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Post by leoncort on Apr 24, 2018 20:18:52 GMT
Correct, we won't attract the big names from europe obviously. But we will still be able to poach the best players from the championship, and players who cant get in some premier league teams. Like the toon did when signing Ritchie, Gayle and Diame. This, with a few loans and maybe a couple of cheaper 'gambles' from europe, and we will hopefully mount a challange. Bring it on. Small time thinking yet again, if we have the ambition and the right manager and actually back up that ambition we will be able to get some biggish European/British names in, money talks, especially if a player can see a team/club that is ambitious. If you want an example look at how Wolves have transformed themselves. Not small club mentality, it’s called being realistic.
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Post by pavel on Apr 24, 2018 20:24:04 GMT
Small time thinking yet again, if we have the ambition and the right manager and actually back up that ambition we will be able to get some biggish European/British names in, money talks, especially if a player can see a team/club that is ambitious. If you want an example look at how Wolves have transformed themselves. Not small club mentality, it’s called being realistic. Well I’m so pleased Wolves have been so realistic! No they have been ambitious and the have reinvented themselves. That’s what ambition can do. We have billionaire owners, let’s be ambitious.
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 24, 2018 20:32:34 GMT
The club have always had a small time mentality. There is no intention to spend big to get back.....those running and owning the club demonstrated that this season.
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Post by Scrotnig on Apr 24, 2018 20:35:10 GMT
I think we'll invest where we can....
There's only a certain player who's prepared to play in the Championship...
We aren't attracting any "big" names unfortunately, we need to attract good Championship players on a Championship wage that will have a sell on value when we get promoted...
Correct, we won't attract the big names from europe obviously. But we will still be able to poach the best players from the championship, and players who cant get in some premier league teams. Like the toon did when signing Ritchie, Gayle and Diame. This, with a few loans and maybe a couple of cheaper 'gambles' from europe, and we will hopefully mount a challange. Bring it on. This is what we'd all like to happen. What will ACTUALLY happen: We'll spend most of the window not signing anybody at all. A couple of times the club will issue statements along the lines of having various targets we are chasing. By the end of the window we'll have signed two loan players from other championship clubs who aren't good enough to make the first team, and are then injured after one match, and also one player on a free from a league one club. And that'll be it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 20:41:41 GMT
I can see us becoming a yoyo team. Doubt the desire to spend what's needed to stay in the prem is there. In fact we've already been shown that it isn't. The club is wedded to self-sufficiency not BET365 throwing mega bucks at the club, that's pretty much set in stone. So we are owned by one of the richest families in the UK but it is of little use without major investment. We might as well be owned by someone like Bill Kenwright, passionate about his club but smallfry financially Self-sufficiency eventual relegates you. Why because you have to have both a crack recruitment team that can replace the 'stars' you have sold with at least a decent player so the team isn't majorly reduced in quality. We failed miserable in this aspect. Also you need players from the academy seriously knocking on the door of the first team and that's not really happening. Southampton were the 'template' for survival at this level but couldn't sustain it. The only club who adopt self-sufficiency (although not so much now) and stayed in the Prem is Everton. Everyone else eventually goes some return others don't. The thing about selling is you need a quality brand name to put on the back. look how we paid £18 million for a Spurs back stamp even though it should have been labelled Made in Hong Kong. Call me old fashioned but the record signing at a club should be "The Fittest", "Fastest" "Best Shot" or something other than scrap heap. Maybe that's Coates BIG mistake , perhaps he thought he had lost the Rugby Club stamp and replaced it with Brand Stokelona. Now some would beg to have the Rugby Club tag back again as at least it would be a team.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 20:51:04 GMT
Coates hasn't even hinted at financial backing, despite being under the cosh from fans and clear unrest amongst supporters.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 24, 2018 21:18:17 GMT
