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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 1:14:15 GMT
I'll start this by just pointing out that, I posted this in a different thread but by the time I had finished taking the time and effort in constructing and editing my post, I realised the thread had been moved to the shit bin. To be fair the original post in that thread was shit bin material so fair enough on the part of the mods. I'm creating a new thread fully aware that this is possibly egotistical of me to do so, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway because I think it's a nice piece of writing and a well thought out reply to Gods' question. ----- I'd like to know what happened to all the people who referred to anyone back in October who had the temerity to suggest all might not be well and we may not be about to enjoy another stellar season as 'knicker wetters' ? I'm here still. I was adamant that we needed to say thankyou and goodbye to Hughes at the end of last season, bring in a new man and then give him a full pre-season to assess, improve and mould the squad. The start of our demise had become apparent to me over a season before, around the time when Butland got injured and it became clear that the two backup keepers were inadequate replacements. (no offence to Given who was a top keeper in his day, which had clearly long since passed) That was the first time alarm bells went off in my head as to the sheer ineptitude the management team were capable of. I still maintain that Grant's form after arriving in a panic the season after was not a stroke of genius, it was just outrageously good fortune. In a sense I wish that the Grant transfer had not gone so well. If we had stayed up by a whisker last year then maybe Coates would've been more likely to see what most of us had spotted long before, and wouldn't have dithered so fatally. The scary thing is that, given his comments a few weeks before he finally did get rid of Hughes, it seems highly likely now that the thought of sacking the old boss had never really entered his consciousness until after his now (and forever) infamous "I don't see what all the fuss is about?" comment. However, having said all that, we seemed to have made some fairly solid signings last summer. There were still some glaring deficiencies in the squad, but we'd (in my eyes) significantly strengthened the defence, and we were looking forward to having Butland back in goal for the majority of the season, having seen him slowly re-introduced at the tail end of last. (Butland has had a poor year by his own standards IMO, but nobody could've predicted that) We also saw Hughes increase the number of pre-season fixtures, which was a fantastic early indication that he had learnt from previous errors. As a result of this we started this season much stronger than we had previously under MH. The early signs were fantastic, and I now look back in complete bewilderment and horror at the feeling of relief I felt when we had just turned Arsenal over, or the feeling of pride at having just matched a very strong Man United team. I was convinced at that point that we were all set to enjoy a much more comfortable campaign. The great irony is that, considering all the atrocious starts during Hughes' time as manager, it is the season where we put that bad habit to bed and started brightly that has turned out to be the one where relegation is a reality for all but the most deluded of optimists. So in answer to your original question, yes I'm here, and yes I had seen enough by October to believe that we weren't in for the season we've ended up having to endure, but I don't feel like a fool because I clearly know enough about football to have recognised Hughes had to leave during the summer. As did many others. There were debates on the topic towards the end of last season. The most unpopular reply was always that we were deluded if we didn't realise Hughes would be leading us into the current campaign. I suspect that the people replying to those threads, who had the audacity to crush our dreams about what sort of exciting new boss Coates had his eye on, were actually just as frustrated and frightened at the prospect of Hughes remaining in charge as any of us daydreamers were. Time has sadly revealed that their temerity was fully justified. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 18, 2018 1:24:31 GMT
Nice work, certainly deserves a thread of it's own and not the shit bin!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 18, 2018 1:27:59 GMT
Nice work, certainly deserves a thread of it's own and not the shit bin! Wait until the thought police see it! 😁 |
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Post by Gods on Mar 18, 2018 1:50:14 GMT
Nice work, certainly deserves a thread of it's own and not the shit bin! Wait until the thought police see it! 😁 I can only see a short shelf life for this one, ho-hum! |
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Post by 3putts on Mar 18, 2018 2:06:39 GMT
you must all be so pleased with yourselves. I think you should erect a statue to benji
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 18, 2018 2:09:26 GMT
you must all be so pleased with yourselves. I think you should erect a statue to benji Why would we be pleased with ourselves? Seeing it coming makes it worse. It was so damn easy avoid. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 2:30:25 GMT
On the subject of Benji, before we all start re-writing history and hailing him as some sort of prophet, he'd been saying the same thing year upon year for several years before his predictions finally came to fruition. His argument was always that Hughes was a good manager with his arms tied due to criminal under-investment. Whilst there have been some clear cases of penny-pinching and appalling decision making from Coates, I truly believe that Hughes and his transfer team received more than enough backing for this puke-inducing mess to have been easily avoided.
