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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2018 9:28:58 GMT
And I note, although it goes unsaid here, most goals conceded too! I think out biggest problem is we are no longer able to get hold of the ball and keep it so we come under some heavy artillery on a regular basis and in the end you are going to concede in those circumstances. Whatever anyone tells you there is a link between possession and goals, just ask Barcelona or Bayern Munich or indeed Man City. I really don't understand quite how and when it happened. Our possession stats were excellent under early days Hughes, we were right there, then something slipped...  |
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Post by thegift on Mar 28, 2018 9:33:59 GMT
We have very limited players that are comfortable on the ball, that can hold it, have a look and make a pass. Ndiaye and allen are, cameron (hardly plays), and ireland (never plays). Who else is comfortable?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 28, 2018 9:58:48 GMT
And I note, although it goes unsaid here, most goals conceded too! I think out biggest problem is we are no longer able to get hold of the ball and keep it so we come under some heavy artillery on a regular basis and in the end you are going to concede in those circumstances. Whatever anyone tells you there is a link between possession and goals, just ask Barcelona or Bayern Munich or indeed Man City. I really don't understand quite how and when it happened. Our possession stats were excellent under early days Hughes, we were right there, then something slipped... Some of the most organised sides in the league have some of the worst possession stats. Some of our most organised and well drilled sides relied on not having the ball if they could help it... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 28, 2018 10:01:42 GMT
I mean bar De Gea, it's no surprise to see the 'keepers from crap sides in the top 5 for this stat.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Mar 28, 2018 10:35:08 GMT
We have very limited players that are comfortable on the ball, that can hold it, have a look and make a pass. Ndiaye and allen are, cameron (hardly plays), and ireland (never plays). Who else is comfortable? I don't think Ndiaye is very comfortable on the ball at all. |
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Post by thegift on Mar 28, 2018 10:47:14 GMT
We have very limited players that are comfortable on the ball, that can hold it, have a look and make a pass. Ndiaye and allen are, cameron (hardly plays), and ireland (never plays). Who else is comfortable? I don't think Ndiaye is very comfortable on the ball at all. why? He holds the ball up well and finds a pass. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2018 11:22:20 GMT
And I note, although it goes unsaid here, most goals conceded too! I think out biggest problem is we are no longer able to get hold of the ball and keep it so we come under some heavy artillery on a regular basis and in the end you are going to concede in those circumstances. Whatever anyone tells you there is a link between possession and goals, just ask Barcelona or Bayern Munich or indeed Man City. I really don't understand quite how and when it happened. Our possession stats were excellent under early days Hughes, we were right there, then something slipped... Some of the most organised sides in the league have some of the worst possession stats. Some of our most organised and well drilled sides relied on not having the ball if they could help it... Yes but in the end and overall and on balance is it not the teams that have the ball most of the time that win most of the time? You can find a few minor exceptions in there but in the end the Premier League possession stats league table is not too far off the points table. Premier League Possession stats 17/18Note in particular Man City miles ahead on possession with 71.7% with no one else within 10% and perhaps more poignantly WBA on 40.6% and us on 42.3% bottom and 3rd from bottom respectively. With just Newcastle splitting us, I suppose you'd argue Newcastle are one of the teams benefiting from better organisation but even for them low possession means big trouble. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2018 11:25:44 GMT
I mean bar De Gea, it's no surprise to see the 'keepers from crap sides in the top 5 for this stat. You make my point for me, their possession is just 53.8% which is woeful for a Top 4 club, Mourinho has set up relatively defensively and the consequence is their goal has come under heavy fire and they have been reliant on De Gea to stay in the 2nd group chasing (or not chasing!) Man City. It just ain't a good idea not to have the ball! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 28, 2018 11:30:42 GMT
Some of the most organised sides in the league have some of the worst possession stats. Some of our most organised and well drilled sides relied on not having the ball if they could help it... Yes but in the end and overall and on balance is it not the teams that have the ball most of the time that win most of the time? You can find a few minor exceptions in there but in the end the Premier League possession stats league table is not too far off the points table. Premier League Possession stats 17/18Note in particular Man City miles ahead on possession with 71.7% with no one else within 10% and perhaps more poignantly WBA on 40.6% and us on 42.3% bottom and 3rd from bottom respectively. With just Newcastle splitting us, I suppose you'd argue Newcastle are one of the teams benefiting from better organisation but even for them low possession means big trouble. Generally (Leicester apart) but that’s more to do with the fact that you can’t score without the ball than the fact that you can’t concede without it. Leicester and Burnley’s average possession is less than 50%. Ours constantly was under TP and we were generally pretty comfortable. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2018 11:40:18 GMT
Yes but in the end and overall and on balance is it not the teams that have the ball most of the time that win most of the time? You can find a few minor exceptions in there but in the end the Premier League possession stats league table is not too far off the points table. Premier League Possession stats 17/18Note in particular Man City miles ahead on possession with 71.7% with no one else within 10% and perhaps more poignantly WBA on 40.6% and us on 42.3% bottom and 3rd from bottom respectively. With just Newcastle splitting us, I suppose you'd argue Newcastle are one of the teams benefiting from better organisation but even for them low possession means big trouble. Generally (Leicester apart) but that’s more to do with the fact that you can’t score without the ball than the fact that you can’t concede without it. Leicester and Burnley’s average possession is less than 50%. Ours constantly was under TP and we were generally pretty comfortable. Yes, I get the point, and you could say we beat Arsenal 1-0 at home this season with 22% possession but no one seriously thinks if we end up with 22% possession again at the Emirates this weekend we'll get anything other than an absolute belting. And of course Greece won the Euros in 2004 without the ball, in fact they won it with barely a goal, getting through each round either 1-0 or by dint of a penalty competition but I think it was just one of those exceptions that prove the rule. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 28, 2018 11:51:51 GMT
I don’t think it is in terms of survival - we were the blueprint for survival for years.