I can see us becoming a yoyo team. Doubt the desire to spend what's needed to stay in the prem is there. In fact we've already been shown that it isn't. The club is wedded to self-sufficiency not BET365 throwing mega bucks at the club, that's pretty much set in stone. So we are owned by one of the richest families in the UK but it is of little use without major investment. We might as well be owned by someone like Bill Kenwright, passionate about his club but smallfry financially Self-sufficiency eventual relegates you. Why because you have to have both a crack recruitment team that can replace the 'stars' you have sold with at least a decent player so the team isn't majorly reduced in quality. We failed miserable in this aspect. Also you need players from the academy seriously knocking on the door of the first team and that's not really happening. Southampton were the 'template' for survival at this level but couldn't sustain it. The only club who adopt self-sufficiency (although not so much now) and stayed in the Prem is Everton. Everyone else eventually goes some return others don't. You are right. The only clubs that remain in the Premier League are those where "self sufficiency" no longer has any meaning in the sense of "self sufficiency" for the teams not in their situation. The top six are "self sufficient" because they cream in more money than anyone else by the fact that they are constantly in the top six and have no realistic chance of being relegated. A "disaster" is not getting in the Champions League. Their situation determines the terms of their "self sufficiency". And only teams in the top six (ie six teams) are self sufficient in that sense. Th clubs outside the top six that don't have an eye on self sufficiency in a realistic sense blow up. Leeds, Portsmouth, Bolton and Blackburn are classic examples, Supporters spending someones else's money in order to become one of the untouchables has (bizarrely) somehow become an expectation for Stoke supporters. When exactly did we become Arsenal without actually being Arsenal? For anyone who who has been a Stoke supporter for any length of time it's worse than being Arsenal, It might be me but I like supporting Stoke. The real one - not some sort of Arsenal wannabe club,
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Post by leoncort on Apr 24, 2018 21:32:45 GMT
Not small club mentality, it’s called being realistic. Well I’m so pleased Wolves have been so realistic! No they have been ambitious and the have reinvented themselves. That’s what ambition can do. We have billionaire owners, let’s be ambitious. We’ve had billionaire owners this season, and when we got 25m for our best attacking player we replaced him with a free and a loan.. Wolves have a ‘super’ agent handing players to them on a plate, we’re reliant on Cartwright and Scholes to sign some ambitious signings, get real.
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Post by pavel on Apr 25, 2018 9:15:20 GMT
Well I’m so pleased Wolves have been so realistic! No they have been ambitious and the have reinvented themselves. That’s what ambition can do. We have billionaire owners, let’s be ambitious. We’ve had billionaire owners this season, and when we got 25m for our best attacking player we replaced him with a free and a loan.. Wolves have a ‘super’ agent handing players to them on a plate, we’re reliant on Cartwright and Scholes to sign some ambitious signings, get real. and that is why we need change at the club, root and branch change, if we settle for second best we will be 2nd best. I don’t need to get real,?I just have a different opinion than you. I want the club to be ambitious and if we, as supporters, just accept mediocrity, that’s what we will get.
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Post by leoncort on Apr 25, 2018 9:38:20 GMT
We’ve had billionaire owners this season, and when we got 25m for our best attacking player we replaced him with a free and a loan.. Wolves have a ‘super’ agent handing players to them on a plate, we’re reliant on Cartwright and Scholes to sign some ambitious signings, get real. and that is why we need change at the club, root and branch change, if we settle for second best we will be 2nd best. I don’t need to get real,?I just have a different opinion than you. I want the club to be ambitious and if we, as supporters, just accept mediocrity, that’s what we will get. I get that, but we could have been ambitious over the past 5 years? once stabalised in the premier league, we could have had a higher net spend, buyign wisely and taking small risks on talented players to establish a top half finish? When we slipped to 13th, would alarm bells not ring? That was the time for an ambitious injection of cash/players? not selling our best asset to not replace him. Now we find our selves in the second tier (lets be real), why now would this prompt some ambition? dont get me wrong i hope you are correct and i hope PC gets in a manager who will attract players whilst also keeping some in for a season in the chamionship. the toon kept Shelvey etc, so no reason we can't keep ndiaye, allen, Bauer etc.unless silly bids come in. i worry that if we sell players we will replace them on the cheap and can't see us doing a wolves and spending 15m on players in the second tier.