Benji is no prophet. He truly is the epitome of a broken clock, and I'm really not looking forward to seeing people be so easily fooled into believing otherwise over the coming weeks and months, least not by the eternally pessimistic rotter himself. I mean, let's not forget that the guy can barely construct coherent sentences together. It's some leap to now suggest that he possesses an intellect that allowed him to see what what was coming long before the vast majority.
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Post by cheekycheddleton on Mar 18, 2018 2:35:59 GMT
i was saying for years that hughes would take us down. for me not a good manager he was always crap.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 18, 2018 2:48:28 GMT
On the subject of Benji, before we all start re-writing history and hailing him as some sort of prophet, he'd been saying the same thing year upon year for several years before his predictions finally came to fruition. His argument was always that Hughes was a good manager with his arms tied due to criminal under-investment. Whilst there have been some clear cases of penny-pinching and appalling decision making from Coates, I truly believe that Hughes and his transfer team received more than enough backing for this puke-inducing mess to have been easily avoided. Benji is no prophet. He truly is the epitome of a broken clock, and I'm really not looking forward to seeing people be so easily fooled into believing otherwise over the coming weeks and months, least not by the eternally pessimistic rotter himself. I mean, let's not forget that the guy can barely construct coherent sentences together. It's some leap to now suggest that he possesses an intellect that allowed him to see what what was coming long before the vast majority. Benji was droning on for years. A stopped clock is right twice a day. If you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of keyboards they will eventually type out hey hey we're the monkees. Correct spelling too. We might have stayed in the Prem until 2027 and when relegation came he'd be saying he'd predicted it. Despite being miles off the mark for so long. Also our relegation is less to do with what he goes on about and more to do with the actual football. You don't win or lose games in boardrooms. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 18, 2018 3:12:40 GMT
On the subject of Benji, before we all start re-writing history and hailing him as some sort of prophet, he'd been saying the same thing year upon year for several years before his predictions finally came to fruition. His argument was always that Hughes was a good manager with his arms tied due to criminal under-investment. Whilst there have been some clear cases of penny-pinching and appalling decision making from Coates, I truly believe that Hughes and his transfer team received more than enough backing for this puke-inducing mess to have been easily avoided. Benji is no prophet. He truly is the epitome of a broken clock, and I'm really not looking forward to seeing people be so easily fooled into believing otherwise over the coming weeks and months, least not by the eternally pessimistic rotter himself. I mean, let's not forget that the guy can barely construct coherent sentences together. It's some leap to now suggest that he possesses an intellect that allowed him to see what what was coming long before the vast majority. Benji was droning on for years. A stopped cluck is right twice a day. If you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of keyboards they will eventually type out hey hey we're the monkees. Correct spelling too. We might have stayed in the Prem until 2027 and when relegation came he'd be saying he'd predicted it. Despite being miles off the mark for so long. Also our relegation is less to do with what he goes on about and more to do with the actual football. You don't win or lose games in boardrooms. If you look i have made a couple of very positive posts about how we respond to this situation , I wish you detractors would make your mind up but at leat your correct my view has always been hughes was decent undone by chronic under investment , and I’ll hold to that , think lambert is proving it as he goes backwards even with two decent additions . We are where we are what’s key now is the causes are removed and we invest considerably in our future it’s going to require huge nerve to invest when income is destroyed but it’s the only way and the worlds favourite online gambling co can comfortably afford it . You only have to look at Sunderland tonight to see where we will be if our answer is to sell the best and free transfer , loan and muddle through |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 3:28:55 GMT
