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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 5, 2018 8:33:28 GMT
we don't know the details. If he was attacked and grabbed a knife and stabbed the intruder and that's it then it isn't murder. But it must be investigated. If he stabbed him in (let's say the arm) the intruder drops his screw driver and holds his arm up saying "ok, I'm sorry, call the police " and he turns to leave and the bloke stabs him 5 times in the back and a few more times on the floor then that's murder. We don't know the full details. we only know a few details but there is one thing we do know. these two burglars were inside the gentlemans property uninvited. the pensioner has done nothing wrong and needs to be released immediately. Well we don't know the pensioner did nothing wrong because, as you say, we only know a few details. If it's self defence it will go no further.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 5, 2018 8:35:58 GMT
In my line of work we call that the domestic abuser's defence. Also this was part of the reason marital rape was not illegal until 1991. You are a shelf stacker at aldi though . But we have a few terms for your kind in the real world too š Is there a bigger form of cowardice than trying to insult an individual online?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 8:36:38 GMT
You are a shelf stacker at aldi though . But we have a few terms for your kind in the real world too š Is there a bigger form of cowardice than trying to insult an individual online? You should know cyber cuck
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Apr 5, 2018 8:46:24 GMT
You are a shelf stacker at aldi though . But we have a few terms for your kind in the real world too š Is there a bigger form of cowardice than trying to insult an individual online? To be fair, you did effectively put Leadbelly in the same category as a domestic abuser, so it's no surprise that you got some shit thrown at you! Your original point had validity, but you could have made it differently.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 8:48:51 GMT
Is there a bigger form of cowardice than trying to insult an individual online? To be fair, you did effectively put Leadbelly in the same category as a domestic abuser, so it's no surprise that you got some shit thrown at you! Your original point had validity, but you could have made it differently. Comparing someone who defends their house against intruders to a woman beater/raper then he wonders why I bite back typical internet troll
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Post by harryh157 on Apr 5, 2018 10:19:20 GMT
we don't know the details. If he was attacked and grabbed a knife and stabbed the intruder and that's it then it isn't murder. But it must be investigated. If he stabbed him in (let's say the arm) the intruder drops his screw driver and holds his arm up saying "ok, I'm sorry, call the police " and he turns to leave and the bloke stabs him 5 times in the back and a few more times on the floor then that's murder. We don't know the full details. Still not seeing too much wrong with what you describe..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 10:42:23 GMT
Bailed already, personally think this will have a good ending.
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 5, 2018 11:14:13 GMT
Bailed already, personally think this will have a good ending. āHeās out on bail & out of jail & thatās the way it goes...ā
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Post by nott1 on Apr 5, 2018 16:56:04 GMT
Bailed already, personally think this will have a good ending. āHeās out on bail & out of jail & thatās the way it goes...ā Should stay that way, and every similar case. If everyone acted in the some brave way there would be no burglars!Exterminate....exterminate....exterminate....
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 5, 2018 16:57:36 GMT
Is there a bigger form of cowardice than trying to insult an individual online? To be fair, you did effectively put Leadbelly in the same category as a domestic abuser, so it's no surprise that you got some shit thrown at you! Your original point had validity, but you could have made it differently. I attacked his argument, he ignored the argument and got personal
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 5, 2018 17:05:24 GMT
To be fair, you did effectively put Leadbelly in the same category as a domestic abuser, so it's no surprise that you got some shit thrown at you! Your original point had validity, but you could have made it differently. Comparing someone who defends their house against intruders to a woman beater/raper then he wonders why I bite backĀ Ā typical internet trollĀ I attacked your argument, you get personal. It's not a nuanced way of arguing or making your point.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 5, 2018 17:06:56 GMT
we don't know the details. If he was attacked and grabbed a knife and stabbed the intruder and that's it then it isn't murder. But it must be investigated. If he stabbed him in (let's say the arm) the intruder drops his screw driver and holds his arm up saying "ok, I'm sorry, call the police " and he turns to leave and the bloke stabs him 5 times in the back and a few more times on the floor then that's murder. We don't know the full details. Still not seeing too much wrong with what you describe.. One gets you several years in prison, the other doesn't. That's the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 17:13:48 GMT
Comparing someone who defends their house against intruders to a woman beater/raper then he wonders why I bite backĀ Ā typical internet trollĀ I attacked your argument, you get personal. It's not a nuanced way of arguing or making your point. No you attacked me I responded but fair enough I take your point on board
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 5, 2018 17:17:34 GMT
My daughter is a serving police officer and says itās standard procedure to arrest someone under these circumstances. It will be investigated as a murder initially and go from there. It would be rediculous to simply say heās killed in self defence, which he may well have done, without conducting an investigation which will include the arrest and interview under caution. I really hope it was self defence and he walks free.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 17:40:01 GMT
