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Post by PotterLog on Mar 26, 2018 17:56:17 GMT
We've never really had this "pleasure" have we? One of the reasons relegation is such a daunting prospect is that you just don't get the feeling we're going to be bouncing back up any time soon... when a team like Newcastle or West Ham or even WBA go down, there must be a reasonable sense of confidence that they'll get their act together and return sooner rather than later..? For us it's 23 years in the wilderness, then a decade in the top flight... how long till we're back?  If someone offered you being a yo-yo team for, say, the next ten years, spending roughly equal amounts of time in the Prem and Champ, generally battling relegation the years we're up but usually doing well in the Champ, throw a play-off or two in there maybe... would you take it? |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 26, 2018 18:07:03 GMT
We've never really had this "pleasure" have we? One of the reasons relegation is such a daunting prospect is that you just don't get the feeling we're going to be bouncing back up any time soon... when a team like Newcastle or West Ham or even WBA go down, there must be a reasonable sense of confidence that they'll get their act together and return sooner rather than later..? For us it's 23 years in the wilderness, then a decade in the top flight... how long till we're back? If someone offered you being a yo-yo team for, say, the next ten years, spending roughly equal amounts of time in the Prem and Champ, generally battling relegation the years we're up but usually doing well in the Champ, throw a play-off or two in there maybe... would you take it? Probably yes. That's my fear for relegation that we're stuck for another quarter century and also that it doesn't stop there a la Portsmouth, Coventry etc. |
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Post by potterblade on Mar 26, 2018 18:14:11 GMT
I want to see us progressing all the time even in small ways. Being a yo-yo team is the opposite of that so NO THANKS I think it would do me in. A season like this every other year? Pfft.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Mar 26, 2018 18:19:32 GMT
We have had a superb run in the top flight. Was never gonna last forever. The club need to wake up and we can blast back. Too much paranoia about this 23 years in the wilderness. I know that's where we were before but we are a different club now. The support base is also bigger than it has been for a long time. I just hope we rip the whole thing apart and stop sleepwalking around like fucking zombies. Time for change. If things don't then the paranoia may be justified.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Mar 26, 2018 18:24:02 GMT
No i want us to be a stable premier league club like Everton with the odd scare but no real danger & the odd flirt with the top six. That is not to much to ask for & was within grasp 2 seasons ago what has happened at our club is criminal & the buck stops right at the top as all this was easily unavoidable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 18:25:51 GMT
I never thought 66 would be our only world cup or that 72 would be our only major trophy but I'm sorry to say that's how it's looking. At least in my lifetime.
I saw the programme on the Dutch and how their football has dramatically declined and really felt sorry for them, like us the victim of the modern game and it's reliance on money. All pretence of a competitive sport has gone, money is the King.
As for an up and down club, no thanks. We need to find our level at the moment , solidify then go again for the next level. But with a clear plan of how we are going to stay there. In short a plan of GROWTH.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 26, 2018 18:35:01 GMT
It would just be nice to be going down knowing that there was reasonable cause for optimism about the immediate future  |
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Post by marwood on Mar 26, 2018 18:42:52 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions
Macari at the helm
Steino ripping up the record books
Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum
Trophies, trips to wembley
Hardly the wilderness
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Post by owdestokie2 on Mar 26, 2018 18:48:08 GMT
We've never really had this "pleasure" have we? One of the reasons relegation is such a daunting prospect is that you just don't get the feeling we're going to be bouncing back up any time soon... when a team like Newcastle or West Ham or even WBA go down, there must be a reasonable sense of confidence that they'll get their act together and return sooner rather than later..? For us it's 23 years in the wilderness, then a decade in the top flight... how long till we're back? If someone offered you being a yo-yo team for, say, the next ten years, spending roughly equal amounts of time in the Prem and Champ, generally battling relegation the years we're up but usually doing well in the Champ, throw a play-off or two in there maybe... would you take it? “would you take it?” A resounding NO. That’s failure |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 26, 2018 19:04:55 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions Macari at the helm Steino ripping up the record books Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum Trophies, trips to wembley Hardly the wilderness You make a very valid point but It was still the third division.  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 26, 2018 19:20:05 GMT
I want to see this club enter the 21st century with how it thinks.
We're so backward it's beyond belief.
It will take a lot of change and it's change I don't think the current owners want or a lot of our fans that are over 40 want either. But it needs to happen.