Benji was droning on for years. A stopped cluck is right twice a day. If you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of keyboards they will eventually type out hey hey we're the monkees. Correct spelling too. We might have stayed in the Prem until 2027 and when relegation came he'd be saying he'd predicted it. Despite being miles off the mark for so long. Also our relegation is less to do with what he goes on about and more to do with the actual football. You don't win or lose games in boardrooms. If you look i have made a couple of very positive posts about how we respond to this situation , I wish you detractors would make your mind up but at leat your correct my view has always been hughes was decent undone by chronic under investment , and I’ll hold to that , think lambert is proving it as he goes backwards even with two decent additions . We are where we are what’s key now is the causes are removed and we invest considerably in our future it’s going to require huge nerve to invest when income is destroyed but it’s the only way and the worlds favourite online gambling co can comfortably afford it . You only have to look at Sunderland tonight to see where we will be if our answer is to sell the best and free transfer , loan and muddle through I don't think we've gone backwards under Lambert. I think Lambert is a poor manager at this level, capable of organising a team in disarray somewhat but incapable of the tactical nous, quick-thinking and squad assessment capabilities that could've prevented the shit show we saw today. Nobody wanted Lambert here but we gave the man the benefit of the doubt. The opening game against Huddersfield has, with the help of some snippets of bad luck, proven to be a false dawn. It seems a bloody long time ago now. On performances alone however, you have to say that we've improved since Lambert came into the club. That's not to say that Coates and co aren't culpable in this mess and Hughes is solely to blame. If Coates had truly wanted to bring in a more promising replacement than Lambert, then I have no doubt in my mind he could've done with a fair amount of ease. If ever there was a time for him to put the self-sufficiency model to one side and slap his balls on the table, it was the most recent managerial recruitment process. Having said all that, I think you're completely wrong where you place the blame and I believe Hughes' inability to rebuild the ageing core of the squad he inherited from Pulis is the primary reason we're going down. I also believe that the inheritance of a solid core is where Hughes flourishes managerially, as he did when he added flair and more expansive tactics to our rock solid core. It pains me to say it, but it seems likely that Hughes will be a premiership manager next year whilst we languish in the championship, and that makes me fucking furious because it's so unfair. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 3:38:01 GMT
I'm no mathematician but are we actually down already, or could we still stay up.
FFS people... Even JoeinOz has thrown in the towel.... And having met him I know that that is out of character....I will not be saying " We are down" until we are...
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 18, 2018 3:44:51 GMT
I'm no mathematician but are we actually down already, or could we still stay up. FFS people... Even JoeinOz has thrown in the towel.... And having met him I know that that is out of character....I will not be saying " We are down" until we are... Yeah my towel is thrown.  I just hope and hope somehow we can conjure up something. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 3:47:09 GMT
I'm no mathematician but are we actually down already, or could we still stay up. FFS people... Even JoeinOz has thrown in the towel.... And having met him I know that that is out of character....I will not be saying " We are down" until we are... I get where you're coming from mate but I'm resigned to relegation after the catastrophic result today. It's almost a way to protect myself from the pain of unfulfilled hope. I'm not a pessimist where football is concerned, never have been and never will be, but today was the first game that was truly must-win. I said beforehand that, should we lose today, then to give ourselves genuine hope going into the final fixtures we'll need to pick up 4 points from the Arsenal and Spurs games. Even if we do that we've still got a great deal of work to do. It just seems too tall of an order and feels like we're entering "great escape" territory. Giving up hope is a kindness to oneself more than anything. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 18, 2018 3:48:34 GMT
I'll start this by just pointing out that, I posted this in a different thread but by the time I had finished taking the time and effort in constructing and editing my post, I realised the thread had been moved to the shit bin. To be fair the original post in that thread was shit bin material so fair enough on the part of the mods. I'm creating a new thread fully aware that this is possibly egotistical of me to do so, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway because I think it's a nice piece of writing and a well thought out reply to Gods' question. ----- I'd like to know what happened to all the people who referred to anyone back in October who had the temerity to suggest all might not be well and we may not be about to enjoy another stellar season as 'knicker wetters' ? I'm here still. I was adamant that we needed to say thankyou and goodbye to Hughes at