Interesting debate on 5Live this morning, drawing parallels with the Tony Martin case. He went to prison because what he did was determined to be pre meditated, he knew the pikeys were coming back to burgle him, having been targeted several times before, so he actually lay in wait for them, with his shot gun, however the sad fact in his case is that the Police totally failed him. Not sure if this is a true account, or one of them urban myths, but there was a story doing the rounds years ago, a bloke woke up in the night and saw intruders breaking into his shed, he dialed 999 and was told it would be 2 or 3 hours before anyone could get there, so he hung up, called em again, and said, no worries, I have shot them ( He hadn't) within minutes there was an armed response vehicle and a few more cars at his house... " You said you shot them..." said the cops... " You said you couldn't be here for 2 or 3 hours" was his reply. And I think he got charged for wasting police time...Like I say...Not sure if true, but does sort of resonate a bit...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 17:43:10 GMT
Still not seeing too much wrong with what you describe.. One gets you several years in prison, the other doesn't. That's the difference. Both are morally right though.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Apr 5, 2018 17:59:22 GMT
Bailed already, personally think this will have a good ending. āHeās out on bail & out of jail & thatās the way it goes...ā Thank you for the clarification, Melle Mel.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 5, 2018 18:19:16 GMT
My daughter is a serving police officer and says itās standard procedure to arrest someone under these circumstances. It will be investigated as a murder initially and go from there. It would be rediculous to simply say heās killed in self defence, which he may well have done, without conducting an investigation which will include the arrest and interview under caution. I really hope it was self defence and he walks free. You're right Lawrie As an ex officer, The Police cannot simply say" we think you did ok, thats the end of the matter" They are not judge and jury. The decision on what action to take does not / should not rest with the Police. They simply present the facts/ evidence usually in support of a prosecution, should ( in this serious case) the CPPR seem that the evidence warrants prosecution. Obviously in this case , if the facts are as they seem to be reported, most right minded( in my opinion) people would hope that the law says that this pensioner was put in a position , not of his making, and acted with courage and " unfortunately" the miscreant , having put himself in a position where he should have known was risky and simply against the Law came off worse.... therefore justice ( of a sorts) was done. All too often it seems as though the law is in fact an asset, and appears to protect the human rights of the ( clearly) criminal. I've had instances in which a drink person has come into Stoke Police station to report their car stolen. Seconds later someone has reported the car found crashed against lampposts etc. I've said " You've crashed it haven't you" . The reply" Yes, but you'll never prove it".....it's sometimes difficult to get to the truth
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Apr 5, 2018 18:22:39 GMT
Bailed already, personally think this will have a good ending. āHeās out on bail & out of jail & thatās the way it goes...ā "A businessman is caught..with 25 kilo"
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 5, 2018 18:24:39 GMT
āHeās out on bail & out of jail & thatās the way it goes...ā "A businessman is caught..with 25 kilo" āFreebase!ā
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Post by felonious on Apr 5, 2018 21:15:48 GMT
One gets you several years in prison, the other doesn't. That's the difference. Both are morally right though. You're wasting your time talking to lawyers about morals.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 6:36:55 GMT
Both are morally right though. You're wasting your time talking to lawyers about morals. Quite right, morality doesn't enter the equation. Because they are entirely subjective.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 11:14:20 GMT
The offender's family doesn't seem too brilliant. It does seem that as a society we are paying the price for tolerance..,....all very fine until it affects each of us , personally and regularly, and then we'd be forced to take stronger action. Criminal family jailed for more than 54 years Henry Joseph Vincent 2003 - Jailed four-and-a-half years 2009 - Jailed for six years Henry Charles Vincent (father) 2003 - Jailed for five-and-a-half years 2011 - Jailed for six years Robert Vincent (uncle) 2003 - Jailed for four-and-a-half years 2011 - Jailed for eight years 2017 - Jailed for five years, 3 months Clifford Vincent (uncle) 2003 - Jailed four-and-a-half years David Vincent (uncle) 2003 - Jailed for six years John Jack Vincent (uncle) 2003 - Jailed for two years Steven Vincent (uncle) 2003 - Jailed for 21 months dailym.ai/2GCHwnz
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 11:29:34 GMT
Should be commended for his bravery, not prosecuted! Coppers got to nick him, due process & all, but itās going nowhere Bang on š
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 6, 2018 17:26:59 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Apr 6, 2018 17:31:43 GMT
Obviously justice
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 17:35:08 GMT
I wonder if the dead man's family will try for a civil action......or take another course themselves
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 6, 2018 17:38:47 GMT
I wonder if the dead man's family will try for a civil action......or take another course themselves His Human rights have been well and truly fucked . The snowflake lawyers will be all over it
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 6, 2018 18:20:44 GMT
Can you imagine what thoughts were going through the burgers mind as he realised he was going from predator/parasite to victim. The Horror
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Post by harryh157 on Apr 6, 2018 20:10:48 GMT
Still not seeing too much wrong with what you describe.. One gets you several years in prison, the other doesn't. That's the difference. Does it? Although he appeared to be giving in I felt It may be a ruse to get me to lower my guard... I genuinely felt at the time that my life was in danger so I took such action I felt necessary to protect myself as an elderly pensioner. If Iām on the jury it convinces me and if his mucker says something different then Iām going with the home owner as the more reliable witness. Doesnāt really matter as it seems justice is done but Iām a big fan of a home owner having the right to protect his home.
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