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Post by pavel on Apr 25, 2018 10:20:33 GMT
and that is why we need change at the club, root and branch change, if we settle for second best we will be 2nd best. I don’t need to get real,?I just have a different opinion than you. I want the club to be ambitious and if we, as supporters, just accept mediocrity, that’s what we will get. I get that, but we could have been ambitious over the past 5 years? once stabalised in the premier league, we could have had a higher net spend, buyign wisely and taking small risks on talented players to establish a top half finish? When we slipped to 13th, would alarm bells not ring? That was the time for an ambitious injection of cash/players? not selling our best asset to not replace him. Now we find our selves in the second tier (lets be real), why now would this prompt some ambition? dont get me wrong i hope you are correct and i hope PC gets in a manager who will attract players whilst also keeping some in for a season in the chamionship. the toon kept Shelvey etc, so no reason we can't keep ndiaye, allen, Bauer etc.unless silly bids come in. i worry that if we sell players we will replace them on the cheap and can't see us doing a wolves and spending 15m on players in the second tier. Agree with all you say there, I just hope this has been a sobering experience for the board and they learn some lessons when we actually go down. It may be a vain hope but I thing as supporters we should make it clear it’s what we expect from them. It may not make any difference but they should know our discontent. What’s coming out of the club at the moment though doesn’t fill me with hope either.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Apr 25, 2018 15:21:32 GMT
I think the difficulty in terms oa a quick return might be the players we cant move on taking up too much in wages .
There must be some risk of Butland Shaq Allen possibly Badu Ryan and Bruno all getting offers from prem teams , that doesnt leave a lot of quality left then add Bojan and Imbula to that with big wages to fund
From what is left who might be part of a successful championship squad
Grant Edwards Bauer Pieters , Possibly Cameron and Ireland if they stay fit can do a job then some unknowns if any of our young players are good enough , Ngoy probably the best hope
We still have Adam Diouf Fletcher Crouch Ramadan Berahino Choupo Bojan Imbula Wimmer all on contracts all on good money none really good enough or with the right attitude for that league.
We might see a stiker or two come in but I think it will be mostly loans in and out
I find it very hard to see how we get back in the near future .
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Post by stokechalky on Apr 25, 2018 19:56:11 GMT
Think the next 12mnths will define the club for years to come. Next season in the Championship the crowds will probably be around the 20,000 mark, but if the team performs badly without a realistic chance of promotion then this will fall to 15,000 pretty sharpish. This will then be the perfect excuse to roll out the usual self sufficiency & spending within your means propaganda that has been the backdrop of the Coates era. The mistakes over the last 18mths have been staggering & mostly self-inflicted. The Championship is littered with bigger clubs than Stoke who have struggled & without investment, good judgement & some luck then it may be a good few years before we grace the premiership again.
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Post by hanibal7 on Apr 26, 2018 10:50:53 GMT
Think the next 12mnths will define the club for years to come. Next season in the Championship the crowds will probably be around the 20,000 mark, but if the team performs badly without a realistic chance of promotion then this will fall to 15,000 pretty sharpish. This will then be the perfect excuse to roll out the usual self sufficiency & spending within your means propaganda that has been the backdrop of the Coates era. The mistakes over the last 18mths have been staggering & mostly self-inflicted. The Championship is littered with bigger clubs than Stoke who have struggled & without investment, good judgement & some luck then it may be a good few years before we grace the premiership again. Are u actually saying that about 12000 are plastic fans, who go early and don't shout when we are a goal down, or when a team equalise, NEVER, mmmmm now you think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 11:00:34 GMT
There's a theory that, if you're held as a hostage, the sooner you try to escape the better your chances. Same theory might apply if/when we go down. Is that the same theory that Terry Waite used
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