the end of last season, bring in a new man and then give him a full pre-season to assess, improve and mould the squad. The start of our demise had become apparent to me over a season before, around the time when Butland got injured and it became clear that the two backup keepers were inadequate replacements. (no offence to Given who was a top keeper in his day, which had clearly long since passed) That was the first time alarm bells went off in my head as to the sheer ineptitude the management team were capable of. I still maintain that Grant's form after arriving in a panic the season after was not a stroke of genius, it was just outrageously good fortune. In a sense I wish that the Grant transfer had not gone so well. If we had stayed up by a whisker last year then maybe Coates would've been more likely to see what most of us had spotted long before, and wouldn't have dithered so fatally. The scary thing is that, given his comments a few weeks before he finally did get rid of Hughes, it seems highly likely now that the thought of sacking the old boss had never really entered his consciousness until after his now (and forever) infamous "I don't see what all the fuss is about?" comment. However, having said all that, we seemed to have made some fairly solid signings last summer. There were still some glaring deficiencies in the squad, but we'd (in my eyes) significantly strengthened the defence, and we were looking forward to having Butland back in goal for the majority of the season, having seen him slowly re-introduced at the tail end of last. (Butland has had a poor year by his own standards IMO, but nobody could've predicted that) We also saw Hughes increase the number of pre-season fixtures, which was a fantastic early indication that he had learnt from previous errors. As a result of this we started this season much stronger than we had previously under MH. The early signs were fantastic, and I now look back in complete bewilderment and horror at the feeling of relief I felt when we had just turned Arsenal over, or the feeling of pride at having just matched a very strong Man United team. I was convinced at that point that we were all set to enjoy a much more comfortable campaign. The great irony is that, considering all the atrocious starts during Hughes' time as manager, it is the season where we put that bad habit to bed and started brightly that has turned out to be the one where relegation is a reality for all but the most deluded of optimists. So in answer to your original question, yes I'm here, and yes I had seen enough by October to believe that we weren't in for the season we've ended up having to endure, but I don't feel like a fool because I clearly know enough about football to have recognised Hughes had to leave during the summer. As did many others. There were debates on the topic towards the end of last season. The most unpopular reply was always that we were deluded if we didn't realise Hughes would be leading us into the current campaign. I suspect that the people replying to those threads, who had the audacity to crush our dreams about what sort of exciting new boss Coates had his eye on, were actually just as frustrated and frightened at the prospect of Hughes remaining in charge as any of us daydreamers were. Time has sadly revealed that their temerity was fully justified. I really can't at all figure out why you've quoted the post that you have as a platform for your rant. From where I'm sitting, you've seemed to have fundamentally missed God's point. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 3:55:15 GMT
I really can't at all figure out why you've quoted the post that you have as a platform for your rant. From where I'm sitting, you've seemed to have fundamentally missed God's point. He asked where the people are now who were calling all those predicting trouble ahead "knicker wetters". I started my "rant" (it's not a rant at all btw) by saying "I'm here still". Indicating that I am one of those who was shouting down the pessimistic voices as "knicker wetters" early on in the season. I then went on to explain why I felt inclined to do so at that time. On the subject of fundamentally missing points, you probably need to look closer to home. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 18, 2018 4:04:35 GMT
I really can't at all figure out why you've quoted the post that you have as a platform for your rant. From where I'm sitting, you've seemed to have fundamentally missed God's point. He asked where the people are now who were calling all those predicting trouble ahead "knicker wetters". I started my "rant" (it's not a rant at all btw) by saying "I'm here still". Indicating that I am one of those who was shouting down the pessimistic voices as "knicker wetters" early on in the season. I then went on to explain why I felt inclined to do so at that time. On the subject of fundamentally missing points, you probably need to look closer to home. Yep, you've completely missed his point. I actually agree with everything you've said in your 'rant' and indeed, I too was equally as vocal at the time but really, you need to read back what he said, it wasn't him that you needed to be quoting. He was calling out the people who were ACCUSING people of being knicker wetters, of which you clearly WEREN'T one, ergo you clearly couldn't be ... "here still." |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 4:11:52 GMT