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Post by Gods on Mar 26, 2018 22:54:07 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions Macari at the helm Steino ripping up the record books Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum Trophies, trips to wembley Hardly the wilderness You make a very valid point but It was still the third division. I must admit I don't rejoice in that era quite like some folks do on here, I could never quite shift from my head the nagging thought that this club I first supported as a top flight club twice playing in Europe as a result of our LEAGUE POSITION finish was now plying it's trade in Division 3, normally the preserve of Port Vale. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 26, 2018 22:57:54 GMT
I want to see this club enter the 21st century with how it thinks.
We're so backward it's beyond belief. It will take a lot of change and it's change I don't think the current owners want or a lot of our fans that are over 40 want either. But it needs to happen. Sorry to be thick but what on earth does that mean?! Quite apart from the fact that we entered the 21st century 18 long years ago, how does one enter a new century with how you think ?! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 26, 2018 23:01:23 GMT
I want to see this club enter the 21st century with how it thinks.
We're so backward it's beyond belief. It will take a lot of change and it's change I don't think the current owners want or a lot of our fans that are over 40 want either. But it needs to happen. Sorry to be thick but what on earth does that mean?! Quite apart from the fact that we entered the 21st century 18 long years ago, how does one enter a new century with how you think ?! I'd say as a club we're stuck in 1975 or 1993 depending on where you look. |
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Post by riproaring on Mar 26, 2018 23:05:09 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions Macari at the helm Steino ripping up the record books Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum Trophies, trips to wembley Hardly the wilderness I agree with the times but was I was 22 at the time not 46, is it like looking through rose tinted glasses. The players we have even now are miles ahead of the majority we had in the 80s and 90s as for playing the vile I’d rather have balls put in a vice, they’re still dining out on van der laans goal at the Vic. They’ve even started to sing the wonder of you again on my Kareoke Ive removed it now. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 26, 2018 23:11:31 GMT
Sorry to be thick but what on earth does that mean?! Quite apart from the fact that we entered the 21st century 18 long years ago, how does one enter a new century with how you think ?! I'd say as a club we're stuck in 1975 or 1993 depending on where you look. Okay I think I get it now, you mean we have never, metaphorically at least, entered the 21st century. If we are to be 'stuck' anywhere then I'd take 75 over 93, we were the 5th best team in all of England in 1975. In 93, for all the unbridled enthusiasm of the Macari'ites we were twatting about in the 2nd division! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 26, 2018 23:15:43 GMT
I'd say as a club we're stuck in 1975 or 1993 depending on where you look. Okay I think I get it now, you mean we have never, metaphorically at least, entered the 21st century. If we are to be 'stuck' anywhere then I'd take 75 over 93, we were the 5th best team in all of England in 1975. In 93, for all the unbridled enthusiasm of the Macari'ites we were twatting about in the 2nd division! It would be lovely but football has moved on so far from where are. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 5:47:09 GMT
We've struggled to sign players of real premiership quality while we were in it this time, (if we had, we wouldn't be in this position now) because of transfer prices and wages, if we ever return the prices will have increased further.
We wouldn't pay it now, so why would we pay it in the future when they go up even further.
The only way we might sustain another couple of years is if we get a manager next season who's going to be with us and backed for a few years that will mould a team of 22-24yr olds who have the talent to hold their own in the prem until the best players get picked off then the cycle starts again.
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Post by marwood on Mar 27, 2018 9:52:53 GMT
You make a very valid point but It was still the third division. I must admit I don't rejoice in that era quite like some folks do on here, I could never quite shift from my head the nagging thought that this club I first supported as a top flight club twice playing in Europe as a result of our LEAGUE POSITION finish was now plying it's trade in Division 3, normally the preserve of Port Vale. I hear you. And I do have rose tinted glasses on. Its the era I started going down in earnest week in week out, so it will always be special. Would we have seen so many local lads make good in the 1st team in the top flight? -Beeston, Ware, Shawry A lot of the away grounds I visited in that era are now non league - Wrexham, Torquay, Tranmere, Stockport, Leyton O - now that is the proper wilderness |
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Post by kentpotter on Mar 27, 2018 10:14:30 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions Macari at the helm Steino ripping up the record books Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum Trophies, trips to wembley Hardly the wilderness I can see your point, and I too had some cracking days out following Stoke at this time. On the downside, we didn't half have some wankers following us and dragging the name of the club through the mud. I for one don't want to be marched, surrounded by police and horses, from station to ground and back ever again! |
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Post by mrred on Mar 27, 2018 10:21:25 GMT
Spoke to a few Newcastle fans that said the Championship should be a fucking cakewalk for any relegated teams, unless you've got deep problems like Sunderland. With a bit of pace, we'd be fine I think.
