from a world class player to a pub player! Actually that useless lump would struggle get in most pub sides Not wishing to cause offence but Ric was not world class. Fuller was terrific. However, the last world class player we had who was world class when he played for us was Banks. The one before that was Matthews. I am not convinced there have been any others. Hudson possibly was the next closest. Cliff Carr was close I guess. Of course, that is my opinion. Not necessarily a statement of fact.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 16:57:07 GMT
How many of Fuller's appearances were 20 minute cameos, though? In a very defensive Pulis side? Not sure.The site I got the stats from didn't say. Just like it didn't say how many games at right back/wing Diouf played. No doubt Fuller was more exciting. H Indeed he was but he was never what I'd call a natural goalscorer and would miss some glaring chances. The same goes for Arnie who is another I loved but should have scored a lot more for us. All 3 of them fit that category. What Ric and Arnie had though was so much more skill and the ability to score the spectacular goal. All 3 have been excellent for us.
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Post by silverdollar on Apr 29, 2018 17:23:06 GMT
I didn't want my initial statement to create an argument and I thought I clearly stated who I thought was the better striker but you cannot poo poo the actual stats which are clear indicators of the striking ability of all players. I remember some of Fuller's wonderful finishes for Stoke and they were just great but nevertheless he did not score many at Premiership level.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 17:25:52 GMT
He's basically a 1 in 7 striker for us in the Premier League. Under any measure he is not very good. The older he"s got the worse he's got as well. He couldnae finish a fish supper. Still he tries and runs around a bit. He’s not a one in seven striker though mate and you know it. 2017/18 -16 starts up front 4 goals 2016/17 - 7 starts up front 1 goal 2015/16 - 15 starts up front 5 goals 2014/15 - 23 starts up front 8 goals 61 games up front and 18 goals (a goal every 3.5 games)
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 29, 2018 17:30:34 GMT
I didn't want my initial statement to create an argument and I thought I clearly stated who I thought was the better striker but you cannot poo poo the actual stats which are clear indicators of the striking ability of all players. I remember some of Fuller's wonderful finishes for Stoke and they were just great but nevertheless he did not score many at Premiership level. You can't poo poo them but you can put context to them which you are going out of your way to ignore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 17:31:21 GMT
Diouf is currently at his par. 1 in 5 and he's got 2 in 11 under Lambert.
His shots per game is currently at 1.7 under Lambert, which is roughly what it was when he scored 11 goals under Hughes in 2015 - 1.6.
His stats across the board are virtually identical now as they were back then, except two key metrics:
Aerial duels won - 4.2 per game now and 1.6 per game back then. Pass Success - 57% now compared to 66% back then.
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Post by walrus on Apr 29, 2018 17:37:07 GMT
I wonder if we'll be here in ten years bemoaning a particularly immobile striker we have at that point and saying "Don't you just wish we had someone who put himself about like Mame Diouf used to."
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2018 17:38:24 GMT
I wonder if we'll be here in ten years bemoaning a particularly immobile striker we have at that point and saying "Don't you just wish we had someone who put himself about like Mame Diouf used to." Peter Crouch 👍
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 29, 2018 17:45:57 GMT
"Fuller was a scorer of great goals, not a great goalscorer"
I hate that phrase but it's true.
They're two very different types of striker. Fuller was clever, skilful, entertaining, excellent to watch. Everything he did was measured and thoughtful. Whenever he scored it was exactly what he intended to do.
Diouf could hardly be more opposite. As soon as he gets a moment to think, he fucks it up. He's panicky. He's got the touch of a rhino. What he does have is a split second instinct and an uncanny knack of getting the ball to bounce off him into the right direction.
I should really say had, because he's completely lost that too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 17:50:21 GMT
Simply we haven't had a decent goalscorer since we've entered this league. For me Beattie was close.
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Post by shrewspotter on Apr 29, 2018 18:10:06 GMT
It's hard not to like Diouf. However the quality in the box is just not there.
Many of us said it at the time, we should have strengthened up front in January and failed to do so. It will cost us I'm sure
For me if we must play Mame and I can see many reasons why he should play, he would play on the wings instead of Ramadan. God knows who should play up front though 🤞
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 29, 2018 18:16:16 GMT
Might Fuller have been both a scorer of great goals and a great goal scorer in a more open team though?
We’ll never know.
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Post by silverdollar on Apr 29, 2018 18:34:41 GMT
I didn't want my initial statement to create an argument and I thought I clearly stated who I thought was the better striker but you cannot poo poo the actual stats which are clear indicators of the striking ability of all players. I remember some of Fuller's wonderful finishes for Stoke and they were just great but nevertheless he did not score many at Premiership level. You can't poo poo them but you can put context to them which you are going out of your way to ignore. I am not at any point devaluing the role Fuller played in Stoke's rise to the summit of British League football. I even have stated that I would select him ahead of Diouf and Berahino. I loved watching the guy. The history of the Premier League will in the end not waste many paragraphs on the quality of Stoke's strikers in the last ten years and in the end goal scorers are judged on the goals a player scores and Fuller, Diouf and Berahino will not really feature as greats! Context has nothing to do with it!
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