He asked where the people are now who were calling all those predicting trouble ahead "knicker wetters". I started my "rant" (it's not a rant at all btw) by saying "I'm here still". Indicating that I am one of those who was shouting down the pessimistic voices as "knicker wetters" early on in the season. I then went on to explain why I felt inclined to do so at that time. On the subject of fundamentally missing points, you probably need to look closer to home. Yep, you've completely missed his point. I actually agree with everything you've said in your 'rant' and indeed, I too was equally as vocal at the time but really, you need to read back what he said, it wasn't him that you needed to be quoting. Explain to me then please because I can't see what else his post could mean. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 18, 2018 4:19:20 GMT
Yep, you've completely missed his point. I actually agree with everything you've said in your 'rant' and indeed, I too was equally as vocal at the time but really, you need to read back what he said, it wasn't him that you needed to be quoting. Explain to me then please because I can't see what else his post could mean. He was calling out the people who were ACCUSING people of being knicker wetters, of which you clearly WEREN'T one, ergo you clearly couldn't be ... "here still." |
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 18, 2018 4:33:30 GMT
Deep down no one would have wanted to truly contemplate what could’ve happened.....we would’ve wanted to deny, avoid, shy away from the thought of relegation. For those who knicker wetted early (is that correct grammar?) there were as many positive in the future. There are no winners here on who called it first...just losers like all of us as fans. I suppose the media were the real alarm bells from a neutral point of view but Coates and Co. did such a good job of talking them down or pulling the wool over their eyes, it was too late to react.
We are all hurting and maybe the in the future we may get some answers on just what went wrong (I doubt it personally.....I’m still waiting to find out what happened with David James!).....but the last thing we need to do as supporters is dick measure on who predicted what. We are where we are and how we move forward is the important thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 4:34:01 GMT
Explain to me then please because I can't see what else his post could mean. He was calling out the people who were accusing people of BEING knicker wetters, of which you clearly WEREN'T one, ergo you clearly couldn't be ... "here still." I was one of the people accusing the pessimists of being knicker wetters. I got his post completely. My post was an explanation of why I felt we were due for a good season based on what we'd seen so far in October. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 18, 2018 4:40:29 GMT
He was calling out the people who were accusing people of BEING knicker wetters, of which you clearly WEREN'T one, ergo you clearly couldn't be ... "here still." I was one of the people accusing the pessimists of being knicker wetters. I got his post completely. My post was an explanation of why I felt we were due for a good season based on what we'd seen so far in October. How on earth were you accusing people of being knicker wetters, if you yourself thought that Hughes should have been sacked in the summer? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 4:49:12 GMT
I was one of the people accusing the pessimists of being knicker wetters. I got his post completely. My post was an explanation of why I felt we were due for a good season based on what we'd seen so far in October. How on earth were you accusing people of being knicker wetters, if you yourself thought that Hughes should have been sacked in the summer? Because after the signings we made, the extended pre-season and the early season results and performances (beating a top-6 side, something we hadn't done for the entirety of the previous campaign, plus the 2-2 draw against Man United where we played well and showed great spirit) I came to the conclusion that my judgement was inferior to the judgement of the chairman. My faith in Hughes was restored and I believed I had seen more than enough to know we were in for a comfortable season, and an improvement on the previous year especially in matches against elite clubs. As bad as things were under Hughes, I never dared to imagine it would get as bad and as toxic as it did towards the end of his reign. We were still solid against our peers last season. I didn't want him gone because I felt keeping him was a death sentence, I just felt that there were realistic managers out there who would be able to do a much better job with the same resources. In the same way we signed Shaqiri despite people believing him to be way above our level, I felt we could attract a manager of similar calabre who could rectify many of the issues that had emerged under Hughes. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 18, 2018 4:55:48 GMT