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2018 11:27:46 GMT
I must admit I don't rejoice in that era quite like some folks do on here, I could never quite shift from my head the nagging thought that this club I first supported as a top flight club twice playing in Europe as a result of our LEAGUE POSITION finish was now plying it's trade in Division 3, normally the preserve of Port Vale. I hear you. And I do have rose tinted glasses on. Its the era I started going down in earnest week in week out, so it will always be special. Would we have seen so many local lads make good in the 1st team in the top flight? -Beeston, Ware, Shawry A lot of the away grounds I visited in that era are now non league - Wrexham, Torquay, Tranmere, Stockport, Leyton O - now that is the proper wilderness Fair enough, good post. I first cut my teeth on Alan Hudson and Jimmy Greenhoff and I think we managed 2 successive 5th place finishes. I was young enough and naive enough to think that was how things would always be! |
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2018 11:29:49 GMT
Spoke to a few Newcastle fans that said the Championship should be a fucking cakewalk for any relegated teams, unless you've got deep problems like Sunderland. With a bit of pace, we'd be fine I think. Tell him you agree on Sunderland but you haven't noticed Hull City or Middlesborough doing much 'cake walking' of it this season either  |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Mar 27, 2018 12:27:59 GMT
You say 23 years in the wilderness but some of the best times I have had following stoke were in the old second and third divisions Macari at the helm Steino ripping up the record books Midlands derbies against the Vale, Baggies, Derby, Brum Trophies, trips to wembley Hardly the wilderness I often hear stuff like this and I can understand it because I quite enjoyed these days too. But I think a lot if the nostalgia for the Macari days is just that, nostalgia. Days when we were young and free, terraces were still there etc. It's as much nostalgia for our youth than anything else. There were great times. Stein's still the best striker I've ever seen at Stoke. Wembley, 2-0 win at Vale etc. But let's face it, most of those wilderness years were miserable as we watched our club fall a long way behind our peers and seemingly condemned to forever yo yo between the second and third tiers. We'll miss the Premier League and the respectability it brings if we get stuck down there again. |
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Post by marwood on Mar 27, 2018 14:00:40 GMT
The one former league club which really shocks me as to how far it has fallen is Stockport. We used to have some right good ding dongs with them.
According to wikipedia, there was a Football Fans Census in 2003, which cited "Burnley, Manchester City and Stoke City as Stockport County fans' biggest rivals"
Im not a big one for schadenfreude, but after the Jim Gannon debacle, they cannot fall far enough for my liking
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 27, 2018 14:12:15 GMT
The only crumb of comfort I can summon at this juncture is that we're a hugely different club to the one that came up in 2008, and crucially a lot different from the club that went down in 1985 in terms of top tier management. I know we've had our problems with the board this year and before and rightfully so, but in 1985 we were the definition of a crisis club, this is just a club that has been mis managed by the powers that be. A sharp refocusing could help us no end in the long run.
Or we could crash and burn for 23 years again.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 27, 2018 14:13:37 GMT
The one former league club which really shocks me as to how far it has fallen is Stockport. We used to have some right good ding dongs with them. According to wikipedia, there was a Football Fans Census in 2003, which cited "Burnley, Manchester City and Stoke City as Stockport County fans' biggest rivals" Im not a big one for schadenfreude, but after the Jim Gannon debacle, they cannot fall far enough for my liking Ironically, our lowest points in the early 90s provided us with some of our most memorable heroes of the past 50 years. No third tier, no Biggins, no Steino, no Gleghorn, no Macari. Obviously we'd have had other heroes, but it seems odd if that part of our history was not there. |
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Post by rambler on Mar 27, 2018 21:46:20 GMT
The way I see it is that we haven’t been very good for a long time now, playing boring football with no plan. The last time I truly enjoyed a Stoke season was the FA Cup run, (Europe was fun but we were pretty lucky with the draw and we were shite in the league). Since then it’s just been one or two good performances surrounded by rubbish. If we go down it could be a real opportunity for a refresh because we aren’t getting anywhere as we are. I wouldn’t like to be a yo-yo team in terms of consecutive years but I do think we can benefit by getting rid of the vast deadweight we currently have.
Oh and by the way, Lambert doesn’t fit into this refresh in anyway, he would just lead to more disappointment, someone like Potter or the Bristol city coach on the other hand, that’s a different story.
Final moan, it’s time to start using the famous academy we’ve been hearing about for five years, you know, that category 1 road to self sufficiency thing that apparently exists!
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