It certainly is if you want to win something.
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Post by tachyon on Mar 28, 2018 16:08:32 GMT
Here's a graphic of all the on target attempts Jack has faced in the Prem this season. Oldest on the left, most recent on the right. The height of the bar represents the difficulty of the potential save based on shot or header location, how hard it was hit, where on the plane of the goal it would have entered the net, if it was deflected, had swerve etc. So an expected goals of 0.1 would result in a goal around one time in ten, 0.9 is a goal 9 times out of 10. Saves are in blue, goals are in red. Attachment DeletedJack's shot stopping is around the league average after a recent spurt of positive variance. OG's by convention aren't included. |
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Post by kustokie on Mar 28, 2018 17:08:31 GMT
And I note, although it goes unsaid here, most goals conceded too! I think out biggest problem is we are no longer able to get hold of the ball and keep it so we come under some heavy artillery on a regular basis and in the end you are going to concede in those circumstances. Whatever anyone tells you there is a link between possession and goals, just ask Barcelona or Bayern Munich or indeed Man City. I really don't understand quite how and when it happened. Our possession stats were excellent under early days Hughes, we were right there, then something slipped... Some of the most organised sides in the league have some of the worst possession stats. Some of our most organised and well drilled sides relied on not having the ball if they could help it... The sum of shots saved and goals conceded would be an interesting stat because it would a good measure of how poor the defense in front of him has been. The ratio of saves to total shots on target would say how efficient he has been as a GK. |
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Post by tachyon on Mar 28, 2018 19:47:29 GMT
[/quote]The sum of shots saved and goals conceded would be an interesting stat because it would a good measure of how poor the defense in front of him has been. The ratio of saves to total shots on target would say how efficient he has been as a GK.[/quote]
Based on the quality of the 159 on target attempts Jack's faced, an average Premier League keeper would most likely let in 49 goals (excluding own goals). Jack's let in 49. So his shot stopping is bang average this season.
De Gea's expected total is 38 goals allowed. He's let in just 21. He's this season's top performer.
Next up's Pope. 22 Actual against an expected 30.
Hart's got the worst shot stopping record this season. Expected to let in 27, he's allowed 33.
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Mar 28, 2018 20:12:00 GMT
I don't think Ndiaye is very comfortable on the ball at all. why? He holds the ball up well and finds a pass. Agreed! |
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2018 20:39:26 GMT
The sum of shots saved and goals conceded would be an interesting stat because it would a good measure of how poor the defense in front of him has been. The ratio of saves to total shots on target would say how efficient he has been as a GK.[/quote] Based on the quality of the 159 on target attempts Jack's faced, an average Premier League keeper would most likely let in 49 goals (excluding own goals). Jack's let in 49. So his shot stopping is bang average this season.
De Gea's expected total is 38 goals allowed. He's let in just 21. He's this season's top performer. Next up's Pope. 22 Actual against an expected 30. Hart's got the worst shot stopping record this season. Expected to let in 27, he's allowed 33. [/quote] That feels right to me, he may be among England's top 2 or 3 but in Prem terms where you have some of the finest keepers in the world game I would say he is about average. |
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Post by tachyon on Mar 28, 2018 21:00:06 GMT
Here's the shot stopping performance ratings for every Premier League keeper in 2017/18. First column's the average number of goals an average keeper would expect to concede given the quality and quantity of attempts each keeper has faced. Second column is how many each keeper has actually allowed. Basically, good shot stoppers at the top, average ones in the middle and those having a poor year at the bottom. Attachment Deleted |
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Post by rawli on Mar 28, 2018 23:07:03 GMT
Here's the shot stopping performance ratings for every Premier League keeper in 2017/18. First column's the average number of goals an average keeper would expect to concede given the quality and quantity of attempts each keeper has faced. Second column is how many each keeper has actually allowed. Basically, good shot stoppers at the top, average ones in the middle and those having a poor year at the bottom. View AttachmentWho'd have thought that a table of premier league shot stoppers would have the good ones at the top, the average ones in the middle and the poor ones at the bottom. Doesn't add up somehow. |
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Post by kjpt140v on Mar 28, 2018 23:49:36 GMT
If a keeper has a thousand shots at him and makes five hundred saves and a second keeper had six hundred shots at him and saves four hundred of them, who is the most successful keeper?
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Post by kustokie on Mar 29, 2018 0:23:11 GMT
Here's the shot stopping performance ratings for every Premier League keeper in 2017/18. First column's the average number of goals an average keeper would expect to concede given the quality and quantity of attempts each keeper has faced. Second column is how many each keeper has actually allowed. Basically, good shot stoppers at the top, average ones in the middle and those having a poor year at the bottom. Who'd have thought that a table of premier league shot stoppers would have the good ones at the top, the average ones in the middle and the poor ones at the bottom. Doesn't add up somehow. Fake news! Interesting statistics - Joe Hart is worst in the league and still in the England squad. Butters and Bego have identical records. |
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Mar 30, 2018 9:27:25 GMT
With all the tonkings we have taken, we could have had a derby style season without him 😭
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