How on earth were you accusing people of being knicker wetters, if you yourself thought that Hughes should have been sacked in the summer? Because after the signings we made, the extended pre-season and the early season results and performances (beating a top-6 side, something we hadn't done for the entirety of the previous campaign, plus the 2-2 draw against Man United where we played well and showed great spirit) I came to the conclusion that my judgement was inferior to the judgement of the chairman. My faith in Hughes was restored and I believed I had seen more than enough to know we were in for a comfortable season, and an improvement on the previous year especially in matches against elite clubs. As bad as things were under Hughes, I never dared to imagine it would get as bad and as toxic as it did towards the end of his reign. We were still solid against our peers last season. I didn't want him gone because I felt keeping him was a death sentence, I just felt that there were realistic managers out there who would be able to do a much better job with the same resources. Fair do's, my bad then, you should have trusted your original instincts ... you knew better than uncle Pete after all! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 5:03:34 GMT
you knew better than uncle Pete after all! Sadly. 😭 |
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Post by wuzza on Mar 18, 2018 6:34:27 GMT
Deep down no one would have wanted to truly contemplate what could’ve happened.....we would’ve wanted to deny, avoid, shy away from the thought of relegation. For those who knicker wetted early (is that correct grammar?) there were as many positive in the future. There are no winners here on who called it first...just losers like all of us as fans. I suppose the media were the real alarm bells from a neutral point of view but Coates and Co. did such a good job of talking them down or pulling the wool over their eyes, it was too late to react. We are all hurting and maybe the in the future we may get some answers on just what went wrong (I doubt it personally.....I’m still waiting to find out what happened with David James!).....but the last thing we need to do as supporters is dick measure on who predicted what. We are where we are and how we move forward is the important thing. If we do get answers it will be a first. In reality what we will get is a lot of platitudes about ‘that’s football’ and how competitive the PL is. What we will also get is a lot of guff about not having the advantage of hindsight but in reality a lot of the problems have been plain to see for an awful long time. Strangely those people who pointed them out were often pilloried as being unnecessarily pessimistic and generally knowing nothing about anything. |
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Post by chipsaway on Mar 18, 2018 6:41:39 GMT
We're not down yet, knicker wetters.
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Post by blackpoolred on Mar 18, 2018 7:12:30 GMT
However, having said all that, we seemed to have made some fairly solid signings last summer. There were still some glaring deficiencies in the squad, but we'd (in my eyes) significantly strengthened the defence, and we were looking forward to having Butland back in goal for the majority of the season, having seen him slowly re-introduced at the tail end of last. (Butland has had a poor year by his own standards IMO, but nobody could've predicted that) Not sure how we arrived at this. We ended the season with Indi and Shawcross as the main central defenders and in the pre-season added Zouma on loan from Chelski - that was it! We needed to replace and improve on Pieters or at the very least get some competition and backup and failed to do so and we started the season with no viable right-back and with our centre-forward playing in that position - Murphy said on MOD that it was a bizarre decision to start the season with your centre-forward as your preferred RB - I think bizarre does not cover it. Defence is also not just about defenders but a unit and central midfielders too, of which we desperately needed some dynamism and pace - we got Fletcher In fact when Hughes left it was so glaringly obvious that we needed left/right backs and central mid that even the clown backroom staff at stoke had gone out and got 1 of each within a couple of weeks. |
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Post by cheekycheddleton on Mar 18, 2018 7:17:18 GMT
We're not down yet, knicker wetters. we are mate |
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 18, 2018 7:57:39 GMT
I'm no mathematician but are we actually down already, or could we still stay up. FFS people... Even JoeinOz has thrown in the towel.... And having met him I know that that is out of character....I will not be saying " We are down" until we are... I’m with you it’s not over till it’s over |
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I just hope and hope somehow we can conjure up something. 
